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Casino Complaint Butlers Bingo

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by EMSKY, Jan 12, 2018.

    Jan 12, 2018
  1. EMSKY

    EMSKY Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    UK
    Hiya,

    I’m wondering about others experience of dealing with Butlers Bingo (Broadway Gaming Ltd)?

    I’ve had the most terrible experience with them. They do not reply to emails (or it takes them about a week to do so), they don’t provide information requested (or omit information from what they send me) and consistently provide inaccurate information.

    I opened an account with them in December 2017. I had previously emailed them twice to ask if I had a previous account with them, to which I got the standard ‘we’ve got your email’ reply and heard nothing. I contact live chat asking the same and was told to send an email. When I got no where with this I opened an account presuming that I did not previously have an account with them. I lost some money, as we all do, and then requested to close the account.

    Whilst clearing out an old email account I discovered that I had indeed had an account with them before which I had requested to be self excluded from their sites in 2015 due to problem Gambling. So I contacted Butlers Bingo to inform them of this and requested that my deposits be returned.

    Since then I have had the absolute run around! They claim that because I had used a different email address I had circumvented their system. All other details were the exact same. The email address that they claim is on the CND register is not the correct one and one which does not exist so this cannot be the case. To prove so I opened up an account in the email address which I had originally asked to be self excluded from in 2015. Surprise, surprise I was able to open an account with that proving that their claim that my account wasn’t picked up was due to a different email address being used to be false. That account remained open for some weeks until I informed them of it! This email address also constantly received marketing material (should that address not have been removed from their database!) and my mobile also got numerous texts about joining (my number has been the same for the past 15 years!) The marketing emails go back to 2015 to now.

    In my opinion Butlers Bingo have a responsible gaming responsibility and have deliberately allowed me to deposit without carrying out the necessary checks and therefore failed in their duty of care to ensure that reasonable arrangements are in place to prevent me from opening an account in their network. An email address solely surely cannot be what is used to determine who someone is? Especially when name, address, telephone number and date of birth all remain the exact same.

    I have repeatedly been informed by them to report the matter to eCOGRA but they no longer deal with Responsible Gaming issues which I have informed Butlers Bingo of. Yet still they refer me to them! (For your info Responsible Gaming issues are now just dealt with the Gambling Commission)

    Any other people’s experiences of Broadway Gaming and advice would be much appreciated.

    Apologies for long message but I wanted to try and explain the full situation.
     
  2. Jan 12, 2018
  3. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FWIW the player has come here because I was unable to help them via PAB. What she's stumbled on is a big fat problem with self-exclusion/Responsible Gaming issues: UKGC says "casinos must refer SE/RG issues to the Commission" but the Commission has no process for dealing with those issues, AFAIK. A while ago they were telling players "take it to court" though I couldn't say if that's still the case.

    Either way it's a disgraceful mess that results in players getting abused. LOTS of players getting abused in case anyone is asking.
     
    geordiecolin and EMSKY like this.
  4. Jan 12, 2018
  5. brianmon

    brianmon Meister Member webby mm4

    Location:
    uk
    And likewise LOTS of casinos are getting abused.

    Why join a site, where you think you might already have an account, when there are so many other sites available (and with better promotions and T&C)?

    Why do people suddenly find evidence that they do have an account at said site, usually only a few day after depositing and LOSING?

    I'm not necessarily saying that the OP is doing it deceitfully in this case. But from recent complaints posted here, there does seem to be a pattern.


    And although I'm in now way protecting casinos.. Aren't there data protection issues involved here too?

    I could email the name and address of anyone I know to a casino, asking if I (pretending to be them) had an account? would they be allowed to answer this, considering the query had come from an unregistered email address?
    But if I had access to that said person's email account, and sent the query from a registered email address. They probably could and would reply.
     
    orion, geordiecolin and Jono777 like this.
  6. Jan 12, 2018
  7. EMSKY

    EMSKY Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    UK
    Thanks for your reply Brian. I agree, I’m sure that many casinos are being abused due to this.

    My reason for joining the site recently was due to me only playing one game in particular that doesn’t happen to be on a lot of sites. Please bare in mind that the account I had previously with this company was self excluded nearly three years ago and as such, as good as my memory is, sometimes I can forget things. I had also been sent numerous marketing offerings to both my email accounts (including the one which should have been blacklisted) and my mobile (I’ve had the same number for years so this should also have been removed from their marketing database). It’s my understanding that once a person self excludes for problem Gambling that the casino operator must remove my details from all their marketing databases? Obviously Broadway Gaming didn’t comply with this. This new account was in no way done to cause any deception to Broadway Gaming.

    My main concern is that they claimed that I had bypassed their self exclusion system due to the new account being opened under a different email address. This, as I said before, wasn’t actually true as I was able to open up an account with using the original self excluded email address (this account was only opened to see if what Burlers Bingo were saying about the self exclusion security processes in place were true - we can see that this wasn’t in fact true and that their systems are flawed).

    I understand your point about the issues regarding data protection. However, in my case should they not have replied saying ‘please email us from the previous registered account email’? Instead, as is common practice with this Broadway Gaming they just ignore you.
     
  8. Jan 15, 2018
  9. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    I beg to differ. Most legitimate casinos have fairly good SE policies and are well versed on what they should be looking for with potential SE fraud. The number of casinos actually suffering financially from SE fraud is relatively small in my experience.

    On the other hand there are literally thousands of SE cases being swept into the corner because the powers that be have not and will not enforce real and effective SE policies. And remember, the monies deposited by those players whose cases are going nowhere is being held by the casinos, not the players.

    There is no doubt that the wave of attempted SE fraudsters that started almost two years ago has been a serious resource drain and a major PITA for many people in the industry, ourselves included. But the bottom line is that a great many legitimate SE cases are dismissed or ignored exactly because of the effort required to combat SE fraud: it is far simpler to dump all SE cases into a bottomless hole and try to forget about the whole problem.

    And it is precisely that opportunity -- the attempt to ignore or fob off the SE problem -- that allows casinos willing to exploit vulnerable players to do so. And since problem gamblers are worth good money to casinos there most certainly will be, and are, those willing to do the exploiting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2018
    Rach23 and Mouche12 like this.
  10. Jan 15, 2018
  11. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    You may enjoy my PAB then!

    IBAS weren't able to help - they said it was a regulatory issue (long story, but I was NOT self excluded, despite what the casino say) and that area is dealt with by the UKGC. UKGC said they can't get the casino to pay, but both IBAS and UKGC said to take the legal route to get payment.

    Also, and I don't wish to pick fault with what you say, but self exclusion (from what UKGC said to me) is not a responsible gambling issue, it is social responsibility. As such;

    Responsible gambling tools include deposit limits, cool off, loss limits, etc and do not classify under self exclusion rules section 3.5

    Social Responsibility tools include self exclusion.

    Oh what fun this area is!!
     
  12. Jan 15, 2018
  13. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Well, no offence, but the UKGC and I have considerably different views on what self-exclusion is and who's responsibility it is to enforce it. The UKGC -- and the approved ADRs -- seem primarily interested in washing their hands of the entire issue, hence the "take the legal route" position they've adopted. They might as well say "try praying" for all the good that does the player caught in the middle. But they're fine with that and have structured their Rules accordingly. C'est la vie.
     
    RichyJ75 likes this.
  14. Jan 15, 2018
  15. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    In which case, you will love to pick fault with the casino in my PAB! Absolutely shocking T&C's and follow ups. I won't hijack this thread, but will send over screenshots and e-mails when/if needed for the PAB.
     
  16. Jan 15, 2018
  17. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    I'm sorry to say that I can't say I see much point in doing a PAB on your case. You've already heard from the UKGC and the casino's ADR. Aside from reading your SE horror story I don't think there's much we could do for you.
     
  18. Jan 15, 2018
  19. RichyJ75

    RichyJ75 Silly Member PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    Dogsbody and personal servant to my kids
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    No problem, cheers. I doubt they would respond anyway, having already blacklisted UK players in the last few days. Hopefully they have gone away to have training and re-write their rules!
     
  20. Mar 2, 2018
  21. Rach23

    Rach23 Newbie member PABnononaccred

    Location:
    Uk
    I'm having the same problem with the same response. All my details are the same as well except my email address and they have said that is enough for their systems not to pick me up
     
  22. Mar 2, 2018
  23. alexking12k

    alexking12k Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Commodities trader
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Let's all keep in mind, SE or no SE, gambling addiction is a sickness and just because a gambler has self excluded himself doesn't mean that he will never gamble again. This case is not the first time a gambler has self excluded only to go back to the same casino or a sister casino and to lose money and to start a case such as this one. Players and casinos do get abused, yes, but it is the players that feel more pain as a lot of us can't afford to lose what we sometimes lose and that brings up all kinds of emotions and reactions. Once again, gambling addiction is a sickness and that in itself has a tendency to complicate things on many levels.
     
    Rach23 likes this.

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