Casino Club closed account of 167'500 JACKPOT winner

[Casinomeister]

For the record, Realplayer was banned for misrepresenting his PAB. When his PAB was forwarded to the casino, the casino's reply included the receipt of the lawyer's letter delivery and they explained that this was in their attorney's hands. The player came back and denied that he had been contacted - even though we had proof.

We gave him the contact details of the legal firm, told him to contact them and settle this. The PAB was closed and so was the player's account (for the above mentioned reasons). This was in December. It's now three months later - with no movement whatsoever....except this thread keeps going on

Realplayer's English is just fine by the way. It's more coherent than many native speakers that I deal with

 

[Zodiac]

I had been going to ask you if you would consider allowing RealPlayer to post here, because I honestly think this is the only way I'm going to be able to put this to rest in my own mind....if I can talk (post) to him directly. But....I'm not sure if he speaks English.

same opinion too Pina, and yes he is able to post in your language

I've tried to wade through that German forum, and everything is in German.

yes it's in german and you must also use a translator

it is the same if i like to post here

@ Bryan

Take him back from banning and allow him to post, that will be more as fair.

Give him the chance Bryan, the situation is already complicated enough.

 

[Rusty]

This stinks from both the Casino's and players perspective, no doubt about it.

You are not alone Pinababy and you have the same pertinent questions as the rest of us that so far have received no definitive answer.

Bryan;
This guy is accused of fraudulent activity. It's a rare even that a casino refunds the deposits of someone who blatantly tried to rip them off with bogus accounts etc.

Yes accused by the people who stole his money as the known facts stand.
You are making some pretty strong statements here Bryan so I can only assume you have seen or possess evidence that realplayer blatantly tried to "rip off" Casino Club.That statement goes well beyond your instincts.
For the benefit of your members could you please state whether you have seen conclusive proof that this Guy is a fraud.

Do you consider it acceptable practice that a Casino steals ( to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share[though most definitions fit]) funds of any player it suspects of fraud?
Or is this just a nice little bonus for Casino's to profit from fraud?

I disagree that anyone is "having their chain yanked" by the player here, we have not even heard from the Guy.
All the doubts and questions here have been brought about by Casino Clubs actions not by information(lack of) from the player.
Many have stated that they smell a rat.

As Pinababy states what does this accusation of fraud relate to?
It can not be bot play so surely it must be multiple accounts, if this is the case then no doubt it can be easily proved and Realplayer is wasting everyones time so lets get the Jackpot money back where it belongs and we can treat the issue of bot play as Red Herring.

However if the fraud accusation relates to bot play then Casino Club are digging a very large and deep hole for themselves.

It is unfortunate that this is going through the LGA Malta and not the courts but perhaps understandable given the reticence of both parties.

 

[Casinomeister]

This stinks from both the Casino's and players perspective, no doubt about it.

You are not alone Pinababy and you have the same pertinent questions as the rest of us that so far have received no definitive answer.

Bryan;
This guy is accused of fraudulent activity. It's a rare even that a casino refunds the deposits of someone who blatantly tried to rip them off with bogus accounts etc.

Actually - this was a generalization of two separate observations. I should have separated the sentences with a paragraph. For example:

The casino has accused him of fraudulent activity.

It's a rare even that a casino refunds the deposits of someone who (purportedly) blatantly tried to rip them off with bogus accounts etc.

Better?

As I mentioned earlier, his account was closed because of misrepresenting his PAB. If I mentioned closed because of fraud, then I mispoke - please remember Max and I have dealt with scores of PABs since then, and I am dealing with a number of other issues/projects as well.

For casinos to confiscate deposits of fraudsters, that is a complex issue that should be dealt with one-on-one. Example: if a player knowingly attempts to defraud a casino by using fake IDs or opening phony accounts, then yes he is forfeiting his deposit. Casinos deal with processing issues daily, in most cases they are billed for their transactions etc. Why should it be expected for them to invest the man hours and resources it take to transfer fraudsters deposits back to fraudsters? Makes no sense. It would be open season on casinos then. The bottom line is that it is up to the casino to deal with this.

Fraud is not bonus abuse or advantage play by the way. But I don't think this pertains to this situation.

In all fairness, I'll reinstate Realplayer's account so perhaps he can answer some questions here as well.

@realplayer - be cool - don't be playin' us

 

[thelawnet]

I've been in contact with him via email. He stated yesterday that he contacted the LGA three months ago, so far he's heard nothing.

Now there's a surprise.

The LGA are a disgrace.

Why has this player not done this? Why has he "contacted" the LGA three months ago and just let it sit? Why has he been so passive?

Not sure, still no answer to my questions I see.

This is a no brainer. You guys who are siding with "realplayer" are having your chains yanked. He's living up to his handle because he's "playing" you.

Not sure about 'siding' with him, the casino haven't presented a credible case against him. He's innocent until proven guilty as far as I'm concerned.

First they said he was using a bot.

Now at some point the claim about multiple identities has appeared.

What's up with that? Why didn't they mention that at the beginning?

If he had a case, this would have been resolved in August/September.

I'm not sure what has happened between August and December. I can see contacting the LGA has killed months of time (why didn't the casino mention this before, the LGA would have contacted them directly when they received the complaint, so why is it only now that this is their reason for not communicating?), because that's how they operate, but not the first four months.

My gut instincts tell me "player fraud" - and my instincts are right 98% of the time

But like Max said, the jury's still out. We'll wait and see a little longer.

Indeed. Instincts aren't enough to convict.

 

[Casinomeister]

...I'm not sure what has happened between August and December. I can see contacting the LGA has killed months of time (why didn't the casino mention this before, the LGA would have contacted them directly when they received the complaint, so why is it only now that this is their reason for not communicating?), because that's how they operate, but not the first four months.

Yeah it's odd that the casino didn't mention this. It's also odd that the player didn't mention this either until yesterday.

Was the LGA in fact contacted? (as if this would matter, unfortunately )

 

[thelawnet]

Actually - this was a generalization of two separate observations. I should have separated the sentences with a paragraph. For example:

The casino has accused him of fraudulent activity.

It's a rare even that a casino refunds the deposits of someone who (purportedly) blatantly tried to rip them off with bogus accounts etc.

Better?

As I mentioned earlier, his account was closed because of misrepresenting his PAB. If I mentioned closed because of fraud, then I mispoke - please remember Max and I have dealt with scores of PABs since then, and I am dealing with a number of other issues/projects as well.

For casinos to confiscate deposits of fraudsters, that is a complex issue that should be dealt with one-on-one. Example: if a player knowingly attempts to defraud a casino by using fake IDs or opening phony accounts, then yes he is forfeiting his deposit.

I see that they did actually mention this in their letter of 21st August 2008

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(bad translation):

In addition, our clients also sufficient information available, which is another violation of the Terms of evidence, namely a violation of Section 12 of the "business condition". The information that our clients are available, refer to the violation of the rules that a user of the online casinos www.casinoclub.com only one player account may lead. According to the information you have at least one other player account at misleading use of female contact information opens up.

My view is the most likely explanation of the player's behaviour was that he was concerned about this particular paragraph (i.e. that it's true).

Even so, it seems odd to ignore 200k even in the face of such a claim.

Even if Casino Club can present evidence to show that the players are connected (perhaps the same computer was used, or something of that kind), I don't see that that affects the enforceability of mike64's win. Mike64 is realplayer, mike64 won the jackpot, the ID fraud is a separate issue.

Sure, Casino Club could reasonably deduct the bonuses given to this female alter ego from the payout, but I don't see that they affect the issue that mike64 genuinely did win the jackpot.

In all fairness, I'll reinstate Realplayer's account so perhaps he can answer some questions here as well.

Let's hope he does.

 

[uungy]

Easier to see the pdf here

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[Zodiac]

In all fairness, I'll reinstate Realplayer's account so perhaps he can answer some questions here as well.

thank you Bryan

I have informed realplayer that he can now post here again and hopefully he will answer some questions here.

 

[winbig]

Easier to see the pdf here

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Sure, if you can read German....

doesn't do much good if you don't, especially since the online translators don't do a very good job. They pretty much just give a literal translation (word for word) and you can't get much more than a basic idea of what's being said.

 

[Rusty]

Actually - this was a generalization of two separate observations. I should have separated the sentences with a paragraph. For example:

The casino has accused him of fraudulent activity.

It's a rare even that a casino refunds the deposits of someone who (purportedly) blatantly tried to rip them off with bogus accounts etc.

Better?

As I mentioned earlier, his account was closed because of misrepresenting his PAB. If I mentioned closed because of fraud, then I mispoke - please remember Max and I have dealt with scores of PABs since then, and I am dealing with a number of other issues/projects as well.

For casinos to confiscate deposits of fraudsters, that is a complex issue that should be dealt with one-on-one. Example: if a player knowingly attempts to defraud a casino by using fake IDs or opening phony accounts, then yes he is forfeiting his deposit. Casinos deal with processing issues daily, in most cases they are billed for their transactions etc. Why should it be expected for them to invest the man hours and resources it take to transfer fraudsters deposits back to fraudsters? Makes no sense. It would be open season on casinos then. The bottom line is that it is up to the casino to deal with this.

Fraud is not bonus abuse or advantage play by the way. But I don't think this pertains to this situation.

In all fairness, I'll reinstate Realplayer's account so perhaps he can answer some questions here as well.

@realplayer - be cool - don't be playin' us

Thank you for clarifying that Bryan because it did appear to me that you were referring to Realplayers account with Casino Club.
It was not the statement itself but rather the context in which it was used.
It was certainly not a pedantic remark I made but a very serious point.
Can I take from this that you have not seen any conclusive evidence he held a fraudulent account at Casino Club?

I am not saying fraudulent deposits (from stolen cards etc) should be returned to the fraudster, of course not.
I am saying that the proper authorities should be informed and the deposit held and hopefully returned to the rightful owners in due course.
If they simply keep the money and do not pursue justice then the fraudster is left free to commit another crime and who suffers really?
Not the Casinos and not the fraudster but the ordinary Joe on the Street as usual.
I would fully expect the Casino to claim/deduct reasonable expenses and costs.
I do agree that the issue is a complex One but I feel it is abused by Casinos who look upon it as nice little earner and for them to keep misappropriated funds is embezzlement as far as I can see.
Yes I accept it is up to the Casino how they deal with this but Stealing from a thief is hardly justifiable.
Ok I do not want to muddy the waters anymore than they already are but it is an impotant issue and relevant to this case.
I would welcome an open discussion on the issue if Casinomeister feels this would be better served in another thread.

May I aslo I welcome the fact that you have reopened Realplayers account.
I think this is a smart move because should He not appear that will reflect very badly on Him and if He does appear He can be sure He will get the same thorough questioning as Casino Club.

 

[Zodiac]

Sure, if you can read German....

doesn't do much good if you don't, especially since the online translators don't do a very good job. They pretty much just give a literal translation (word for word) and you can't get much more than a basic idea of what's being said.

yes indeed

 

[Pinababy69]

In all fairness, I'll reinstate Realplayer's account so perhaps he can answer some questions here as well.

@realplayer - be cool - don't be playin' us

Thank you Bryan, it is appreciated.

I see that they did actually mention this in their letter of 21st August 2008

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

(bad translation):

In addition, our clients also sufficient information available, which is another violation of the Terms of evidence, namely a violation of Section 12 of the "business condition". The information that our clients are available, refer to the violation of the rules that a user of the online casinos www.casinoclub.com only one player account may lead. According to the information you have at least one other player account at misleading use of female contact information opens up.

My view is the most likely explanation of the player's behaviour was that he was concerned about this particular paragraph (i.e. that it's true).

Even so, it seems odd to ignore 200k even in the face of such a claim.

Even if Casino Club can present evidence to show that the players are connected (perhaps the same computer was used, or something of that kind), I don't see that that affects the enforceability of mike64's win. Mike64 is realplayer, mike64 won the jackpot, the ID fraud is a separate issue.

Sure, Casino Club could reasonably deduct the bonuses given to this female alter ego from the payout, but I don't see that they affect the issue that mike64 genuinely did win the jackpot.

I hate to disagree Lawnet....but, if it is shown beyond a doubt that there are multiple accounts, then I personally don't see where the player has a leg to stand on. You can't just deduct the bonuses issued previously, and say okay, pay the guy what's left of the 167K. Signing up multiple accounts, and claiming bonuses with more than one account is considered fraud, at least as I understand it. IMO, he would forfeit his win.

I am not saying fraudulent deposits (from stolen cards etc) should be returned to the fraudster, of course not.

I am saying that the proper authorities should be informed and the deposit held and hopefully returned to the rightful owners in due course. If they simply keep the money and do not pursue justice then the fraudster is left free to commit another crime and who suffers really? Not the Casinos and not the fraudster but the ordinary Joe on the Street as usual. I would fully expect the Casino to claim/deduct reasonable expenses and costs.I do agree that the issue is a complex One but I feel it is abused by Casinos who look upon it as nice little earner and for them to keep misappropriated funds is embezzlement as far as I can see.

Yes I accept it is up to the Casino how they deal with this but Stealing from a thief is hardly justifiable.

I've highlighted the bolded parts, as I agree 100% Rusty. If he does have multiple accounts, then by all means, nullify the jackpot win, and deduct reasonable admin costs....but to confiscate 25K? Sorry, but I can't get on board with that.

EDITED TO ADD: If I disappear, it's because my goddamn internet has been off and on for the last four hours. I spent half an hour on that first post this morning, and when I hit post, my internet went out. I wasn't sure if the post went through or not. And it's been intermittent ever since. I'm losing my mind...uuugghhh!!

So Rusty, if RealPlayer shows up.....you know what to ask right? LOL.....

 

[dominique]

Well, all this stuff going on with Casino Club is cause for affiliates to proceed with caution. However, for those who would rather not deal with controversial places and want to pull Casino Club, Affiliate Club, the marketing arm, sprung an unannounced nasty surprise.

In the still of night and without any announcement they added a quota to their affiliate T&Cs. So, if affiliates decide they do not want to send their players to Casino Club anymore, they are punished by having monies already earned withheld.

 

[RobWin]

It would also like to know from Casino Club and for their benefit too, if in fact the "Jackpot Funds" in question are being held in an Escrow Account somewhere ??

Why will Casino Club NOT answer this simple question here...I think that in itself speaks volumns against CC !!

Probably no refund. Generally speaking, refunds are usually given to advantage players whose accounts are closed. This guy is accused of fraudulent activity. It's a rare even that a casino refunds the deposits of someone who blatantly tried to rip them off with bogus accounts etc.

Can you please Define and Clarify the term "fraudulent activity" as it relates to this particular situation ?

For the record, Realplayer was banned for misrepresenting his PAB. When his PAB was forwarded to the casino, the casino's reply included the receipt of the lawyer's letter delivery and they explained that this was in their attorney's hands. The player came back and denied that he had been contacted - even though we had proof.

Was this receipt by means of a "Signed" Certified letter that was actually signed for by "realplayer" himself ??

Another words we know for a fact it was "realplayers" actual signature and not that of someone else ??

 

[Tengil]

Well this truly stinks, on CCs part. They have lied about the address and the legal issue.

If the player would be a multiaccounter why drag any "bot" accusations into the case?

And LGA, its an even bigger joke than Kahnawake.

 

[Casinomeister]

Well, all this stuff going on with Casino Club is cause for affiliates to proceed with caution. However, for those who would rather not deal with controversial places and want to pull Casino Club, Affiliate Club, the marketing arm, sprung an unannounced nasty surprise.

In the still of night and without any announcement they added a quota to their affiliate T&Cs. So, if affiliates decide they do not want to send their players to Casino Club anymore, they are punished by having monies already earned withheld.

Even so - it's a separate issue from this one and even convolutes this even more. I'll probably begin another thread in the webmaster's section concerning this.

Nevertheless - the big picture of the CC situation does not fare with me very well. They are not making things easy for themselves.

 

[dominique]

Even so - it's a separate issue from this one and even convolutes this even more. I'll probably begin another thread in the webmaster's section concerning this.

Nevertheless - the big picture of the CC situation does not fare with me very well. They are not making things easy for themselves.

It really ticks me off because it looks like they are deliberately trying to prevent webmasters from acting on player information.

I just blacklisted them for this.

 

[Casinomeister]

Why will Casino Club NOT answer this simple question here...I think that in itself speaks volumns against CC !!

Perhaps because the thread is 25+ pages long and has gone every which way but south.

Can you please Define and Clarify the term "fraudulent activity" as it relates to this particular situation ?

I already explained that my statement was misunderstood earlier. The casino is accusing him of fraudulent activity - I had accused him of not being straightforward with me and Max concerning the PAB.

Was this receipt by means of a "Signed" Certified letter that was actually signed for by "realplayer" himself ??


Another words we know for a fact it was "realplayers" actual signature and not that of someone else ??

The receipt is from a certified letter that was signed for - the signature is a scribble - but the fact that this letter was delivered to realplayer's address in August is supported by this receipt.

Besides - realplayer has had this letter for sure for a couple of weeks since it's been posting in cyberland. Why didn't he act on this immediately?

Don't forget - this is for play that occurred in June of last year, right?

... They have lied about the address and the legal issue.

If the player would be a multiaccounter why drag any "bot" accusations into the case?

And LGA, its an even bigger joke than Kahnawake.

Posts like this will get this thread locked in a New York minute. Drop the emotional rants.

 

[RobWin]

Yea, I definitely understand everyone's concern as to the question "why has "realplayer" taken so long to act on some of these issues"? It baffles me too, but when you consider the fact that this guy can actually afford to make a $25,000.00 deposit then it also tells me that he is really well off and may be to the extreme point of being "Eccentric" ( term used for Rich folks... )....whereas in the same scenario the term "crazy" is used for us poor folks...

 

[Casinomeister]

Thread upgraded to closed

For sanity's sake, I'm locking this thread and starting a new one where members can ask questions of CC and of realplayer so we can have a better understanding of exactly what has been going on.

https://www.casinomeister.com/forum...ncerning-the-confiscations-of-winnings.30072/

Please feel free to use posts in this thread as reference.

Please note: locking this thread is strictly being done for administrative reasons. We need to keep this issue focused, and it's all over the place at the moment. Thank you for your understanding.