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BWIN cancelled my bets - advice required

Discussion in 'Sportsbook Complaints' started by mr_muse_man, Sep 16, 2013.

    Sep 16, 2013
  1. mr_muse_man

    mr_muse_man Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Unemployed
    Location:
    England
    Hi to anyone reading this.

    I placed 4 golf bets at BWIN on Monday 9th Sept and 3 of them have now been 'cancelled' and my stakes returned. Here is a screenshot of the bets.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    As the player I backed was doing well in 8th place 3/4 of the way through the tournament, needless to say I was rather pissed.

    I was not informed of why they had been cancelled nor even contacted WHATSOEVER. I merely logged into my account on Saturday 14th Sept and noticed this myself. When I had logged into my account on Thursday 12th Sept, the bets were still standing. This is the same day the golf tournament began. Now here is the big problem, when I took a look at the transactions on my account, it says my bets were cancelled and stakes returned on Tuesday 10th Sep (see screenshot below)

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    This is a lie - the bets were still live when I looked on Thursday 12th Sept. Although I cannot prove this, it IS the case. I have something that backs up my claim somewhat however.

    The only logical reason I can see for them ever cancelling a bet is because of a mistake in the odds given. This happened to me once before with Ladbrokes and they emailed me BEFORE the event, asking if I wanted my stakes returned or bets to stand at new lower odds. BWIN offered no such courtesy.

    On Oddschecker you can look at the history of any bet and what each sportsbook was offering for odds on certain days etc. Here are screenshots from 2 of my cancelled bets.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    As you can see, the odds I took on Mon 9th Sept (circled at the bottom) were slashed BUT not until Thursday 12th. Why then would BWIN cancel my bets on Tuesday 10th and wait until Thursday 12th to amend their odds? This makes no sense - unless they cancelled my bets DURING the tournament itself then backdated the transaction history.

    It seems to me like BWIN have waited to see if the bets were likely to win then cancelled them. Would they have refunded my money had my picks been doing badly? I doubt it.

    Is there anything that can be done about this? Any help would be appreciated.
     
  2. Sep 16, 2013
  3. mr_muse_man

    mr_muse_man Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Unemployed
    Location:
    England
    Watney came 2nd so all my bets would have won, so this debacle has cost me £320. BS.
     
  4. Sep 17, 2013
  5. Patriot66

    Patriot66 Experienced Member MM

    Occupation:
    I.T
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    As you said, the usual reason for bookies cancelling bets is palpable error. Where the odds they have offered are so obviously wrong that they have the right to cancel bets placed at those odds.

    This wouldn't appear to be the case here.

    The only other thing I can think of is that the tournament finished Monday instead of the scheduled Sunday and could be a reason for voiding (really can't picture that though). It would be worth checking their golf betting rules.

    If that isn't the reason (and those odds weren't best price, bigger than the exchanges and you aren't a known arber) then I see no reason for them to cancel the bets.

    I'd be interested to hear what they say.
     
  6. Sep 17, 2013
  7. mr_muse_man

    mr_muse_man Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Unemployed
    Location:
    England
    They sent me a fairly generic email earlier. They said all the bets were input errors and they reserve the right to cancel bet with errors even AFTER the event is complete. Basically they are saying we can do whatever we want when we want.

    They were best price on the markets I bet on but I wouldn't exactly say offering 12.5/1 on something another bookie is offering 9/1 on, is an obvious error.

    I have sent them a return email asking them 2 questions and asking for full explanations, my questions are

    1 - Why was I not informed of the bet cancellations via email?

    All my cancelled bets ended up winning and this has ended up costing me £320 as a result. By cancelling my bets without notification of any sort, it means I didn't get a chance to make the bets elsewhere (or with BWIN at 'correct' lower odds).

    2 - Why did BWIN cancel my bets (supposedly) on Tuesday 10th then wait until THURSDAY 12th to change their odds to lower 'correct' prices on their site?
     
  8. Sep 17, 2013
  9. Jasminebed

    Jasminebed Closer to 100 than Birth

    Occupation:
    Not in workforce
    Location:
    Ontario
    I am sorry that no one here has been able to offer any help or advice. BWin doesn't appear to have a rep here.

    There are some forums more devoted to sportsbooks. Perhaps try one of those, you might find more experienced punters, or someone with a contact there.
     
  10. Sep 17, 2013
  11. threescatters

    threescatters Dormant account PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    .
    Location:
    UK
    This is a pretty bad story because of a couple of key factors imo.

    They offered too good a price on your selection which you took. I realise bookies (the less reputable ones imo) void these bets when they realise, but always before the off. If the bet still stands on the off then it should play out. If they voided it before the start then I guess there would be no complaints but that is not the case here.

    The key thing here is they waited several days before voiding them, until Thursday when it was clear your selection was doing well and in with a chance. Not only did they wait until he had a chance before voiding but they falsely represent WHEN they voided the bets to cover this up. They claim the bets were voided on Tuesday but you have screenshots that show they actually voided it on Thursday when the selection had a chance. Judging by this if the selection had no chance on Thursday they would have collected the losing money and not falsely represented anything.

    This is scummy behaviour, bwin.party don't appear to have a direct sportsbook rep here but I had a look and there is this guy http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/chris_m.html who seems to rep party as a whole and can maybe get some light shed on this sitation for you, I suggest you PM him with a link to this thread.
     
  12. Sep 17, 2013
  13. GrandMaster

    GrandMaster Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Mathematician by day, online gambler by night.
    Location:
    UK
    It's more complicated than that. The odds will naturally shift due to news or rumours or because of the money coming in, but the sportsbook cannot just cancel the bets on which the odds have shortened.
     
  14. Sep 17, 2013
  15. mr_muse_man

    mr_muse_man Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Unemployed
    Location:
    England
    I did get an e-mail from them today. But not what you're thinking. It was a customer service email saying, "We value your opinion! Please complete this survey to tell us what you thought of your customer service experience!" :lolup:
     
  16. Sep 19, 2013
  17. mr_muse_man

    mr_muse_man Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Unemployed
    Location:
    England
    Got a reply from BWIN to my 2 questions today. My 1st question was

    Their reply...

    We attempt to notify all affected users as soon as possible following any error being identified. However, due to various reasons and limitations this may not always be possible.

    Well what a full and detailed explanation 'Various reasons' is! Vague is an understatement and massively unsatisfactory - how hard is it to send an email when you cancel 3 of your customers bets?

    As for 'limitations' being a reason not to notify me. I can only see limitations as being...

    A - A lack of internet connection to send an e-mail or...

    B - Not having hands so you can't type an email.

    Now call me presumptuous but I can only presume BWIN HQ has a working internet connection and at least 1 employee with all their bodyparts intact.

    My 2nd question

    Their reply...

    We can confirm that we have consulted the responsible bookmaker in regards to the correction of the odds carried out - who has confirmed that these odds were corrected on the website at the same time the bets with incorrect odds were cancelled.

    Furthermore, please note that Oddschecker.com are their own website and not related to bwin in anyway. As such, information published there may not accurately reflect every bookmakers bet offers and odds at any time.

    If you should wish to take your complaint further, we would direct you to the Independent Betting Adjudication Service (IBAS).


    So either Oddschecker was out by 2 whole days on when BWIN shortened their odds or BWIN are lying. Oh how I wish I had taken screenshot of my account on Thursday when the bets were still live, as this argument would be dead in the water that they cancelled them on Tuesday.
     
  18. Sep 19, 2013
  19. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    Oddschecker is a diversion. It merely helps punters look for the best odds. As BWIN say, it has nothing to do with them. It was the BWIN site itself that initially offered the best odds, and BWIN that initially accepted the bet. None of this has anything to do with what Oddschecker may or may not have published.

    The problem is that they cancelled a bet without informing customers, and not only this, the website itself erroneously misinformed customers for two further days that their bets were still live, thus denying them the opportunity to replace the cancelled bet with another at the correct odds, or another elsewhere.

    It's certainly worth taking this to IBAS, as this will be dealt with under UK standards.

    It seems that this kind of thing is happening too often with online bookies, cancelling bets due to them claiming they got the odds wrong, but not informing customers, who often only find out after the event.

    This is something that needs to be regulated so that a common standard is in place for what should happen in such an event. Maybe customers should be able to select between "cancel bets" and "settle at corrected odds" in their account profile for what should happen if such an error is discovered after they have placed a bet.

    Far worse than the bet cancellation itself, is the apparent rewriting of history that is done to users' transaction records so as to make it appear that the bet was cancelled before the start, even though users were able to see the bet still in play during the event. This would be a fraudulent misrepresentation of the facts, and transaction histories should be accurate, even if this shows the company (or the customer) in a bad light.
     
    1 person likes this.
  20. Nov 18, 2013
  21. Roller_Jamie

    Roller_Jamie Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Product Manager
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Did you manage to get anywhere with this? I also backed Watney in a couple of markets for this event and had mine randomly cancelled too.
     
  22. Nov 18, 2013
  23. Richas

    Richas Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Project Manager
    Location:
    UK
    BWIN is Gib so e-cogra or the GRA. not IBAS.

    IBAS has some issues, e-cogra more and the GRA are IMHO worse than useless.

    I'd go back to BWIN ask for them to confirm their internal complaint process is exhausted and asking for a statement as to why they cancelled the bets then go to e-cogra.
     
  24. Nov 18, 2013
  25. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Looks like a pattern is emerging.

    Is there a proper procedure covering the situation where bets on a specific participant are voided? If so, and BWIN haven't followed it, you should both have a case.

    My dad used to bet on the horses, and there were occasions where his bets got voided, or odds changed, by the bookie, but this was certainly not without explanation. Usually, it was down to a stewards' enquiry altering the outcome by disqualifying a horse or jockey for misconduct. There was certainly a proper procedure in place, bookies couldn't simply cancel bets at random with no explanation. There was only a limited time allowed to havfe an enquiry, as bookies had to make payouts to punters on demand one the result was declared as "good" on the course. Later enquiries did sometimes alter the result, such as positive dope tests, but that was tough on the bookies, they had no power to require punters to come back in and give back their winning.

    If bookies got their sums wrong, they had to show that it was "obvious" to punters that there had been an error when they placed the bets.

    It's worth checking to see whether anyone has raised questions about this match, and this participant in particular. Sometimes there are allegations of "match fixing", and this might be behind this.
     
  26. Nov 18, 2013
  27. mr_muse_man

    mr_muse_man Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Unemployed
    Location:
    England
    Absolutely nowhere mate.

    I was told I was going to receive some information by post (I expected this to be an apology and some kind of lame free bet type deal).

    I never got a letter.
     

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