Buzzluck Closed my account ant took my winnings

[vinylweatherman]

Was way for a bit.

Sure, I've played many casinos. And yes, I've posted when I've had an issue with a few. I've never been accused a fraud before though. That's why I posted. I haven't any idea why my account was closed still. Yes, my IP is static. No one else can use it as far as I know. If they tell me someone else with my IP also has an account then I'd be surprised as well as understanding of their motive. They have never responded to anything though. This is apparently a lost cause as far as finding anything more out. I'd be wary if I were anyone else.

Maybe they took my winnings because I bet more than 20% of my balance on a single hand. This new rule was not in the terms when I played though. They still might not have liked it and booted me because of it.

This is quite likely, but if this was NOT against the terms THEN, they should pay up. This is one of the specific standards now in place for being an accredited casino. The standards also prohibit the confiscation of winnings using vague reasons, or relying on subjective terms and conditions.

It seems though that Bryan is pretty certain they "busted" you for having multiple accounts. Combine this with betting more than 20% of your balance per hand on a Blackjack bonus, and it looks like something that will get the risk department all hot & bothered.

If you have a static IP address, which is rare nowdays, then if the casino has more than one account registered from that same IP address, it looks like fraud.

The only way out really is to see if others have used your computer, OR YOUR INTERNET CONNECTION. If you have an unencrypted wireless router, it is easy for others nearby to hijack it. They could then carry out activities that will look like it was YOU, such as opening casino accounts.

These coincidences would only offer an innocent explanation for a very small number of duplicate accounts on the same IP, such as another member of the household, or the coincidence of another player both wanting to play at the casino, AND hijacking your connection.

What might get innocent players busted for fraud is over use of "refer a friend". A few casinos offer this, and even pay a bounty, but over use can distort the stats, and casinos will see a VERY large number of new sign-ups from a relatively SMALL area, and who might play the same. This looks like a syndicate of players, but could also be innocent, where a player has referred a few friends, with the bounty in mind, and also taught these friends a strategy to use to maximise their chance of profit, but who are NOT doing this as a syndicate.

 

[Stevebuzz]

Figured I'd step in and try to clarify some things for everyone. Let me state first that it is against our privacy policy to publicly discuss or share any details surrounding any account at Buzzluck.com.

As Helfer already publicly stated, his account was closed due to security concerns. I discussed the matter personally with Bryan from CasinoMeister, and he understood and had no objections over the actions we took. Helfer's deposit was returned to him and winnings were confiscated because he was in breach of the site terms and conditions.

While I'm not in the position to go into anything further at this point, I can assure you that there was more to this case than is being discussed, which puts us in a very difficult position since we are bound by our privacy policies.

We take security very seriously here at Buzzluck in order to protect our players and our business. When a situation arises that unequivocally points to fraudulent activity and breaches the terms and conditions, we act accordingly.

As many posters on this forum can attest to, Buzzluck provides an online casino experience that is second to none, and service is the top priority for everyone in our company. However, when certain accounts take part in suspicious activity, we investigate the matter thoroughly and make an appropriate and fair decision swiftly.


Steve

 

[Rusty]

I don't see how explaining which T&C was broken goes against your privacy policy especially since the issue has been raised in a public forum by the player themselves.
Surely the privacy policy is only really concerned with account information.

The OP stated that they were not told which T&C they were in breach of either so I still do not understand why they were not told - especially since this is apparently an open and shut case.

As much as I am sure Buzzluck will be right about this - what is to stop any Casino just using the "Goes against our privacy policy" line?
You may as well say, "We are right because we say so."

 

[love2winalot]

Hiya: First off thank you Casino Rep for posting. On-Line gaming would be a lot better off if more Casino Reps did this. However.............It appears that allmost ALL Casino's wait until a withdraw request to check if there are multiple accounts, or any other breach of the ToS.

What ever method is used, maybe it would be better to do this up front, inform the player of the violation, reccomend any soultion, if there is one, and either bann them and refund their deposit, "Minus winnings", or Minus winnings, and let them continue to play, as long as they now are following the T0S.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes this is just Fraud, on the players part. Other times, "as I have done before", it is simply going back to a Casino you played at before, and have forgotten your log in name, and or, password. In either case, it is pretty easy to check out what is what, and take the approapiate action.

imhop: No matter what the Casino did, I would, "without violating any confidential information", post what was done, and why, here on this board. After all, is this not a main reason why this board exist in the first place?

 

[vinylweatherman]

I don't see how explaining which T&C was broken goes against your privacy policy especially since the issue has been raised in a public forum by the player themselves.
Surely the privacy policy is only really concerned with account information.

The OP stated that they were not told which T&C they were in breach of either so I still do not understand why they were not told - especially since this is apparently an open and shut case.

As much as I am sure Buzzluck will be right about this - what is to stop any Casino just using the "Goes against our privacy policy" line?
You may as well say, "We are right because we say so."

Sometimes, this is because there was no SPECIFIC term actually broken by the player. This is often the case with "bonus abuse" issues, where the casino has just decided not to pay because they didn't like the way the player played. They just say it's "in the terms". It usually is, it's the "F U Clause" which gives casinos wide ranging rights not to pay if they don't feel like it.

This case looks a little different. Bryan has made comments that make it look as though it was a multiple account issue, and that he is happy with the evidence for this. I see no reason why players themselves cannot be told it is about multiple accounts (no need to go into details of how they got caught), since there can be innocent explanations, such as his partner, or even a grown up child still living at home, having opened an account with no idea that others had also.


More generally, whilst casinos can decline to do business with a player, this does NOT give them the right to decide not to do business RETROSPECTIVELY by confiscating winnings. This particular argument therefore, is irrelevant, and should not have been used as an excuse/explanation in this case.

The OP DOES now know that he is accused of opening multiple accounts, and therefore of fraud.

 

[zebedy]

=love2winalot;308832]Hiya: First off thank you Casino Rep for posting. On-Line gaming would be a lot better off if more Casino Reps did this. However.............It appears that allmost ALL Casino's wait until a withdraw request to check if there are multiple accounts, or any other breach of the ToS.

What ever method is used, maybe it would be better to do this up front, inform the player of the violation, reccomend any soultion, if there is one, and either bann them and refund their deposit, "Minus winnings", or Minus winnings, and let them continue to play, as long as they now are following the T0S.

The multiple account mistake happened to me at club world this was in there early days when they had club uk, club euro, and club usa, anyways i accidently opened 2 accounts at club usa, about 5 minutes after opening the account i received a phone call from club usa saying the i already had an account with them and they told me they were closing the new account down and gave my the username for the old account, i think the confusion came from them having 3 different names for one casino,

i was suprised at how fast they acted and asked them about it and they told me there security system went wild when it realised there was another account being opened with the same details,

so what you are asking can be done before it gets to the cashout stage,

i mean when innocent mistakes happen and someone registers the exact same details twice, i presume it would be harder to detect if they used different details when signing up

i was really impressed with club world for doing this

 

[chayton]

The multiple account mistake happened to me at club world this was in there early days when they had club uk, club euro, and club usa, anyways i accidently opened 2 accounts at club usa, about 5 minutes after opening the account i received a phone call from club usa saying the i already had an account with them and they told me they were closing the new account down and gave my the username for the old account, i think the confusion came from them having 3 different names for one casino,

i was suprised at how fast they acted and asked them about it and they told me there security system went wild when it realised there was another account being opened with the same details,

so what you are asking can be done before it gets to the cashout stage,

i mean when innocent mistakes happen and someone registers the exact same details twice, i presume it would be harder to detect if they used different details when signing up

i was really impressed with club world for doing this

Actually that happened to me after I got a new computer, I downloaded an MG casino and opened an account, they sent me an email within 10 minutes that they'd closed the account I'd just opened because I already had an account - they sent me the details and everything was fine, no hassles at all.

I agree, I think that the casinos can see right away if it's an honest mistake - if you're opening the account with the same name/address/phone number/email address etc - I don't think people who knowingly open multiple accounts to commit fraud do that, they'd use different names and addresses, right? So maybe it's not as obvious that the person has multiple accounts til the cashout stage when they discover the same Moneybookers account (for example) is linked to a name or email address that's linked to several other accounts...?

 

[dancinggoon]

It would be interesting to know, on wich date the player had made the bets that are against these 20% rule and on wich date this new point in their T&C was added.

I hope someone from buzzluck can give a detailed answer.

 

[Stevebuzz]

Let me add a few points:

1) The player was informed in no uncertain terms why the account was closed.

2) The details presented in this thread by the player have not been entirely accurate.

3) There is no doubt that this was not a case of accidentally creating multiple accounts months or even days apart.

4) Don't take our word for it. We spoke in detail with Bryan, who runs this site, during this situation and he backed us 100%. (Chime in any time Bryan )

5) Without getting into any specific details, I will provide the Ts and Cs that were violated (which can be found in our site ts and cs when you sign up):

II.viii - No single person may open more than one account with Buzzluck. Buzzluck reserves the right to close any account(s) if multiple accounts are found. Should Buzzluck (in its sole estimation) have grounds to believe that multiple accounts have been opened with the intention to defraud the company, Buzzluck may cancel any transaction related to such (attempted) fraudulent conduct. This rule may also apply to multiple accounts designating from the same address or same IP range.

II.ix - Buzzluck does not permit players to access their service using proxies, anonymisers, or relay servers. Players that access Buzzluck.com using one of the aforementioned mechanisms will have their accounts terminated without notice.


While we do respect the nature of this site and it's importance to both players and casinos, we are not always in a position to share details regarding accounts or the activities related to accounts. In these situations, we enlist the help and opinion of Bryan, who has done a great job over the many years representing/demanding fairness and making sure that it is upheld on both sides of the table.

While the far majority of you on CM are honest, loyal players, you must remember that there are many (a lot more than you can imagine) dishonest players that go through unimaginable lengths to defraud online gaming companies. It's unfortunate, but it's something we take VERY seriously because it can have a massively destructive impact on a business.

And yes, there are sadly too many rogue casinos out there. But we have worked very hard over our first four months with our players and those on this forum to build confidence and trust, even if you aren't playing with us (which you should be ). And yes, there have been some normal growing pains, but we have ALWAYS tried to do the right thing to resolve them.

I hope this settles all of your concerns. If not, let me know and I'll get back to you.

-Steve

 

[Stevebuzz]

It would be interesting to know, on wich date the player had made the bets that are against these 20% rule and on wich date this new point in their T&C was added.

I hope someone from buzzluck can give a detailed answer.

Had nothing to do with it, so I'm not sure where you are getting that from.

 

[Stevebuzz]

Hiya: First off thank you Casino Rep for posting. On-Line gaming would be a lot better off if more Casino Reps did this. However.............It appears that allmost ALL Casino's wait until a withdraw request to check if there are multiple accounts, or any other breach of the ToS.

What ever method is used, maybe it would be better to do this up front, inform the player of the violation, reccomend any soultion, if there is one, and either bann them and refund their deposit, "Minus winnings", or Minus winnings, and let them continue to play, as long as they now are following the T0S.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sometimes this is just Fraud, on the players part. Other times, "as I have done before", it is simply going back to a Casino you played at before, and have forgotten your log in name, and or, password. In either case, it is pretty easy to check out what is what, and take the approapiate action.

imhop: No matter what the Casino did, I would, "without violating any confidential information", post what was done, and why, here on this board. After all, is this not a main reason why this board exist in the first place?

I think a lot of assumptions are being drawn here, which is our fault due to the fact that we will not discuss all the details publicly. However you should know that our action was taken quickly, long before the player is suggesting.

As much as I would like to straighten things out to keep a good player, there were no ambiguities here. It was clearly fraud, and we do not wish to cater to fraudulent accounts.

I would love to just present all the details related to this account and clear everything up. However our privacy policies are in part meant to protect us from future fraud. If you explain publicly what someone did, you are explaining to others how to do it. This is not a concern for CM readers as much as it is for the thousands of onlookers who visit the site each day.

Why can't we all just get along

 

[Stevebuzz]

Actually that happened to me after I got a new computer, I downloaded an MG casino and opened an account, they sent me an email within 10 minutes that they'd closed the account I'd just opened because I already had an account - they sent me the details and everything was fine, no hassles at all.

I agree, I think that the casinos can see right away if it's an honest mistake - if you're opening the account with the same name/address/phone number/email address etc - I don't think people who knowingly open multiple accounts to commit fraud do that, they'd use different names and addresses, right? So maybe it's not as obvious that the person has multiple accounts til the cashout stage when they discover the same Moneybookers account (for example) is linked to a name or email address that's linked to several other accounts...?

Sometimes it's easy to pick these mistakes out right when they happen, and work with the player to correct them. Other times people are using more sophisticated techniques that require investigation and time. This was a case of the latter, not us just being thick.


Steve

 

[Vortran007]

I forgot completely about this thread. I need reprogramming.

@ Helfer

Did you get your deposits back from all accounts? Please let me know either here or PM thanks!

He was just asking to make sure Helfer was taken care of before closing the account here for fraudulent activity. There was no "accidentally forgetting other accounts" - He opened a few of them. It was intentional - all opened within the same time frame, and he got caught.

He is a bogus player trying to pull a fast one. His account is now closed permanently for BSing the Casinomeister membership.

It would be interesting to know, on wich date the player had made the bets that are against these 20% rule and on wich date this new point in their T&C was added.

I hope someone from buzzluck can give a detailed answer.

Are you sure you are in the correct thread?

 

[Stevebuzz]

I forgot completely about this thread. I need reprogramming.



He was just asking to make sure Helfer was taken care of before closing the account here for fraudulent activity. There was no "accidentally forgetting other accounts" - He opened a few of them. It was intentional - all opened within the same time frame, and he got caught.

He is a bogus player trying to pull a fast one. His account is now closed permanently for BSing the Casinomeister membership.

Thank you Vortran. You are wise beyond your bytes.

 

[Casinomeister]

...
I would love to just present all the details related to this account and clear everything up. However our privacy policies are in part meant to protect us from future fraud. If you explain publicly what someone did, you are explaining to others how to do it. This is not a concern for CM readers as much as it is for the thousands of onlookers who visit the site each day...

Fraudsters are unbelievably stupid - but clever at the same time.

I am adamant to protect this site from being exploited by fraudsters and bogus players. Like Steve said, this community is a great one, and most of its members are legitimate players.

Unfortunately, there are some who don't give a shit about this community - you, or this website. The only thing they care about is that if they PAB or whine openly in the forum, they might get what they want = $$. Most of you know that I have zero tolerance for this.

Like Steve mentioned, spelling out everything what fraudsters do only empowers these a-holes to find other ways to waste our time.

 

[Rusty]

I am for fraudulent bullshitters being publicly electrocuted by Vortran - perhaps that should be in the forum rules.
Pisses me off when people try to take advantage of others who are willing to give up their time to help and besmirch the reputation of operations that are making a good name for themselves.

Thanks for taking the time to explain Buzzluck.