Bwin kicking Canadian players out of the long-lasting tournament?

Bagalya

Dormant account
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Ontario
I am a Canadian player registered at Bwin casino. This morning I got the following email from Bwin:

We regret to inform you that, due to the introduction of new regulations, operations of the Download Casino will cease as of 24.09.2010. There is good news, though! You can continue to enjoy your favourite games as normal in the bwin Instant Play Casino. And to make the transition even sweeter, we'll be offering you a 100% Welcome Bonus. Get ready to switch now.

They may have some good reasons behind this move or some circumstances beyond their control. But they also have this BlackJack Grand Prix tournament

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


which started in March. Since then 14 tours were played on 14 different weekends. Entree fees were paid, time was spent, points were gained. And now, with just less then 2 months and 5 tours remaining before the 50,000 euro prize pool is shared, they are kicking me from the race. Effectively. Because it can only be played from within downloaded casino.

Their phone support is clueless. Emails remain unanswered or answers are not helpful. Their CasinoMeister representative's account is dormant, although bwin is still accredited here.

Time is running out, as the next Tour is this Sunday, September 26th. What should I do? Any help is appreciated.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
That seems to be the only logical explanation, because why would 'new regulations' in Canada ban download but not instant play online casino action?

Boss Media has been part of GTechG2 for a while now, along with St Minver, Dynamite Idea and Finsoft.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
That seems to be the only logical explanation, because why would 'new regulations' in Canada ban download but not instant play online casino action?

Boss Media has been part of GTechG2 for a while now, along with St Minver, Dynamite Idea and Finsoft.

This seems yet again a case of a company LYING to deflect blame away from itself for decisions it makes that "screw" their customers.

Red Flush were running a tournament during the summer, and suddenly announced it would finish early because of "unforseen circumstances". It turned out that these "unforseen circumstances" were MGS deciding to transfer all USA based players to new software. Red Flush reacted to ensure that ALL players had a chance to complete the tournament.

Bwin could easily do the same, ending the tournement early so that ALL players stand a fair chance of getting the top prize.

They could also enable play in the "instant" casino to count towards the tournament.

I know of no "regulations" anywhere that ban play in a download casino, yet allow it in a browser. Lawmakers target ALL forms of casino gambling in any regulations they pass.

The regulations passed in the US, and those that exist in Canada, have never differentiated between non-download and download casinos. In the USA, it is the wore act & UIGEA, and in Canada it seems to be the case that although it is not specifically illegal, it is not specifically LEGAL either, so there exists a "grey area" that causes different operators to make their OWN DECISIONS as to whether or not they will serve the Canadian market.
 

Vetal

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Toronto
As for today, I keep 3rd position in this tournament. But I think I got nothing because I'm Canadian.
As far as I got an email from bwin I start writing and calling theme. By phone you can reach only 2 girls (that's not a big stuff for a company like bwin) who even don't know what kind of tournament they have. The only answer you can get from CS: "...we don't know, we send this information to appropriate department..." Quality of connection is poor, you need to repeat one and the same thing again and again.
Also I sent 4 emails for 2 days. Guess what. No reply. But I got 2 or 3 emails from bwin with spam.
Next tournament is 23-26 Sep. Have no idea what to do.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
There are at least two players affected by this issue. Might I suggest you both PAB? Seems to be beating your head against a brick wall currently.

If BWin is unable to permit you to continue to play, there must be some compensation awarded for tournaments that required entry fees.

IMO this compensation should not be limited to a return of the entry fee, but some sort of compensation based on your protential winnings.

The PAB is there to decide a fair outcome, and in this case I believe Maxd could help negotiate something fair for all parties.

It is speculation on my part, but I suspect that some of the "regulations" are actually related to providing or bidding on government contracts for the online casino in BC and the upcoming one for Ontario.
 

Vetal

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Toronto
I got lucky to find someone in bwin who does understand anything in that tournament. The main concern the bwin has now (I hope) what would be fair to kick out all Canadian players with nothing or to split pot right now. As I understand they think it would be more fair to complete tournament because they think it would be fair to all others but Canadians. Opposite to finish up a tournament right now would be fair to Canadians but all others.

But I found that according to Tournament Terms & Conditions it would be fair enough to finish up it right now:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


The type and dates of the promotion are subject to change or revocation at any time without notification of reason. Should the promotion be ended prematurely, the prize pool for the overall rankings will be calculated based on the number of “Blackjack Grand Prix – EUR 3,000 Guaranteed” tournaments already completed, e.g. if 50% of the tournaments have already been completed, the prize money for the overall rankings will be EUR 25,000.
 

Bagalya

Dormant account
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Ontario
Weird things are going on. They did allow me to play this weekend (Tour number 15). I gained another 25 points. But there was no email, no phone calls, no explanation. I just played as usual. Old emails still not answered. The only thing I got from them was another advertisement, which looked pretty generic.

Vetal, were you able to play too? Thanks a lot for finding this clause in the terms, it is very encouraging.

Jasminebed, thanks a lot for your input too. Somehow I thought one needs to have a certain number of posts here before being allowed to PAB. Is it not true? And who is Maxd?

SUMMARY: 15 out of 19 tours played, 4 remaining, next tour is scheduled October 10th, status of Canadian players still uncertain. I suggest that Bwin either postpones download casino closure for Canadians OR ends the tournament prematurely for all players and pays out.
 

Vetal

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Toronto
Hi,
Same here. No new information from bwin. A lot of unanswered emails.
I've been able to play Tur #15. And it was 26 of Sep. Looks like all other BossMedia casinos also available to Canadians. The only new information I have that after Tur # 15 I'm the 2nd. And it would be sick to loose E10,000 with no chance to protect my results.
It's like driving blind. Never know when you hit an obstacle.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
No minimum number of posts to PAB. Maxd is the PAB manager.

Here's a link to the FAQs https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/help/pab-rules/

Please read them carefully. You might want to take some screenshots of stuff like the leader boards as well.

I would private message the BWin rep. Don't worry about the account showing dormant, most of them get an email alert to let them know there is a message for them.

Glad you guys were able to play this weekend.
 

Bagalya

Dormant account
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Ontario
Jasminebed, thanks again.

Like I said, it is a weird situation. There seems to be no valid reason for PABbing, as we are still able to login and play. What would we blame them in? Misinforming us about the casino closure? Lacking proffecient support personnel? That does not sound like much.

On the other hand, if we wait too long and they do close us casino access too soon before Tour 16 we will be in trouble.

So I guess for now I will just keep sending them emails. At least for this week.
 

Vetal

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Toronto
Here's a bwin reply:

Thank you for your e-mail. We apologise for the delay in responding to your query.

We regret to inform you that in light of the recent announcements by the British Columbia Lottery Corporation, Loto-Québec and the Atlantic Lottery Corporation regarding the launch of regulated online gaming products in Canada our Download Casino vendor, GTECH G2, has decided to block Canadian Users from using their software. Only operators licensed by the Canadian authorities will be permitted to offer online gaming products to Canadian residents.

We regret to inform you that we have to follow this decision and that the block is effective since 24.09.2010 onwards.

As your access to the Download Casino and therefore to the Grand Prix BlackJack Tournament has been terminated by an external legal issue, we are not able to allow you to continue playing within this tournament. We regret that as this is due to an alteration within the Law in Canada, we are not able to compensate participating users.

We are sorry to provide the following Terms and Conditions of this bonus to you:

- In case of disputes, the decision of the Casino Management shall be considered unconditional and final.

- Legal recourse is excluded. There is no entitlement to damages.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Please do not hesitate to contact us if you have any further queries.

Kind regards,
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Well, it seems they have made their position clear. I think it might be time to PAB.

I'd be interested in what "laws" have been altered. There is quite of bit of Canada that is not offered gaming from those provincial regulatory bodies.
 

jetset

RIP Brian
Joined
Feb 22, 2001
Location
Earth
I find it remarkable that once again an online gambling company - GTechG2 as parent group of Boss Media - has not deigned to reply to legitimate questions from players regarding a matter of clear interest - especially to Canadians.

Boss Media is apparently responsible for unilaterally imposing this ban, without any consultation or explanation, yet it leaves its licensees to provide answers rather than explaining its actions itself.

This company was twice asked to comment on this thread and simply did not respond - imo unacceptable and uncommunicative behaviour grrrrr:mad:
 

Vetal

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Toronto
Today I found that I can't log in to the download casino any more. Also bwin didn't give me any points for the last tournament (I get 15 points). I sent them couple of email and get the only reply that you are no longer a participant of this tournament, we will update your points at the end of all tournaments but you'll get nothing anyway.
If anyone have similar situation please PM or email me.
 

Vetal

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Toronto
Here are some updates:

1. PAB resulted in nothing. Bwin told Max something like that they are not even going to discuss it with him

2. A week after Bwin offered me a 1000 euro compensation. Which is about 10% of what they took from me.

3. I was contacted by another Canadian who was taking the FIRST place with a 10 point lead when the Canadians were cut off. So she effectively lost 20,000 euro. She attempted to register on Casinomeister as "darfedo" but somehow it did not go through.

Yet another Canadian was in the 6th place (3000 euro prize). But he does not want to register here.


So they took at least 33,000 Euro from people. Their explanation of "not having control over it" is a lie. They had at least one month to reaccomodate the tournament from download (Bossmedia) to instant play casino (which I am still able to play in).

I will really welcome any ideas. I can also be contacted by email at vy271577(at)gmail.com
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Here are some updates:

1. PAB resulted in nothing. Bwin told Max something like that they are not even going to discuss it with him

2. A week after Bwin offered me a 1000 euro compensation. Which is about 10% of what they took from me.

3. I was contacted by another Canadian who was taking the FIRST place with a 10 point lead when the Canadians were cut off. So she effectively lost 20,000 euro. She attempted to register on Casinomeister as "darfedo" but somehow it did not go through.

Yet another Canadian was in the 6th place (3000 euro prize). But he does not want to register here.


So they took at least 33,000 Euro from people. Their explanation of "not having control over it" is a lie. They had at least one month to reaccomodate the tournament from download (Bossmedia) to instant play casino (which I am still able to play in).

I will really welcome any ideas. I can also be contacted by email at vy271577(at)gmail.com

Why didn't they end the tournament early, and resolve the placings & pay out the prizes BEFORE the cut-off. They certainly DID have control over this.

Red Flush did EXACTLY THIS during May/June, when US players were moved to the clone software. I received an email that "unforseen circumstances" had forced them to end the scoreboard challenge early, and gave us one last weekend to play for a top place, after which the results would be declared and prizes paid.

It turns out that the original closing date would have left US players frozen out of the race, and the clone software didn't offer many of the games featured in the event.

Bwin should have done the same, and then launched a fresh tournament for non-Canadian players.

If casinos treat players like this, they should expect players to treat THEM in the same manner.

Even for those players still allowed to play, their confidence in future "long lasting tournaments" will be lower, because they will consider the possibility that they too will compete, get a top placing, only to get shafted by being thrown out before the end with little or no compensation for their performance, whilst players who performed less well with take away prize money they DIDN'T win fairly.

Since this affects only the download casino, why can't Canadian players have the prize money at least paid there, even if they can no longer participate. This would make it easily possible for Bwin to end the tournament early, but as late as possible whilst Canadian players can still play, and pay Canadians their prize monies into their non-download account, from which they can withdraw.
 

Vetal

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 22, 2010
Location
Toronto
I am glad to tell everybody that the story had a happy ending. Thanks to this forum, I got in touch with Dariya F, who is also Canadian and was taking the first place when the access was blocked. So we put our heads together and decided not to give up. We complained to everywhere we could think of: ECogra, EGBA, Sportbook Reviews, Bwin CEO, media - everything. Just made a list of whatever organizations concerned, split it, and wrote the emails.

Unfortunately it is hard to tell which of the complaints reached its goal and whether it was mine or Dariya's. But in the beginning of December both of us got a meaningful response from Bwin saying that the issue is now under investigation and asking for our patience. And then shortly before Christmas each of us got a settlement proposal. The settlement was based on the assumption of a hypothetical premature tournament ending on September 24th (download casino closure date for Canadians). So that was 14 of the 19 tours or 73% of the prize pool. Dariya was offered roughly 11000 euros for her 1st place and I was offered EUR 5475 for my 3rd place.

She signed her settlement and mailed it on the following day, and I did the same couple days after Christmas. Bwin stood by their word and Dariya already got the money in her bank account. Mine just hit the Bwin account and a wire transfer is pending.

I would like to thank everybody who posted in this thread for their wonderful suggestions. And of course the people who made this thread possible - CasinoMeister and the team. I already thanked Bwin itself for the satisfactory resolution but let me do it again here.

And to those others who are complaing about other casinos' injustice on this forum, let me say, keep it up! Keep struggling, don't give up. Sometimes it helps, and in the worst case you at least know you have done what you could. And, last but not least, you make some new friends :)
 

gloria460

Meister Member
Joined
May 11, 2008
Location
Florida
You know what, that kinda restores my almost gone faith in online casinos to do the right thing and it couldn't have happened at a better time than Xmas!!:thumbsup:
 
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