Casino Complaints and Casinomeister's role in 2021

Video_Poker_Pro

Experienced Member
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Dec 3, 2020
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Sweden
The forum, the complaining, the kyc, the sow.. how can you still ok with promoting
Best English Mother Fucker Do You Speak GIFs | Gfycat
 

shadow123

Ueber Meister
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Mar 19, 2008
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midlands
The forum is still serving its purpose as well as ever,kyc and sow problems are so numerous and most complaining is related
to those so there are bound to be a lot of posts on the subject.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
The forum, the complaining, the kyc, the sow.. how can you still ok with promoting
Obviously the forums and the complaining thereon are part of Casinomeister, true enough.
But KYC and SOW? How are those our fault?
And "you still ok with promoting"? :confused:
 

paul7388

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Jan 8, 2014
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glasgow scotland
I do not think he is meaning the KYC and SOW is the fault of the forum.

Think he is getting at how the forum and gambling has changed over the last few years.

We all know how all the regulations etc. has changed gambling.

But a few years ago you used to be able to look at forum and quite often there would be light hearted threads and more active posters. Now a days there are still a few light hearted threads but the majority are all self exclusion, KYC, SOW and the forum definitely has far more whinging than it used to.

Is that the forums fault. No. It is just the same as everything times change. Just happens that before people would sign up to complain about a casino and get help. But there were more posters then so the forum balanced itself out.

Where as now there are more people that sign up to basically whinge without even looking for help. And as there are less active posters now it shows more.

i think that is all the OP was trying to get at.
 

mack341

Meister Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
Some members can remember the golden years, i was a bit too late but even in the last 5 years seen a more scrooge like casino experience develop, as well as more hassle. Firms are becoming part of huge corporations, so if they lose some loyal customers so what, plenty of new ones, every mobile phone now is a potential gambling device.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
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Location
Saltirelandia
Very true, the scene has drifted deep into amalgamation and corporatisation territory over the last few years and that has not done the players much good. At best you could say it's a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea: the old, free-wheeling, wild west days of small, privately owned casinos OR the ponderous, legalese-riddled, all-about-the-Benjamins corporatized scene we have today. The problem, of course, is that for the most part we don't get to choose, we're stuck with the way things are as opposed to how we'd like them to be.

Remember though, every bet is a vote: if you support the mega-casino groups then that's what will survive and dominate the scene. If instead you seek out the smaller, more personal and hands-on casinos then those folks will live another day.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Remember though, every bet is a vote: if you support the mega-casino groups then that's what will survive and dominate the scene. If instead you seek out the smaller, more personal and hands-on casinos then those folks will live another day.
As much as I agree with that, it has to work both ways. It is almost always the smaller groups who put barriers in place and do things to stop players playing there. As a couple of recent examples, Dion's problems with Videoslots, The Grace Media non payment posts, the NYSpins £50k non payment stuff. I'll be surprised if you find many, if any, examples of Bet365, Entain, PaddyPower, Unibet, Skybet etc doing what they are doing.

I would much prefer to play at the smaller casinos, but I also like being paid without hassle, so, with the exception of L&L and Novibet, almost all my play these days is at the big casino groups.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
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Location
Saltirelandia
Actually some of the worst stuff I've seen over the past year or so has come from the larger groups: denial of payment because of self-exclusion at unadvertised sister casinos; avoiding Responsible Gambling codes by moving sister casinos to a different license; abusing SOW and similar rules to frustrate players trying to get their rightful winnings; using the "internal complaints resolution" scam; etc etc.

I agree insofar as it's pretty much a "pick your poison" situation. But from what I see the small casinos are almost always willing to be more open to resolving player issues. Of course we're assuming the casino in question is not some unlicensed, pirated software bog hole which admittedly may not be obvious to the uninitiated. The big guys are far to willing to use their batteries of legal wonks to shave the average punter's returns wherever they can legally get away with it.

IMO the worst of the small shops use cheap, roguey tactics to cheat players and the worst of the corporate shops use big, expensive legalese BS to do the same. Like I said, pick your poison. But at least the smaller shops are more likely to be sensitive to abusing player complaints; the big guys just shrug it off and spend more on advertising.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
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Location
uk
Actually some of the worst stuff I've seen over the past year or so has come from the larger groups: denial of payment because of self-exclusion at unadvertised sister casinos; avoiding Responsible Gambling codes by moving sister casinos to a different license; abusing SOW and similar rules to frustrate players trying to get their rightful winnings; using the "internal complaints resolution" scam; etc etc.

I agree insofar as it's pretty much a "pick your poison" situation. But from what I see the small casinos are almost always willing to be more open to resolving player issues. Of course we're assuming the casino in question is not some unlicensed, pirated software bog hole which admittedly may not be obvious to the uninitiated. The big guys are far to willing to use their batteries of legal wonks to shave the average punter's returns wherever they can legally get away with it.

IMO the worst of the small shops use cheap, roguey tactics to cheat players and the worst of the corporate shops use big, expensive legalese BS to do the same. Like I said, pick your poison. But at least the smaller shops are more likely to be sensitive to abusing player complaints; the big guys just shrug it off and spend more on advertising.
I assume you are meaning larger groups such as LeoVegas, Casumo and suchlike, rather than the big UK bookies though? That was who I was meaning don't give the problems, rather than the first set I mentioned. Not saying the bookies don't have complaints about it, but considering their size and customer base, I think it's pretty obvious they are much less likely to than any of the smaller ones (to include Casumo et all)
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
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Location
Saltirelandia
I assume you are meaning larger groups such as LeoVegas, Casumo and suchlike, ...
Quite so. Most notably WillHill et al, Ladbrokes & Co, the Flutter group, etc. Up until recently I would have included Unibet group as well though that's changed for the better recently.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
Joined
Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
Quite so. Most notably WillHill et al, Ladbrokes & Co, the Flutter group, etc. Up until recently I would have included Unibet group as well though that's changed for the better recently.
Thats quite surprising to me, as I rarely see complaints about Entain, Flutter etc, whereas obviously Casumo etc do seem to generate a lot.
I do think though, considering customer numbers, the smaller casinos are ones to avoid if you don't want hassle. For example, in the Grace Media thread there are 4 or 5 customers all complaining of the same thing within a couple of weeks. If, as an example, the Entain Group were working on the same percentage of players complaining about SoW's, and taking into account they have 1000's times more customers than Grace Media, a similar thread about Coral/Ladbrokes, should generate 4-5000 complaints in that time period.
 

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
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Saltirelandia
Point taken. TBH I think we don't see a flood of WH, Lads, Flutter complaints because players who know the complaints process know that complaining about those mega-groups outside of the process proscribed in their Terms is an exercise in frustration. I could argue the same regarding why there aren't more grumblings on the forums but that's beginning to sound a bit feeble.
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
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Location
uk
Point taken. TBH I think we don't see a flood of WH, Lads, Flutter complaints because players who know the complaints process know that complaining about those mega-groups outside of the process proscribed in their Terms is an exercise in frustration. I could argue the same regarding why there aren't more grumblings on the forums but that's beginning to sound a bit feeble.
No I don't disagree with you at all, and obviously you are better positioned to see type and numbers of complaints than I am, but I do glance through AG, The Pogg, the PABs, review sites such as trustpilot every now and then, just to keep up on whats going on (yes I'm aware of the failings of say Trustpilot, but you can see trends on there), and smaller groups do seem to have proportionally larger numbers of complaints to that of the bookies.

I've seen many people say (you and myself included) that if people stop using the smaller groups, then all we will be left with are the big 5 bookies, but the smaller groups (including the likes of Casumo, BGO etc in that) do themselves no favours in alienating customers.

As an example of what turns people away from smaller casinos when they get petty

Videoslots Official discussion Thread - Casinomeister forum

Saying the name isn't visible so the document is rejected, when, apparently, it's clear as day.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
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the land of snow and maple syrup
Saying the name isn't visible so the document is rejected, when, apparently, it's clear as day.
just so it's not a one-sided POV (the blackouts are other identifiable info), but i mean, the names couldnt be any clearer; it appears no less than three times and bigger than any other font on the page :p
You'd have to be willfully blind to not see it
(the red circles were to highlight to the casino, yes, all the relevant info, is, indeed there)

bl1.jpg

bl2.jpg
 

colinsunderland

RIP Colin
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Jan 28, 2016
Location
uk
just so it's not a one-sided POV (the blackouts are other identifiable info), but i mean, the names couldnt be any clearer; it appears no less than three times and bigger than any other font on the page :p
You'd have to be willfully blind to not see it
(the red circles were to highlight to the casino, yes, all the relevant info, is, indeed there)

View attachment 156329

View attachment 156330
And thats my point, I know it doesn't apply to you, but it is EXTREMELY rare you get asked for any form of ID in the UK from the big bookies, I've had accounts with them all for over 15 years, my Betfair account has had well over a £5 million turnover, yet I haven't once had to supply any ID whatsoever.
Yet you play at a smaller group, and they do shit like this, then start crying when they lose customers. They cry about not being able to afford to operate in the UK, so reduce RTP, bonuses etc, yet seem to try as hard as possible to fuck as many customers off as possible. I mean, lower profits wouldn't be anything to do with that, would it.
 

Spikie

Experienced Member
Joined
Dec 5, 2016
Location
Uk
The big UK sites don’t seem to get as much love as they should do .

I used to love Casumo but since they started to restrict everyone it was goodbye from me .

Paddy Power / Sky , absolutely great from my perspective. No complaints at all

I think the reason that the main UK sites are never mentioned by streamers or on websites is that they don’t need to be .

They are successful enough without affiliates / streamers.
 

Casinomeister

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Bierland
Admin note: Title changed from "Is Casinomeister old tired and grey?" to "Casino Complaints and Casinomeister's role in 2021"
Well What do u Guys think
At first I thought you were referring to me :p

May be a little grey - but not tired and old. :lolup:

So I am figuring you meant the "site" Casinomeister. And yes, the dynamics are shifting some, but this is with any industry that is maturing. Playing at online casinos used to be a lot of fun, and it is still fun, but is not as carefree as it used to be.

And yeah, this affects the atmosphere of the forum. Many folks have quit gambling - you can see this in our polls. The online casino industry at first tried to be focused on the player - as we here at Casinomeister have been preaching about for over two decades - but unfortunately this is no longer true, and the industry is primarily focused on profitablility and compliance. That is not "player" focused - it's the polar opposite.
 
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maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
... As an example of what turns people away from smaller casinos when they get petty
...
Sorry, catching up. FWIW I would argue that Videoslots isn't exactly one of the "little guys" anymore. They've diversified into a small and growing group and are now licensed in several jurisdictions. From what I know from the grapevine their estimated value is actually quite high -- several times what, for example, 32Red sold for -- and that puts them more in the mid-range of casinos rather than the small "mom and pop" shops that we've been making mention of. Perhaps even more significant is that fact that VS now have a fairly large staff and are thoroughly lawyered-up. Again, traits of the bigger outfits rather than the small 2, 3, 4-man "indy" casinos.
 
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