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cashback and expected value

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by philderby1, Nov 14, 2013.

    Nov 14, 2013
  1. philderby1

    philderby1 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    factory worker
    Location:
    derby
    I have a question, if a casino is offering 10% cashback to a player, if the rtp is lets say 94% rtp then does this mean the average payout is 104% and positive EV?
     
  2. Nov 14, 2013
  3. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    No not at all. It means if you deposit 100, get the TRTP over your session of 94%, you will bust out after a few hours. You have lost 100 pounds. You get 10% cashback on your losses (this is how cashback usually works) up to a certain amount. You get £10. You have therefore turned 100 in to 10. An effective RTP (on the terms you're getting at) of 10%.

    IF you played and cashed out 50, you'd have lost 50 and therefore would get £5 cashback, giving you an RTP in your terms of 55%.

    The only way you can get the cashback is to lose, therefore you cannot ever incorporate it into a positive 100%+ RTP.
     
    1 person likes this.
  4. Nov 15, 2013
  5. wintingo

    wintingo Dormant account

    Occupation:
    player experience manager
    Location:
    Tingo Land
    It depends on how cashback is defined. In simple retail terms its "spend some money with us and we will give you back a % of the spend". I think in some casinos its % back on your losses.

    We took a different approach and applied a cashback concept with our cashpay system i.e. deposit funds and receive a % back of the deposit regardless of whether you win or lose. The only condition is you need to play/wager a certain amount to then receive the cashback. The cashback is released in real time, while you play everytime you hit the required wagering (in our case the default is $2 back for every $70 wagered) the cash is automatically added to your account. Effectively, this can have a positive effect on a players long term RTP.
     
  6. Nov 15, 2013
  7. Cogge

    Cogge Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Managing Director for CasinoEuro
    Location:
    Malta
    Depends on how you play and if the cash back has any wagering requirement attached.

    (for simplicity, lets use Roulette and say you get 10% cash back on any losses.)

    Say you deposit €100 and play one spin on Black on Roulette

    23/37 times you will win and walk away with +€100
    24/37 times you will lose and get 10% back, i.e. losing a total of €90

    So, your EV is then:

    23/37*100+24/37*-90=23/37*100+24/37*-90 = €3.78 for €100 bet, i.e. 103.78% EV.





    (Obviously this sort of behaviour will most likely get you banned from receiving the cashback)
     
  8. Nov 15, 2013
  9. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor Staff Member CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    And you'll find for that reason you would be very unlikely to get it on anything other than slots losses.
     
  10. Nov 16, 2013
  11. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    Don't you mean 18/37 and 19/37?
     

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