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Question Cashback as a concept

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by tomgalanis, Apr 9, 2013.

    Apr 9, 2013
  1. tomgalanis

    tomgalanis Casino Rep for Accredited Casino

    Occupation:
    Director, GameOn
    Location:
    Kent, United Kingdom
    Meister Members,

    We are considering offering cashback to our customers with a view to diversifying our bonus structure to accommodate all types of casino player. Just a quick shout out to see how many casino players, and of what ilk, would opt for a cashback bonus if it was available.

    There are several routes we can facilitate this in our system, but initially I'm just curious as to whether meister members would prefer a lower (say 10%) loss-based cashback bonus with a lower wagering requirement over a higher percentage with deposit bonus-style wagering requirements. If you could also mention as to whether or not you take deposit bonuses as standard, that would be great...

    Cheers,

    Tom
     
  2. Apr 9, 2013
  3. Balthazar

    Balthazar The Governor

    Occupation:
    Leader
    Location:
    Woodbury
    10% back seems great and better than most comp point systems on an average gaming session. (ie: if I deposit $50 and lose it, I probably won't get $5 back in comp points from that session alone).

    However, it's still only 10% and I'd probably favor a higher % with higher WR on a deposit bonus.
     
  4. Apr 9, 2013
  5. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    Personally speaking, I'm not a fan of any sort of 'Cashback' or percentage refunds on your losses.

    It emphasises I've lost and does my head in there's a lot less coming back than I spent.

    Wrapping it up another way and just dropping cash bonuses into players accounts is a far more appealing and kinaesthetic approach, for me at least.

    I.e -

    "Hey, You lost £1000 yesterday - we've refunded you £100"

    or

    "Hey, we just dropped £100 in your account for you to have some spins on us - enjoy!"


    Number two makes me happy, number one makes me sad.

    I certainly wouldn't take up play @ a casino based on a 'cashback' promotion and it wouldn't encourage me to be loyal.
     
    2 people like this.
  6. Apr 9, 2013
  7. tomgalanis

    tomgalanis Casino Rep for Accredited Casino

    Occupation:
    Director, GameOn
    Location:
    Kent, United Kingdom
    Makes plenty of sense. Bottom line is, this is pretty much how casino VIP programs operate. My hunch is that some players like the fact that they might be minimising their risk, but the cashback label certainly takes away the 'fun' element that a cash drop has.

    Thanks for your feedback
     
  8. Apr 9, 2013
  9. weesie

    weesie Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Old bag lady with a laptop
    Any "cashback" offer I have received have been pretty lame IMO. Since I am a smaller depositor, say $30.00 and

    they offer 25% cash back, what is that, $7.50?? I laugh! Then, when I read the wagering and cash out max it gets

    me too. Wagering requirement is 2x, max cash out from it is 10x.

    Then you need to take into consideration the withdrawal options and fees involved. Some of which are just

    ridiculous. Why bother?

    But, I am in the States, so, my theory may not apply to most people.

    If you are a BIG depositor, it is probably a good deal.
     
  10. Apr 9, 2013
  11. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England

    As a relatively big depositor when I play, cashback is appealing as long as the restrictions are minimal. 2x WR is fine, a max cashout of 10x the amount is ok too.

    But the "cash drop" idea is more fun. It also means the casino has more flexibility and doesn't have to tie itself down with all players or to timescales. Must be less expensive to manage.

    That said, the cash drop has to be regular and give "relative" value to the player. If I played £1000 and was spinning at £5 a spin and they dropped £20 in my account I wouldn't even bother logging in. £50 might work when I was bored. £200 definitely would. Plus, £200 is enough time to get me back in "the mood" to play and potentially deposit more if I lost, whereas £50 would be gone in a minute and I'd be wandering off round the Internet to see if Gillingham had ever won a winner's trophy rather than a consolation prize :p
     
  12. Apr 9, 2013
  13. tomgalanis

    tomgalanis Casino Rep for Accredited Casino

    Occupation:
    Director, GameOn
    Location:
    Kent, United Kingdom
    You ruined a perfectly sensible post with this :). Come back to me in a fortnight when we've got the title wrapped up!

    Thanks for the feedback everyone. Very helpful
     
  14. Apr 10, 2013
  15. wintingo

    wintingo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    player experience manager
    Location:
    Tingo Land
    We are offering only cashback type promotions, its issued as real cash and there are no wagering requirements, the cash is yours and you are free to cash it out or continue playing with. That being said, players do need to earn the cashback by wagering and therefore the cashback is earned on BOTH winnings and losses. The term cashback is used because its universally known throughout the retail world and from a marketing and communication perspective, customers immediately identify with it.

    IMO, cashback that comes with wagering requirements and max cashout rules is misleading and should be termed "bonus back" or some other clearer term.
     
    4 people like this.
  16. Apr 10, 2013
  17. Slotster!

    Slotster! I predict a riot. CAG

    Occupation:
    al Hazard
    Location:
    Location, Location!
    It shoudn't be termed anything - it should be kicked right out!

    I cannot BELIEVE RTG and others still persevere with the 'max cashout' FREE chips... Ridiculous.
     
    3 people like this.
  18. Apr 13, 2013
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    This is what makes the idea suspicious to many. The industry is littered with so called "cashback" offers that come with not only the restrictions of bonuses, but often even more draconian ones simply because despite being related to past deposits and play, are not credited alongside them, but at a later time, thus being classified as a "free chip".

    A £200 cashback should really have the same relative value as a £200 deposit, so at worst a 1x WR and certainly no max cashout. Anything else is a "bonus", and does not have the same intrinsic value as "cash".
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Apr 15, 2013
  21. wintingo

    wintingo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    player experience manager
    Location:
    Tingo Land
    This is one of the main reasons we developed Cashpay. It addresses the following issues:

    - Cashback is awarded as real, withdrawable cash. Players can withdraw whenever they want
    - Cashback is awarded as a percentage of each and every deposit
    - While playing, in real time, the cashback is automatically added to your account. Users can see a live progress bar of when the next cashback unit will be released
    - There are game weightings that determine the rate of cashback i.e. slots count 100% for example
    - Did i mention that users can withdraw whenever they want??
    - Cashback is awarded on EVERY deposit i.e. ongoing loyalty
    - Cashback eligibility is carried over from each deposit i.e. if you were unlucky and never managed to earn the full cashback for that particular deposit, if you choose to deposit again we carry over any unearned cashback
    - Players are never penalized or bonus banned if they withdraw. A player can have a pending withdrawal and still re-deposit and earn the cashback bonuses.
    - Oh, and by the way, your can withdraw your money and the cashback money we give whenever you want, no wagering requirements in order to withdraw!!
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Apr 15, 2013
  23. RozalynneJames

    RozalynneJames Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    webmaster by night, hmmm...boring other stuff for
    Location:
    Canada
    I found this thread very interesting as a webmaster, affiliate and player. As a player the term 'cash back' is extremely misleading because it's not cash, it's casino credits. If you can turn it into cash by the time the play through is done then it's a good day in the casino! Usually I just end up depositing more though because the amount of credits offered is small on the return and doesn't last long, as many of us know!
    The other side is the free play option that most newer players get mislead by, as they don't realize there is a maximum win amount and most casinos require a deposit of some sort before being eligible to 'cash' it out.
    In any case, as a webmaster I offer the same on deposits, 10% cash back to my subscribers but it's actual real cash into PayPal or Payza (email transfer on request). This is a definite favorite as there are no wagering requirements and it's paid out monthly so it adds up, rather than deposit by deposit. In addition to my offer, the player still benefits from the casino's offers with the 10% casino crediting system.

    Just my two cents :cool:
    Cheers,
    Roz
    You must register/login in order to see the link.
     
    2 people like this.
  24. Mar 27, 2015
  25. nikantw

    nikantw Ueber Meister MM PABaccred

    Occupation:
    A bit of this and that
    Location:
    EU
    Kind of late, but I have something to say about cash back and it is best to say it here than open a new thread.

    Cash back should be cash, but even if it is bonus, the rule should be “x% cash back on (total cash bets – winnings from those bets), up to y”. In other words, cash back on cash net loses. No strings attached. No other rules.

    Most casinos place so many rules on cash back, that it ends up to be a deposit match you take if you lose your deposit. And most of the time support is unable or unwilling to explain the rules, like the example below:

    me: so the real casback rule is "10% deposit match, but only if you lose it all"
    Anson: Cashback is paid on losses, and you need to have deposited
    me: that is what i said, only on deposits you lose
    Anson: Correct yes
    me: So, if the day before I deposit 20, win 1000 by midnight, enter the new day (cashback day) with cash balance of 1000 and lose everything, do I get any cashback?
    Anson: Yes you would qualify
    me: what if the 1000 I played on tournament and the tournament ended after midnight and I won 1000 cash from it?
    Anson: You would not qualify, because you did not deposit.
    me: It is the same example as before, there was not deposit then on cashback day, only on day before, and you said that qualifies
    Anson: If you do require any further information, please feel free to read the terms and conditions on our website. I hope that you have a great day further then, and as always we wish you the very best of luck. (chat ended by support)
     
  26. Mar 28, 2015
  27. sigothx1

    sigothx1 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Civil servant
    Location:
    England
    just to answer the op as i haven't read any posts, the casino i work for has a "little and often" policy, meaning, we will regularly give "cashback" but the amounts we give are miniscule unless your a good depositor in which case we often give £100 a week with a 1xWR, but these are the big players. most average depositor will get at-least 3 days of "cashback" per week, usually £2, £3 or £5, but 3x a week, the logic is the more there playing at our casino the more chance that once the bonus cred is gone, they'll deposit to carry on playing and i can tell you, this does work.

    to get the cashback there are a couple terms, we expect you to have deposited in the last 7 days, and we expect you to be playing other things than table games, but thats not alot to achieve, my experience of cashback in general is terrible, it always comes with WR, which i actually do find ok, but since the amount is tiny unless i get a 100x bonus within 10-20 spins im never really making a w/d.
     

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