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Cash-Out Requirement Concerns

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by texas hooters, Jun 7, 2006.

    Jun 7, 2006
  1. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas
    There are a couple of items listed on a certain casinos list of required documents that concern me and I would like to get your input here if I may. I will copy the list and put the ones that concern me in bold print.

    Casino policy and eCOGRA requirements stipulate we obtain certain
    details from you before we can process your latest cash-in.

    Please print out the Purchase Agreement Form below, sign each page of
    it and fax it or scan & e-mail it to us along with:
    (a) a signed photocopy of both sides of your credit cards listed below,
    (not required if purchases have been made through FirePay only)
    (b) a photocopy of one of your recent utility bills
    (telephone/gas/water) which shows proof of your current address,
    (c) a photocopy of your driver's license,
    (d) a photocopy of a recent Bank statement of yours (only required if
    cash-in is greater than 10 000) and
    (e) a photocopy of any other identification document you might have
    (Social Security card / ID card / Passport) (only required if cash-in is
    greater than 10 000)


    First of all is this normal requirements for all eCOGRA sealed casinos ? And secondly I would NEVER give anyone a copy of my Social Security card and I do not have an additional ID card or Passport. And what if you do not have a bank account, how would you supply a copy of a recent bank statement ?

    If someone were lucky enough to win over 10 000 and could not supply these items does this mean they would be denied their cashout ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2006
  2. Jun 7, 2006
  3. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    That complete list seems a bit excessive but I would expect to have to provide a piece of "photo" ID and a utility bill or similar proof of residence. From recent experience, I think I just provided these two to Intercasino for my progressive win to be sent via ACH and that was enough. I think the majority of decent casinos would accept via alternatives if presented I'm sure, but if you have doubts, I'd email them to check first.

    Not being American and familar with a "Social Security" card, why would you not be prepared to provide a copy out of interest?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2006
    1 person likes this.
  4. Jun 7, 2006
  5. Let_It_Ride

    Let_It_Ride Quit Gambling

    Occupation:
    none
    Location:
    europe
    as recent posts show, even if you provide all documents there is still no guarantee you will be paid, and it seems to be a growing trend among online casinos.
     
    1 person likes this.
  6. Jun 7, 2006
  7. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Annoying

    A to C are annoying, but expected requirements now, and are stipulated in the eCogra requirements.

    D and E seem excessive, unless the bank account is being used to either fund to, or receive winnings from, the casino. If a credit card is used, a credit card statement is extra proof that you own the card. (Someone using a stolen card could still supply the back and front images, but would have difficulties with the statement!).

    E) would only apply in some countries. In the UK, there is no ID card, and many people only have a Drivers Licence, and maybe a passport. For those who have neither, it is possible to obtain a voluntary ID card from the local council, but other ID cards beyond this will be unavailable through government sources, but would be obtained from employers or businesses.

    Cashouts of 10,000 credits are large, but not excessive for some players (it depends on the sizes of the bets they are prepared to make).

    If the casino is reputable, they should be able to discuss what they are prepared to accept beyond the basic minimum.
    Yet another argument to make full verification before accepting a deposit compulsory under eCogra rules. Players could not then be in a position of not receiving a cash-in because the casino starts getting "funny" about documentary requirements.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Jun 7, 2006
  9. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    In the U.S., a Social Security number (which appears on the card) can be used to establish credit lines, get credit cards, open bank accounts, etc. Obviously, if someone unscrupulous has this number, the risk of identity theft goes through the roof.
     
    3 people like this.
  10. Jun 7, 2006
  11. ballysdb

    ballysdb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    automotive biller
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    I would like to know what you supply if you do not have any credit cards? When I first started playing at some of these casinos I had a credit card, but now I dont. I rent and have no utility bills in my name. Also, I have a post office box for my address. I also would not want to give out my social security information. FYI: A social security card has your name on it and a 9 digit number that is given to you when you are born or when your parents get one for you. It is unique to you. Someone could use that information for identity fraud. I want to know what happens if you are lucky enough to win say, $50,000? Wouldn't my bank question an ACH for that amount? I know I could leave some in my Instadebit account and play with that and I could transfer the money in small amounts. I think the bank would still question it. Any help with this question would be appreciated.
     
    1 person likes this.
  12. Jun 7, 2006
  13. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas
    The risk of idenity theft would be my reason also. Idenity theft is very big in the the US.

    But that is not possible if you use a Prepaid card like Netspend.

    I have no problem with A, B, and C and have provided these documents on many occasions for a cash out. D and E have been added to their list only recently. If A, B, and C are good enough up to 10,000 why would they need additional items for over 10,000 ? A drivers license is a picture ID so I see no need for an additional one. I personally have never cashed out more than 10,000 and more than likely this would never be a problem for me but with all the problems of nonpayment I have read about recently I would sure hate to one day happen to get really lucky and not be paid due to not being able to provide these documents.

    Thank you all for your comments I think I will take your advice and email the casino and see what they have to say about this. I will let you know what I find out.
     
  14. Jun 7, 2006
  15. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas

    If you don't have a credit card then you would never use a credit card to fund your account therefore a copy of it would not apply to you. As far as not having a utility bill and having a post office box for your address I have no idea. Before I deposited at any casino I would get those 2 items cleared up in writing from the casino.
     
    1 person likes this.
  16. Jun 7, 2006
  17. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas
    Here is my email to the casino.

    I have noticed that you have added some additional requirements for cashouts over 10,000 and am concerned that if I should happen to get lucky enough to win above that amount that I would not be paid because I could not supply you with the additional documents that you are now requiring. The two items that I am concerned with and could not provide you are: (d) a photocopy of a recent Bank statement of yours (only required if
    cash-in is greater than 10 000) and
    (e) a photocopy of any other identification document you might have
    (Social Security card / ID card / Passport) (only required if cash-in is
    greater than 10 000).

    (d) I could not supply you with a copy of a recent Bank statement because I do not have a bank account.
    (e) I would not supply you with a copy of my Social Security card due to the high risk of identity theft in the US and I do not have any other form of ID other than my drivers license.

    Before I make any further deposits into your casino I would like to have a reply from the appropriate person or persons as to how this situation would be handled if it should occur. Thank You.

    Here is the casinos reply.

    Please note that this is a casino policy and as per eCOGRA requirements

    stipulates that we obtain those documents as specified.



    Should you have any further queries, please feel free to contact the Support Desk, at anytime.



    Kind Regards,

    What I would like to know is how can I find out if eCOGRA requires this of all casinos ?
     
  18. Jun 7, 2006
  19. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    Believe it or not, I think you ought to ask eCOGRA that - and use their response to justify or deny the casino's claims :)
     
  20. Jun 7, 2006
  21. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas

    Thank You Spear I will do that ! :)
     
  22. Jun 7, 2006
  23. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    My reading of the eGAP requirements of eCOGRA show:

    So they are partly correct - but there is nothing that defines exactly what documentation must be produced to constitute "properly identified".

    I'd say that they're rightly covering their asses there.
     
    1 person likes this.
  24. Jun 7, 2006
  25. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas

    Thank You for the info Spear ! Looks like I will have to discontinue my online gaming because I refuse to give anyone a copy of my Social Security Card.
     
  26. Jun 7, 2006
  27. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    You don't have to do that... LOL... simply cash out less than 10K at a time :thumbsup:
     
  28. Jun 7, 2006
  29. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    But there is also something about a series of linked transactions in excess of $10000.

    Texas Hooters: Have you talked to the casino? Can you get a state ID if you don't have a driving license?
     
  30. Jun 7, 2006
  31. spearmaster

    spearmaster RIP Ted

    Occupation:
    Devil's Advocate
    Location:
    Heaven
    You're right. Gotta see exactly what a linked transaction is and over what period of time.

    Also, some time ago it was quite easy to get state ID without having to obtain a driver's license - at least in California. I don't see why anything should have changed since that time, I would think getting state ID would be something all states would offer...
     
  32. Jun 7, 2006
  33. derelict

    derelict Dormant account

    Occupation:
    ..
    Location:
    ....
    Driver's license is already listed separately under (c). The OP seemed to be concerned with the requirement of the "other identification document" under (e).

    I agree, this is unusually excessive.
     
    1 person likes this.
  34. Jun 7, 2006
  35. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas

    LOL :thumbsup:



    I have provided them with a drivers license.
     
  36. Jun 7, 2006
  37. texas hooters

    texas hooters Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Oil and Gas
    Location:
    Texas

    Exactly !
     
  38. Jun 7, 2006
  39. Macgyver

    Macgyver Dormant account PABnononaccred

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    North Carolina
    The only thing I could see as a way around this (and I would be very hesitant to actually do it myself) ...

    Scan your SS card and black out all the numbers except the last four. That should be enough to verify what they need. I've seen faxback forms for RTG casinos ask players for these last four digits, actually.

    Again, I more than likely wouldn't provide it myself, but it's a thought I just had. :thumbsup:
     
    1 person likes this.

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