cashback and expected value

philderby1

Senior Member
I have a question, if a casino is offering 10% cashback to a player, if the rtp is lets say 94% rtp then does this mean the average payout is 104% and positive EV?

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
I have a question, if a casino is offering 10% cashback to a player, if the rtp is lets say 94% rtp then does this mean the average payout is 104% and positive EV?
No not at all. It means if you deposit 100, get the TRTP over your session of 94%, you will bust out after a few hours. You have lost 100 pounds. You get 10% cashback on your losses (this is how cashback usually works) up to a certain amount. You get £10. You have therefore turned 100 in to 10. An effective RTP (on the terms you're getting at) of 10%.

IF you played and cashed out 50, you'd have lost 50 and therefore would get £5 cashback, giving you an RTP in your terms of 55%.

The only way you can get the cashback is to lose, therefore you cannot ever incorporate it into a positive 100%+ RTP.

wintingo

Dormant account
No not at all. It means if you deposit 100, get the TRTP over your session of 94%, you will bust out after a few hours. You have lost 100 pounds. You get 10% cashback on your losses (this is how cashback usually works) up to a certain amount. You get £10. You have therefore turned 100 in to 10. An effective RTP (on the terms you're getting at) of 10%.

If you played and cashed out 50, you'd have lost 50 and therefore would get £5 cashback, giving you an RTP in your terms of 55%.

The only way you can get the cashback is to lose, therefore you cannot ever incorporate it into a positive 100%+ RTP.
It depends on how cashback is defined. In simple retail terms its "spend some money with us and we will give you back a % of the spend". I think in some casinos its % back on your losses.

We took a different approach and applied a cashback concept with our cashpay system i.e. deposit funds and receive a % back of the deposit regardless of whether you win or lose. The only condition is you need to play/wager a certain amount to then receive the cashback. The cashback is released in real time, while you play everytime you hit the required wagering (in our case the default is \$2 back for every \$70 wagered) the cash is automatically added to your account. Effectively, this can have a positive effect on a players long term RTP.

Cogge

Full Member
I have a question, if a casino is offering 10% cashback to a player, if the rtp is lets say 94% rtp then does this mean the average payout is 104% and positive EV?
Depends on how you play and if the cash back has any wagering requirement attached.

(for simplicity, lets use Roulette and say you get 10% cash back on any losses.)

Say you deposit €100 and play one spin on Black on Roulette

23/37 times you will win and walk away with +€100
24/37 times you will lose and get 10% back, i.e. losing a total of €90

23/37*100+24/37*-90=23/37*100+24/37*-90 = €3.78 for €100 bet, i.e. 103.78% EV.

(Obviously this sort of behaviour will most likely get you banned from receiving the cashback)

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Depends on how you play and if the cash back has any wagering requirement attached.

(for simplicity, lets use Roulette and say you get 10% cash back on any losses.)

Say you deposit €100 and play one spin on Black on Roulette

23/37 times you will win and walk away with +€100
24/37 times you will lose and get 10% back, i.e. losing a total of €90

23/37*100+24/37*-90=23/37*100+24/37*-90 = €3.78 for €100 bet, i.e. 103.78% EV.

(Obviously this sort of behaviour will most likely get you banned from receiving the cashback)
And you'll find for that reason you would be very unlikely to get it on anything other than slots losses.

GrandMaster

Ueber Meister
CAG
23/37 times you will win and walk away with +€100
24/37 times you will lose and get 10% back, i.e. losing a total of €90
Don't you mean 18/37 and 19/37?