Resolved Casino Club

kmay87

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Location
England
I PAB about Casino Club a while back - I know it's not advisable to talk about it on here while that's still going on, but the scenario has changed so much, I would really have to PAB again and I'm fairly confident this can be sorted.

To outline - I signed up, received the 100 Euro bonus and thought I would try out a new strategy. Ladbrokes mailed me a strategy card (can't be unlawful or anything like that as it was given out by another casino, and it's not a bot or anything that plays for you). I used this, probably played for around three hours, at the end up 50 Euro, nothing stunning but suggests it may work. Anyway, I got kicked out of the software, tried to log back in and it says my account is locked. Send a few emails to support, no reply. Finally get an email from security asking for ID etc. Thought it a bit odd that a casino would block your account for this reason, but I gave them what they wanted. Account still locked five days later.

Following this, I finally get through to support by telephone. Told that they weren't allowed to talk to me, and then hung up. After many many calls, I get put through to a manager. He reads what sounded like a statement - I have been using a bot, because I played for too long, my deposit would be refunded, my account locked and I was never welcome again. It was a lie, but acceptable to me, so long as I got my deposit back.

I waited two weeks, still hadn't received it so emailed the manager. All credit to her, she replied back very quickly. The emphasis was, I must have been using a bot because I was only betting 1 Euro hands. I kindly reminded her that I do not have to explain my betting patterns, and if the casino doesn't want players to bet small amounts, they shouldn't give them the option.

Now for the fun part. Being a lawyer, it came to me that the email requesting ID was a falsity, because the decision had already been made that I was cheating. Therefore, aside from why they actually did want it, this is a simple case for invasion of privacy, along with deception and defamation, which I could have had them for earlier on.

I emailed back outlining this, but making it clear that this was rather petty, I have no desire to sue them, I just wanted everything back to normal so I could continue playing.

Finally, I was emailed back today saying that my account was reopened and I was warmly welcomed back. BUT, no surprise, my account balance was zero. Here's where your input would be helpful.
Surely if my account is open once again, they have accepted, finally, that I wasn't cheating. I can't imagine they would do so if they thought I had been using a bot. But the question is, where has my money gone?

I know it's long winded, and sounds like a soap opera, but any ideas anyone has would be interesting. It's gone from the stage of being banned and getting my money back, to being welcome but the money would be kept!

Thanks all
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
Hi there im wondering when they stated they would return your deposit if that is whats in the works. Most casinos you can check this out in the cashier part. I would of been accused of the same play type i have never played cards for over a dollar a bet. Wouldnt of even crossed my mind playing at the lowest stake they would assume you had used a bot. I guess thats why i stick to my slots.
Good luck keep us posted.
laura
 

kmay87

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Location
England
The initial email with the manager made it clear my money wouldn't be refunded. They copied some terms and conditions about using a bot, and then tried to elaborate on them to change the meaning. All the cashier shows is that on such and such date 100 Euro was deposited, now it's vanished with no record of it being taken.

I understand about the low wager - but my reasons are (like I said in the email to them) I was trying out this strategy card, and if it didn't work I would be seriously out of pocket. if say I bet 10 Euro hands. And who's to say even if I did, and made a profit, I would have been banned. Probably not if I lost though.
 

frafi

Full Member
PABnonaccred
Joined
Oct 27, 2003
Location
Germany
how long is your session?

Could I kindly ask you how long did you play the longest session?

Because normally I sit down in front of my computer very long when I play.

So I have the same betting pattern like you and doing now a 10000,- wagering requirement...
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
If you follow a strategy card, your play would be "perfect", but this is NOT the same as using a bot.

I suspect they reopened the account because they realised they were up against a professional LAWYER, but still thought a bot had been used, hence they opted to reopen the account and "steal" the money.

They have simply dug themselves into an even deeper hole, since opening the account again shows they are happy for this player to continue, yet they have failed to account for the missing funds, which would be either a careless loss or even theft.

If they have indeed returned the deposit, then it should arrive in a timely manner, and this would also justify their request for ID.

If they had indeed decided initially that cheating had taken place, and ID would not influence the outcome, then they are indeed guilty of invasion of privacy through a deceptive and invalid request for ID. They most probably wanted the ID so that they could add this player's details to some "risk database", not so that they could verify the account and pay the winnings as they seemed keen to imply. Depending on the location of the casino (and player), this could have landed the casino in a lot of trouble, and is probably why they are now retreating from their earlier position.

It seems that being well versed in the law (or a good blagger) helps to make casinos reassess some of their no-appeal decisions made on "security grounds".

If this did go to a court, they would have to PROVE a bot was used, rather than a strategy card. In defence, the player could simply offer to repeat the "bot session" in front of the court, and show they could have made the play by using the strategy card. The judge may not fancy sitting for 3 hours to watch this, but might presume that 3 hours is not an unreasonable length of time in which to carry out a simple and repetitive task well, given that factory workers do this twice a day, 5 days a week, and for much of their working lives.
 

kmay87

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Location
England
Thanks a lot for the above comments. I'm glad that someone else can see what I'm seeing, it's now just the case of getting Casino Club to recognise this.

The irony of it is, had they closed my account and refunded the money as promised (and from what I've read, closing an account and refunding a deposit is the usual approach for casinos who catch someone using a bot) then all of this would have gone away. But oddly enough, I don't feel like being 'warmly welcomed' back to a casino after being branded a cheat and a liar, with of course all my balance vanishing. All webdollar shows is my deposit going in, but no sign of a withdrawal, so I cannot think they have refunded me. More to the point, if they reopened my account, then there was no need to.

I agree that being a lawyer probably does help me in that I know exactly what they can and can't do, and how to deal with it, but this has got petty to say the least. I'm hardly going to take them to court over 100, but what gets me is their 'proof' that I used a bot. Their argument is justified by me playing for 'five hours' - apparently - and only betting one Euro. In all that time, I made 50 Euro. But in ten seconds I could have placed 100 on a single hand and doubled my money. So they can't say I was ripping them off in consistently beating the house or anything.

The simple fact is they have no proof, and they've made things worse for themselves by removing the lock on my account. As you rightly pointed, I would be quite happy to show them the strategy card mailed to me by Ladbrokes, and they could see that EVERY one of my hands reflects what this card says to do.

While the manager I've been speaking to has been helpful, I've never known of a casino to quote from its own t and c's and try to change the meaning. A section about the use of bots was quoted, which said where they suspect bot use they will close accounts and refund deposits, but keep all winnings. They tried to twist this by saying all funds will be seized. Interesting to say the least.

Hopefully they will soon realise what they've done and we can come to an amicable agreement. Always thought Casino Club was held in high regard.
 

kmay87

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Location
England
FWIW your PAB is still an open and active issue. If fact I asked them about it today and they've got a new guy on the job looking into it.

Maxd - I know the general idea of not posting about the same issue if a PAB has been made, but as I did state, when I did that my account was completely locked and noone would talk to me, now after emailing the manager it was reopened and thus the complaint has changed quite a bit. But I appreciate your efforts, hopefully something good will come out of it. In the meantime, to save any grievances, I'll not post on the issue again until the PAB is resolved.
 

kmay87

Meister Member
PABnononaccred
PABaccred2
Joined
Jun 19, 2008
Location
England
No, I understood what you said, I was just referring to earlier on when I posted a comment about Casino Club, and you chipped in and recommended I didn't say too much as it might affect the PAB. I'm glad to hear it's not dead in the water though...I haven't heard back from the manager after asking where my money has gone, but I'll give it a rest until I hear back from you.

Thanks for your efforts
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
I was just referring to earlier on when I posted a comment about Casino Club, and you chipped in and recommended I didn't say too much as it might affect the PAB.

Yes, in general that is true and we do try to discourage it.
 
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