Carnival trying to rip me off - advice please

copper007

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Location
England
Carnival sent me an email promotion offering a 200% bonus.

I cut and pasted the terms (but unfortunately didnt take a screenshot)

Here is the cut and paste

April 2nd 00:01 - April 15th 23:59 EST (casino Time)

All PLAY BONUS credits are for wagering purposes only. Bonuses will automatically be removed from players account after a withdrawal request.

Only recipients of this promotional email are eligible for the bonus.
Bonuses will only be given on deposits of $// 20 (R150) or more. You cannot claim any other bonus in-conjunction with this promotion, including the first deposit bonus.

This promotion is valid for 1 deposit only.
The maximum amount of bonuses you can receive is $// 200 (R1200).
Wagering requirements are 30x the deposit and bonus before withdrawing any winnings.

Bets in all forms of Baccarat, Craps, Roulette and Sic Bo do not count towards the wagering requirements of this bonus. The casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the players original deposit from a players withdrawal if the Bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully.

Management reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time. Management's decision is final.
I played video poker and withdrew 1080 after the sticking bonus was removed, toady I received this email

Dear Adam,



My name is Chris I am your Carnival Casino manager, unfortunately, your withdrawal request can not be processed, since you have wagered your bonus money, and won, on a restricted games -Video Poker Double.



As mentioned in Carnival Casino Bonus terms of use, Bets placed in the games in all forms of Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Sic Bo, Pontoon, Casino War and Video Poker Double do not fulfill players' obligations with regards to the minimum wagering requirements

The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully. Please see the website link :
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Since you did not contact to have the bonus removed before playing the restricted game, as advised, we have no other option except removing the winnings from your balance
I double checked the email link and they've updated their terms between April 6th when I played. and now to reflect their claim, but basically I played an allowed game and now they've double tracked to steal my 980 winnings, how should I go about addressing this problem? Advice please. Thanks Ad
 

Da_Gambla

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Los Angeles
It's going to be on YOU to prove they had other T&C's when you signed up and first started playing.

I'd go the sneaky route, and try to get a staff member to tell you when they updated their T&C. Be anonymous... try:

"Hi! I signed up a month ago or so and received a bonus. I haven't had time to login for awhile, but noticed your terms had changed. It now says Video Poker Double is no longer valid for play-through. Can you verify this is now the policy, and can you tell me when this changed?"

If you get someone to slip and say the T&C was changed on a date AFTER your first wager, you have a VERY legitimate bitch, and should be paid. If they don't slip up, it will be hard to prove it without a screenshot. Good luck!

- Keith
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Google spidered and cached the index page on the 8th.. no help. Internet Archive has no pages archived in 2007...
As it was a link from email it may not have been indexed or archived by the engines anyway.

Like Keith says, the copy and paste doesn't hold much water compared to a screenshot.

Again, have you tried live chat and asked to talk to Chris?

Has anyone else had experience with Carnival?

Good luck:thumbsup:
 

java1980

Banned user - fraudster - rogue webmaster
Joined
Jan 8, 2007
Location
canada
yeah a very bad experience with them. not a trustworthy place. i wiould send them my id docs via email and they decline that they have recieved them. and asked me to fax them. if i fax them they will complain that not clear docs. so they played games like this for over a month. and finally got paid.
avoid at all costs.
 

copper007

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Location
England
hi guys thanks for your input. I dont know how to check old spidered internet files, but this was the link which has been altered. If anyone has the original screen shot I would love to have a copy
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
from an email titled
Come on over for some b-o-n-u-s-e-s!
I have emailed the casino banking manager (no response yet ) after that i will pitch a bitch.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Still can't find anything.

If you use google you can type in the casino name and in the returned results you'll see 'cached' and 'similar pages' under the description.

I was able to find the april 5 link above (no help) by doing an advanced search.

I would still suggest live chat or phoning them if it will be toll free. Emails are bad at even some good casinos.

Java1980 eventually got paid. Maybe he has some tips for you.

edit: checked the html source on the page and they didn't timestamp it or leave any other clues I could find
 

mikepipe

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Location
still progressing
i found the old t and cs from dec 12005:
Carnival Casino reserves the right to change the terms and conditions of this offer at any time and it is your responsibility to periodically check here for changes and updates.

Using the player's deposit and bonus funds to wager on Craps (all sorts of Craps) , Roulette (all sorts of Roulette), Sic Bo (all sorts of Sic Bo), Blackjack (all sorts of Blackjack) and Baccarat (all sorts of Baccarat), Jacks or Better (all sorts of Jacks or Better), Aces and Faces (all sorts of Aces and Faces), and Deuces Wild (all sorts of Deuces Wild) does not fulfill the player's obligations with regard to the minimum wagering requirements for $ and .

Please Note that only players from Great Britain may deposit with s (GBPs).

The bonus credits are for wagering purpose only, and you may not cash out the bonus. You may only cash out your winnings. Only withdrawal of an amount superior to the Play Bonus will be processed, and the Play bonus will be deducted from your withdrawal request.

The casino reserves the right to review transaction records and logs from time to time, for any reason whatsoever. If, upon such review, it appears that player/s are participating in strategies that the casino in its sole discretion deems to be abusive, the casino reserves the right to revoke the entitlement of such player to the promotion.

In the event of a dispute, all decisions made by the casino will be final.


there is very useful tool, which was posted by a forum member (sorry - forgot, who it was - - Zoozie??!)

try it yourself:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
The internet archive is AWESOME. There are old movies and cartoons there, scads of music, old propaganda films, (duck and cover, etc.) etc.
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
gets you there and the 'wayback machine' is web.archive.org

Great place to kill time

Here are some German films
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
 
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Change

I think they have come under new management.

They are now seemingly run by "Enter Casino", and include a whole nest of former "rogues" in the stable. The description of the bonus mailer looks the same as the ones I get from Enter Casino. I did play there a little, but then smelled a large rodent and quit. I was then phoned and offered a very large and very "special" bonus, which is one of the things to look out for in the "spot a rogue" guide. I later received a mailer that marked the takeover, and invited me to sign up with the lavish bonuses at all the Sister casinos. One look at these "sisters" was enough to put me off for good, as the list included many of the "spammers" that had been bombarding my mailbox along with brands that have had past issues of non-payment by pulling obscure terms out of the hat.
It now looks like they have changed terms recently, but made this retrospective, and applied them to void winnings from a player who played a game that was allowed at the time the bonus was redeemed.
I am not interested in play bonuses with long lists of game exclusions, and even less interested in casinos that seem to think it OK to change the rules between deposit and withdrawal, and then void winnings based on the new rules.
 

cyprean

Banned User
PABnononaccred
Joined
Jul 31, 2006
Location
Sun/Moon
Excuse me but what how does finding their old T&Cs help the player? I know you wanna help but..

If Carnival sends written e-mail promotions, they should respect the rules they have given in that specific promotion.

Playtechs, especially Carnival-likes, love to advert promos with GREAT terms and not respect the tules. Usually their live help is clueless. It's when you cash out you realize it's only Slots or whatever.
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
Excuse me but what how does finding their old T&Cs help the player? I know you wanna help but..

If Carnival sends written e-mail promotions, they should respect the rules they have given in that specific promotion.

Playtechs, especially Carnival-likes, love to advert promos with GREAT terms and not respect the tules. Usually their live help is clueless. It's when you cash out you realize it's only Slots or whatever.
As I understood it, the terms weren't in the email. The email contained a ink to the offer. If he were to have a copy of the offer as it was presented to him (time travel) he would have more ammo.

As far as I can tell he hasn't tried everything he can yet to contact them and resolve it.

I don't have any experience with playtechs. But like you said, just trying to help:)
 

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
I double checked the email link and they've updated their terms between April 6th when I played. and now to reflect their claim, but basically I played an allowed game and now they've double tracked to steal my 980 winnings, how should I go about addressing this problem? Advice please. Thanks Ad
There are many ways to lookup old websites besides archive.org and google cache. Here is a summary of the T&C from 3/30/07 (from live.com). If the promotions email listed different terms, then it could either be an intentional rule difference that some at Carnival were not aware of, or a sloppy email promotions writer.

€//$ 777 Welcome Bonus!

* On your 1st deposit, receive a 100% match bonus worth up to €//$ 200
* On your 2nd deposit, receive a 50% match bonus worth up to €//$ 577
* The bonus may not be combined with any other bonus unless stated otherwise
* In the interest of fair gaming, wagering requirements are 12x (times) your deposit plus play bonus before cashing out any amount higher than your initial deposit amount. (20x for GBP)
* Bets placed on all forms of Baccarat, Live Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Sic Bo, Pontoon, Casino War and Video Poker Double do not count towards the wagering requirement.
* The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully.
...
 
Last edited:

aka23

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 12, 2006
Location
Planet Earth
I think they have come under new management.

They are now seemingly run by "Enter Casino", and include a whole nest of former "rogues" in the stable.
Enter Casino, Carnival, and Club Dice are all owned by Empire Online. I consider Empire below average, but several steps above rogue.
 

Da_Gambla

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 23, 2007
Location
Los Angeles
There are many ways to lookup old websites besides archive.org and google cache. Here is a summary of the T&C from 3/30/07 (from live.com):

//$ 777 Welcome Bonus!

* On your 1st deposit, receive a 100% match bonus worth up to //$ 200
* On your 2nd deposit, receive a 50% match bonus worth up to //$ 577
* The bonus may not be combined with any other bonus unless stated otherwise
* In the interest of fair gaming, wagering requirements are 12x (times) your deposit plus play bonus before cashing out any amount higher than your initial deposit amount. (20x for GBP)
* Bets placed on all forms of Baccarat, Live Baccarat, Craps, Roulette, Sic Bo, Pontoon, Casino War and Video Poker Double do not count towards the wagering requirement.
* The Casino reserves the right to withhold any amount in excess of the player's original deposit from a player's withdrawal if the bonus is wagered on the above games, before the wagering on allowed games is completed fully.
...
If that's from March 30th, and copper played from April 6th to now, this doesn't look good for copper...

- Keith
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
He claims he copied them and that they changed them later. The link he shared shows Video Double Poker disallowed as does the March link.
 

copper007

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 20, 2006
Location
England
Just to clarify, I do have the email, which had a link to the terms and conditions which I posted. Since I played they have altered the page which the email has linked to. Still no reply from Carnival after 24hrs.

Thanks for all the replys here.
 

sdaddy

Meister Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2005
Location
Arizona
Just to clarify, I do have the email, which had a link to the terms and conditions which I posted. Since I played they have altered the page which the email has linked to.
Just so there's no misunderstanding, the address of the page which the email was linked to was
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
, right?

And if that's the case, what is your explanation of why a March 30th archive of that page includes language disallowing Video Poker Double?
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
Just why does the burden of proof be on the player? The casino offered a bonus with explicit terms and the player accepted it. It is wrong to simply state that the casino can change the terms as and when they wish. Rather, they should have stated an expiry date on the offer. Any alterations to the terms should be stated afresh in a new offer. If they had wanted to alter the terms of a particular offer, they should have used all possible means to communicate this to the intended players through issuing a subsequent e-mail to those that had been offered the promotion in question. It is irresponsible to say that they changed the terms of offer and the player was too naive not to take notice by visiting the site. Even if he had and deposited 10 minutes later, it is still possible that they were changed in the interim.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 1)

Top