can someone please explain?

sattty

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Location
wakefield
ive read a few threads lately that talk about chargebacks

can someone please explain what this is

my reading of it..is someone deposits into casino looses then trys to get there money back somehow....:confused:
 

anniemac

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Jan 30, 2007
Location
Texas, USA
Satty,

That's pretty much the definition, except that sometimes in the US the bank will chargeback your deposit if they feel that it's gambling related or throws up a flag somehow. You didn't do it, the bank did.

In the casinos eyes, it's pretty much the same thing.

If you do it, you have to dispute the charges thru your bank or credit card. Bad thing to do.
 

sattty

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Location
wakefield
so basicly its just someone trying to cheat the casino out of there money cos they have lost..

not surprised it is frowned upon...

thanks for clearing that up for me
 

baldidiot

Full Member
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Oct 1, 2010
Location
London
Essentially it's just fraud - the player deposits, loses and then decides to call the bank and say that it wasn't them that made the deposit. The banks generally side with the player and the casino loses their money as well as getting a notch in their charge back column (too many charge backs can result in a casino losing a processor).

Regardless of whether the chargeback was pre-meditated (ie: they made the deposit with the intention of charging back if they lost) or not, the end result is the same.

You also have situations such as the one anniemac described where it wasn't the player that initiated the chargeback.
 

sattty

Experienced Member
Joined
Oct 4, 2011
Location
wakefield
id have thought most banks would require the account holder to at least report it to the police if there saying they did not make the deposit then thats fraud and theft in its own right..surely they have some kind of safe guards in place before simply listening to account holder and cheating the casino out of there money
 

baldidiot

Full Member
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Oct 1, 2010
Location
London
In theory a legitimate charge back could be a lot of things that wouldn't need police involvement - such as a banking error or double charge. Weird charges do happen, and it would be a PITA if you had to get a police report every time.

Even when I had my credit card number stolen I didn't have to do anything - the CC company just called me up one day and said "we think your card details have been stolen, did you make these purchases: xxx". I said no and that was the end of it for me - charges instantly gone and new cc in the post.
 

anniemac

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Most banks, after you fine a dispute, then the bank contacts the other party and they have 30 days to respond. However, if you tell the bank that someone stole your card/account number/ card number etc and used it for gambling then they are more than happy to deny the charges and credit the money back to your account to keep their behinds out of trouble. (No I've never done one, just read alot.)

Or, they just take it upon themselves to do it and that's another can of worms.
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
Possible Chargeback Loophole

In theory, chargebacks are there to prevent customers from 'errors' by vendors.

Over the years, it has happened to me on a number of occassions. Double charging and in one case (with an accredited casino), I was charged over £2,000 having not logged on for several weeks. As you can imagine, I was not too chuffed but it got resolved with a little compensation as well. :)

I think that somes players, if they were honest, may see chargebacks as a 'loophole' to claiming back losses. Although I agree with a previous post in that this is technically fraud, I believe there is an area that could be 'legitimately' pursued.

When you deposit at a casino, often the name appearing on your credit card is NOT the name of the casino. We all know why they do this and it's being discussed before - it's a way of 'disguising' the transaction often so as not to appear as a gambling one. There are many reasons for this - legislation within the country in question, to stop transactions being declined etc.

Sometimes these 'ficticious names' are not the same as advised when you make the transaction e.g. the message comes up "your transaction will appear as playpoker.com or playblackjack.com or etc. but it actually comes in as fruitshop.com. If you are not advised of the correct name at the outset, you could legitimately complain to the credit card company that you don't know who the transaction is for. In this instance, the credit card company would go back to the casino. It is unlikely that the casino would pursue the matter (outside of asking you to accept it) as they arguably shouldn't be trying to 'trick' the credit card companies to begin with. Even if you are told you will be charged as fruitshop.com, you could still lodge a complaint with the credit card company as the casino should not be using a 'front' to 'trick' credit card companies.

Of course, it is not against any law for casinos (or any company for that matter) to use trading names for their companies. However, when this is done purely to maximise the transactions that are passed, I believe that by default, they are encouraging players to mislead their own credit card companies by helping them make the transaction to begin with.

Clearly if you pursue chargebacks, it will be looked at very dimly by the casinos and be prepared to have your account suspended and blacklisted. However, last month.....with one accredited casino.....I have received 5 different names on my credit card statements for transactions I have made. Sorry, this doesn't really seem right and if pursued, I suspect that the credit card companies would refund back the money and it is unlikely the casino in question would pursue further.

Morals is a tricky one when it comes to casinos because it normally relates to whether you have won or lost....!

Julester
 

Realitybitez

Full Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Location
New Zealand
I'd never heard of charge backs either until I joined this forum

I'm not sure you can do charge backs in my country, our banks hold you liable for your credit cards until the moment you report them missing (up to $2000 I think) and it involves police reports etc etc Lots of red tape:eek2:

Besides unlike the USA, my banks couldnt care less where I spend my money - Im forever explaining to them certain oversea transactons are to my casinos and please stop locking my cards, its really annoying:lolup::p
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
Sorry!

I'm not sure you can do charge backs in my country, our banks hold you liable for your credit cards until the moment you report them missing (up to $2000 I think) and it involves police reports etc etc Lots of red tape:eek2:

Besides unlike the USA, my banks couldnt care less where I spend my money - Im forever explaining to them certain oversea transactons are to my casinos and please stop locking my cards, its really annoying:lolup::p

Apologies, my post was aimed at UK players - should have made that clear! I don't know about the legislation in other countries etc....
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
In theory, chargebacks are there to prevent customers from 'errors' by vendors.

Over the years, it has happened to me on a number of occassions. Double charging and in one case (with an accredited casino), I was charged over £2,000 having not logged on for several weeks. As you can imagine, I was not too chuffed but it got resolved with a little compensation as well. :)

I think that somes players, if they were honest, may see chargebacks as a 'loophole' to claiming back losses. Although I agree with a previous post in that this is technically fraud, I believe there is an area that could be 'legitimately' pursued.

When you deposit at a casino, often the name appearing on your credit card is NOT the name of the casino. We all know why they do this and it's being discussed before - it's a way of 'disguising' the transaction often so as not to appear as a gambling one. There are many reasons for this - legislation within the country in question, to stop transactions being declined etc.

Sometimes these 'ficticious names' are not the same as advised when you make the transaction e.g. the message comes up "your transaction will appear as playpoker.com or playblackjack.com or etc. but it actually comes in as fruitshop.com. If you are not advised of the correct name at the outset, you could legitimately complain to the credit card company that you don't know who the transaction is for. In this instance, the credit card company would go back to the casino. It is unlikely that the casino would pursue the matter (outside of asking you to accept it) as they arguably shouldn't be trying to 'trick' the credit card companies to begin with. Even if you are told you will be charged as fruitshop.com, you could still lodge a complaint with the credit card company as the casino should not be using a 'front' to 'trick' credit card companies.

Of course, it is not against any law for casinos (or any company for that matter) to use trading names for their companies. However, when this is done purely to maximise the transactions that are passed, I believe that by default, they are encouraging players to mislead their own credit card companies by helping them make the transaction to begin with.

Clearly if you pursue chargebacks, it will be looked at very dimly by the casinos and be prepared to have your account suspended and blacklisted. However, last month.....with one accredited casino.....I have received 5 different names on my credit card statements for transactions I have made. Sorry, this doesn't really seem right and if pursued, I suspect that the credit card companies would refund back the money and it is unlikely the casino in question would pursue further.

Morals is a tricky one when it comes to casinos because it normally relates to whether you have won or lost....!

Julester

Well this would be OK if you LEGITIMATELY did not know the origin of the transaction.

What you describe regarding your last 5 transactions shows that you KNOW those charges are casino deposits, hence if you dispute them it is exactly the same as if the transactions read "accreditedcasino.com". It's not a loophole really, it is an excuse to be dishonest and fraudulent.

I just hope someone reading this doesn't consider it a great way to replenish their bankroll.
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
Well....

I am not advocating that anyone does this and agree (if you read my original post) that it would technically be fraud.

However, I am not sure that casinos should be able to mislead credit card companies either. Is this also not a touch fraudulent.....or misrepresentation at the very least.

There are moral issues here. Credit
card companies have different rules. Some large well known establishments will not allow gambling transactions on the grounds of their social / ethical policies. If casinos bypass these policies deliberately, you have to ask yourself who is the worst culprit.

On the subject of knowing exactly what is what, if you, like I, place dozens of credit card deposits each month, it is a serious pain trying to work out which one belongs to which casino etc.

The reality is that the nature of casinos means that there are many grey areas. Of course, you shouldnt charge back transactions you know are correct. Equally though (and yes, one thing has nothing to do with another), casinos should have a reverse withdrawal option which, bar a few exceptions, is there to ensure you plough back your winnings.

Julester
 

julester

Dormant account
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Location
London
To add.....

Having re-read my original post, I can see that it could be taken the wrong way. Once again, I am not advocating that a player should do this - its just my assessment of what would happen if they did.

That aside, I believe that the way in which many 'reputable' casinos treat their players would not be tolerated in other businesses.

Ultimately, both the player and the casino live and die by their actions!
 
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