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Casino Complaint Bwin previous self excluded account and allowed to play with a new one...

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by relents, Jul 17, 2014.

    Jul 17, 2014
  1. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands
    Hi there,

    So like many people I have had my ups and downs with gambling. The downs to the extent where I self excluded myself from numerous websites permanently a few years ago! It would be impossible to list/remember them all because it was a spree!

    I have been betting and playing with Bwin.com on my account where I deposited numerous times and lost every time. Anyhow, I accidentally logged onto my old account (my new account and old account have 1 digit different) and realized my old account was under PERMANENT self exclusion for problem gambling.

    I then rang the customer services who informed me the reason I was able to bet is because.

    1. The address on my excluded account was my University address and different to my new account.
    2. The name was Tom instead of Thomas'

    They then told me that I had broken strict T and A's and instantly locked my account. I then proceeded to question them what happened if I had won any money? they told me it would be completely void and not paid to myself.

    Now SURELY if they would not pay winnings that would make all my bets and the money I spent void, therefor they should refund my deposits?!


    They felt uneasy to question this and told me they would be in contact with me in 72 hours.

    I am also previously excluded from more bwin partner sites such as partypoker.

    My question is..

    Where do I stand on getting my deposits back?


    Please no trolls, IF my account was not locked and I was eligible to withdraw winnings this would not be a problem.


    Kind regards,
     
  2. Jul 17, 2014
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    They have to determine whether this is a genuine lapse, or part of a growing scam where players deliberately try to bypass the exclusion to play, withdraw if they win, but claim they should not have been allowed to play when they have lost and expect their money back.

    This scam has become SO bad that it was featured in a CM webcast.

    You used a different address, and perhaps more oddly, a different NAME, when registering the new account. This would of course bypass the automated self exclusion, and they will have to decide whether you knew this and deliberately used a variation of your name and a different address than in the past to slip past the self exclusion.

    Because of this scam, casinos are no longer refunding deposits as a matter of course, hence the 72 hour wait whilst they look into the matter.
     
    3 people like this.
  4. Jul 17, 2014
  5. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    I will not consider myself a troll but you will not like what I have to say.

    You knew that you had excluded yourself from several sites before. Why in the world didn't you ask if you have had a previous account at Bwin before signing up again?

    To me it automaticly looks like you try to be in a winwin situation.
    If you had won and they payed you then everything would have been fine.
    If they caught you then you could claim like you do now...that you want your deposits back since you never could have gotten your winnings.

    You played and lost like all other gamblers so I say move on, stop gambling, or at least act responsibly.
     
    7 people like this.
  6. Jul 17, 2014
  7. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    It's your own doing, BUT I thought that in case like this reputable sites should follow the UKGC RG guidelines and neutralize the account, take no bets and pay no winnings. I know Paddy Power do and some others. There are many details to an account but some have more diligent checks than others. Many will flag any ONE detail connected with an excluded account like phone no. or address so you wouldn't get as far as you did. You had a couple of details slightly different and the system couldn't flag it which is poor.
    Saying that, I have to ask (before others do) why you deliberately varied your name - was this something you did to cement the fact you could now use a different address too?
    Would you have even posted here had you won AND been paid?

    You obviously need to stay clear of gaming sites, so maybe do yourself a favour and start now and don't try to go across any more burned bridges...
     
    4 people like this.
  8. Jul 17, 2014
  9. The Viking

    The Viking Ueber Meister MM

    Occupation:
    chef
    Location:
    Faroe Islands
    just curios, why did you open a new account ? surely you know that multiplies accounts are not allowed
    im sorry to say but i reckon there is nothing you can do, perhaps someone else knows better.
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. Jul 17, 2014
  11. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands
    Basically the issue with the different name was that when I first signed up I was at university and new to the website.

    I used Tom which is short for my name, a few years later I signed up using my full name and my home address.

    I am self excluded with my FULL name exactly the same of other accounts on other of their partner websites. Which yes if they linked together like cassava did I would of not been able to have my account with Bwin.

    I understand and appreciate the comments, but struggling to see where its a win win situation for myself? as if I won the funds and had a previous self excluded account the winnings would automatically be void and I would not be entitled to them.
     
  12. Jul 17, 2014
  13. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands
    Yea, this is a mistake I made. I did not realize I still had a account with Bwin. I have used the majority of betting websites.
     
  14. Jul 17, 2014
  15. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    I'd like to say yes you should get your deposits back, but there are two things that the casino might look at. First that you opened a new account with a different name and address - that makes it look like you knew that you had a self excluded account and you were trying to bypass security checks at signup. Second is that at the end of last year there were a bunch of casinos hit by players who self excluded, slipped back in and played - if they won and could cash out they did nothing, if they won and winnings were confiscated or if they lost, they demanded their money back. Risk free gambling. Also could be used as money laundering depending on the amount of money involved.

    I'm not saying that's what happened, I'm just saying that this is what the casinos have to deal with. Speculating about what the casino should do gets you no further ahead. If I were you, I'd just wait for word back from the casino to see if they'll return your deposits, and if they don't and you want to carry it further, you could PAB.

    EDIT: I forgot to press the 'post' button and now I see a bunch of different people said the same thing!
     
    3 people like this.
  16. Jul 17, 2014
  17. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands

    This is true. If they had paid me (even though I had not won or tried to withdraw anything) I would not be here. But if you have a good experience with something are you going to be inclined to leave a good review or would you be more motivated to leave a review if you had a bad experience....


    No offense, but saying that I deliberately varied my name, I find that quite offensive. I signed up to the account initially when I was living away at university hence I used my university accommodation address and regarding the name, I still use Tom on things and also Thomas, something that I have never thought would cause me a issue?

    The 'tom' account as I previously said I completely forgot about it.

    Again, thank you for the information.
     
  18. Jul 17, 2014
  19. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands

    Again , thanks for the information. What is a PAB?

    Also, if it helps. If I knew what I was doing using the risk free betting or scamming then would I be asking for advise on a public forum regarding the matter?

    It is a honest genuine mistake regarding the duplicate account
     
  20. Jul 17, 2014
  21. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    PAB is short for Pitch-A-Bitch, it's the mediation service that Casinomeister offers. Here's all the info about it: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/faq.php?faq=cmfaq_pab
     
  22. Jul 17, 2014
  23. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands

    Thanks,

    I will bare that in mind! I am actually really impressed with this forum and its members.
     
  24. Jul 17, 2014
  25. dunover

    dunover Unofficial T&C's Editor CAG PABnononaccred PABnonaccred PABinit mm3 webmeister

    Occupation:
    International Money Launderer
    Location:
    the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
    As somebody pointed out, there is a nasty little scam being tried where players are opening duplicate accounts at sites where they have SE'd. When they win they often get paid if unnoticed. If they lose, they then inform the casino they were SE'd and then appeal to get deposits back. You will have to be aware that due to this your complaint will really go through the wringer.

    You found my post re. deliberately altering details offensive. Well, those who know these loopholes are usually experienced players and have been through the SE process with many sites the last time they 'vowed to quit' and subsequently found that some security systems will allow new account with just ONE detail different. You may be one, you may be not. But please be aware that members here have seen every multi-accounter, every SE trick, every ID fraudster and those using CM as leverage against casinos. Therefore cynicism is justified in the majority of instances.
     
    5 people like this.
  26. Jul 17, 2014
  27. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands

    Absolutely, and I respect that.

    I will keep this thread up to date with information received if any one is interested?
     
    1 person likes this.
  28. Jul 17, 2014
  29. chayton

    chayton aka LooHoo CAG PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    Freelance Designer
    Location:
    Edmonton Canada
    Yes please. And in the future before opening an account at a casino, please check with support to see if you have one first. It's really the safest bet - even if you haven't self excluded and you open an account when you already have one (whether it's closed or not) it's a good reason for a casino to void any potential winnings.

    I actually made that mistake myself at a couple of casinos when I first started playing online - of course I didn't use a different name so it was caught right away and the duplicate was closed before I'd actually won anything.
     
  30. Jul 18, 2014
  31. alexking12k

    alexking12k Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Commodities trader
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Ok, this is very simple. You will NOT get your deposits back. I understand what you are saying above and I agree with you but this is the way it works. End of story.
     
  32. Jul 18, 2014
  33. relents

    relents Dormant account

    Occupation:
    teacheer
    Location:
    midlands
    Interested to know your inside information to 'HOW IT WORKS' ....... and first hand experience or education into this?
     
  34. Jul 18, 2014
  35. paul7388

    paul7388 Meister Member MM

    Occupation:
    not a lot
    Location:
    glasgow scotland
    I do not really see what the casino has done wrong and why they should pay your deposits back. You signed up again using a different name and address from first account so no surprise it never registered you were the same person at first. Then you gambled and lost now you want your deposits back. Maybe if you had signed up again using same name and address and got a new account id say maybe you should get money back but not giving fact its different. Fact is whether you are self excluded or not you broke all their terms by making a duplicate account which is not allowed so why should they pay your lost deposits back. The casino acted responsibly by shutting your new account as soon as they knew you were the same person as the one that had self excluded permanently.
     
    3 people like this.
  36. Jul 21, 2014
  37. alexking12k

    alexking12k Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Commodities trader
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Been through it a few times like many other gamblers.
     
  38. Jul 21, 2014
  39. BMWSTACK

    BMWSTACK Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    Work
    Location:
    US
    Having a hard time buying into this accident.

    1) You have "deposited numerous times and lost everytime." ---- Just the way you say it make it sound like the typical "I can never win" angry, upset tone. Except you have a loophole on your losses. You originally had to be depositing and losing to self exclude yourself. You obviously had a problem. Old problems easily come back to life. You conveniently "accidently" logged into your old account after making all these deposits and losing.

    2) You accidently put in your old account # 1 digit off. --- This happened after you deposited and lost, numerous times. My social security # is one digit off from someone elses. I don't accidently give out someones elses ss# by accident, not to mention you just happened to "accidently" key in the exact perfect # to access your old account from years ago.

    3) You rang customer service on your own accord. --- The only reason you contacted them was to get your deposits back. If you had "winnings on your other account and accidently logged in, you would have not contacted and crossed your fingers that you would get paid.

    Furthermore in reference to setting up the account, they had different information address and name to open up another account.

    I can see that you understand the online gambling world quite well. Could you have known what you were doing and started to set up accounts again now that you had a different address, and instead of using your full name you now use it abbreviated "Tom"? Its a possibility. Do you use your full name on all your bills and formal documents, and previous casino accounts? Most people I know use their full official name on accounts and bills. Yes I am saying there is a possibility that you did this to throw them off.

    You even say that you know you have other bwin accounts like party poker. A large name like party poker is hard to forget.

    Why are you posting this here if not intentional? Why not set up a new CM account and get some exposure on Bwin to help get back those deposits.

    Ok so Im not saying this is the truth, but this is my skepticism. Even if this wasn't the truth you should not get your deposits back. Your not 5 years old. You knew what you were doing when you pressed the deposit button. Whether your story is accurate or not its still a case of sore loser.
     
    2 people like this.

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