Burned by 888/Cassava bonus rules? Let me know.

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Does this describe your situation? You've played at one of their sites, taken a bonus, etc. At some later date you play at another site, another bonus, and BOOM! They say you've violated their Terms and nail you for "bonus abuse" or whatever. Bottom line is they confiscate your winnings and pretty much end the conversation there.

In particular it's these 888/Cassava Terms that I'm referring to here:
  • ... users shall be entitled only to one welcome bonus. Members who make their first deposit with the Company or any of its white label partners, and who have or previously had an account with any of the websites owned or operated by the Company, including both in-house brands and white label brands, shall not be entitled to an additional welcome bonus, unless the Company decides otherwise at its absolute discretion.
  • In the event that the Company deems in its sole discretion that you have been taking unfair advantage of the Company’s welcome bonuses or have executed any other act in bad faith in relation to a bonus promotion offered on any of the websites owned and/or operated by the Company, the Company shall have the right to block or terminate your accounts with the Company and in such circumstances, the Company shall be under no obligation to refund to you any funds that may be in your account/s.
FYI, there may be variations on these Terms at the individual sites. For whatever reason they seem to have buried the T&Cs at many of their sites making them harder than ever to get at.

The problem: they never say what other sites are theirs! They've published partial lists, occasionally refer to a few connected sites, but in all the years I've been doing what I do I've never seen complete disclosure of all the Cassava sites including their many white labels. The most complete list I've ever seen can be found via the list of "licensed operators"
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
-- the Remote Gambling page at gibraltar.gov.gi -- but that information may or may not be complete and certainly isn't disclosed at all of the individual white labels.

So ... how is player supposed to know that they are breaking the "have or previously had an account with any of the websites owned or operated by the Company" clause? The point is you can't, you'll only know for sure that a site you've played at is "owned or operated by the Company" when they tell you it is. So they can confiscate your winnings for something you could not reasonably have known or prevented.

Why do I care? To make a long story short there is a SLIM chance that we may be able to raise this specific issue with the Gibraltar regulator. The issue came up at ICE in London a couple weeks ago and there's a chance that we may get access to the powers that be. That's not a common occurance so I'd like as much data in my case file as I can get in order to support and press the issue, should the opportunity present itself.

If you've been caught in this situation please let me know, either here, via PM or the PAB submission form. Obviously I cannot guarantee any results but your information will be added to my file and possibly used if and when we are able to present the issue to the Gambling Commissioner.

I repeat, this is specifically for cases involving so-called "bonus abuse" related to having taken a bonus at one or more 888/Cassava properties. If the properties involved clearly declare themselves to be 888/Cassava then your case may not be relevant to our file.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to ask.

Regards,
Max Drayman, Player Complaints Manager, Casinomeister.com
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
It also seems they apply these terms subjectively. I recently took a SUB at 888.games and redeemed it and cashed out OK. I had also, a year previously, taken one at 888.casino another Cassava site. Both occasions I was paid OK after the 72-hour pending. My withdrawals at these two were 90 and 130 respectively, off of small deposits of 20 and 25 respectively.

Now, I get the feeling that had I won a more significant amount, I could have run into issues as Max describes. Obviously in my case the fact both casinos have 888 names told me enough, and I actually went on live chat on the second occasion to clear the bonus and point this fact out to them, and I was told no problem.

The problem seems to be the endless list of bingo sites they have as well as white label casinos. A player who has been around a decade will have almost certainly have played at at least one if Europe-based.

IF they have a time-limit clause, i.e. you took a SUB say more than 2 years ago at another property, and that clears you for another then that's OK. I can't see one however but it may be an 'unwritten' policy which is even more worrying.
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Also beware if you SE'd from a Cassava/888 site!

Dragonfish powered sites are usually Cassava too. It will say so at the bottom of the front page.
When you hit an online bingo site, you will be hard pushed to find one that DOESN’T hold the Cassava name somewhere. However, there is a bit of confusion surrounding the whole Cassava Enterprise. This is because although Cassava is not actually a bingo network as such, they do MANAGE bingo sites for other networks and provide them with proper licensing and payment software. This is why you often see the sentence: “Licensed in Gibraltar through Cassava Enterprises” on sites that are within the Dragonfish, Ignite and Joy of Bingo Networks. Gibraltar is one of the jurisdictions included on the UK Gambling Commission's whitelist as a result of the Gambling Act 2005.

Sites Utilising the Cassava Services:
1.Dragonfish
2.Joy of Bingo
3.Ignite
4.United Bingo
5.Cassava and 888Holdings

A Word of Caution:
Buried in the small print of the terms and conditions is a provision that if you self-exclude from any Cassava operated site, you are not allowed to open or run an account at ANY OTHER Cassava operated site for the period of the self exclusion - and if they find out that you have, any funds in the account will not be paid back to you regardless of whether they are deposits or winnings. Likewise, playing too much free bingo (over 120 games a week), or "bonus abuse" (which is not clearly defined in the terms and conditions) at any of their sites can result in being banned from ALL of them.

That is definitely rogue behaviour - the policy of all decent sites (and I believe this is in the licensing regulations somewhere) is that SE'd players should have the account neutralized, i.e. not being paid winnings and deposits refunded.

All Bingo Sites Run by Cassava Enterprises:

Telly Talk Bingo
Bubble Bonus Bingo
Stash Bingo
Bingo3X
Posh Bingo
Glitter Bingo
Costa Bingo
Big Brother Bingo
City Bingo
Tasty Bingo
Sing Bingo
Robin Hood Bingo
Polo Bingo
Fancy Bingo
Bingostreet
Moon Bingo
Red Bus Bingo
888 Bingo
Diva Bingo
Coffee Bingo
Nova Bingo
Celeb Bingo
888 Bonus Bingo
El Cartonazo Bingo
Bingo Fabulous
888 Games Bingo
King Solomons Bingo
888 Ladies
Wink Bingo
Silk Bingo
Fairys Bingo
We Want Bingo
Sparkling Bingo
Bingo Please
Bingo Night In
Bingo Me Happy
Bingo Scotland
Mirror Bingo
Rollover Bingo
Gossip Bingo
Red Carpet Bingo
Bingo Giving
Champagne Bingo
Brits Bingo
Think Bingo
Up Your Bingo
Sunday Mail Bingo
Two Fat Ladies
We Luv Bingo
Spectra Bingo
Genie Bingo
Sophie's Bingo
Bingo Parlour
Bingo Jetset
Foxy Zero
Bingo Ireland
Foxy Bingo
Get Minted Bingo
Bingo Hollywood
Daily Record Bingo
Bingo Dome
Little Big Bingo
Bingo Cove
Cheeky Bingo
Kiss My Bingo
Pink Ladies Bingo
Bingo Bongo
Bingolicious
Bingo Yard
3am Bingo
Bingo Wags
Glorious Bingo
4TheGame Bingo
Bingo Waves
Gold Medal Bingo
Abc Bingo.co.uk
Net Palace Bingo
Banana Gold Bingo
Pink Ribbon Bingo
ITV Bingo
OfferXBingo.co.uk
Banjo Bingo
Bingo-lottery.co.uk
GPL Bingo
Online Bingo Chief
Big Red Games Bingo
Bingotime
Grace's Bingo
Paint The Town Bingo
Biggest Bingo
Happy Slots Bingo
Peachy Bingo
Bingo 3X
Hippo Bingo
People Bingo
Bingo 4 Her
Candis Bingo
People's Postcode Lottery's Bingo
Bingo Allday
Jackpot Bingo
Pink Bingo
Bingo Ballroom
Bingo Online
Bingo Bonus
Plus Bingo
Bingo Boudoir
Bingo Broadway
Closer Bingo
Bingo Calling
Club Bingo
Lippy Bingo
Prize Bingo
Bingo Chatter
Cricinfo Bingo
Bingo Flirt
Daisy Bingo
Loads Of Bingo
Bingo Gringo
Loquax Bingo
Easyodds.com Bingo
Bingo Hearts
Safari Bingo
Shampoo Bingo
Bingo House
Female Bingo
Lotto24 Bingo
Bingo In The Sun
Flipside Bingo
Smart Live Bingo
Lucky Player Bingo
Snap Bingo
Lucky Surf bingo
So Bingo
luv2bingo
Magic Bingo
Mile High Bingo
Get Lucky Bingo
Million 21 Bingo
Spin Win Bingo
STV Bingo
Tickle Bingo
Sunday Life Bingo
Timeout Female Bingo
UK-Bingo
Top Ten Bingo
UK Win Bingo
Whiterose Bingo
Bingo Tryst
Bingo Wag
Vegas Bingo
Bingo Hall

Blacklisted Cassava Bingo Sites to Avoid:

Cyber Bingo
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
It also seems they apply these terms subjectively.
I believe it's fair to say the "subjective" is Standard Operating Procedure for this group. They'll invoke the rule(s) if and when they see fit, no explanation required or to be expected.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
They have also practiced deliberate entrapment in the past. Whenever I left the 888 website, and exit popup kept inviting me to try out their sister site, Reef Club, and showed me the juicy welcome bonus. They STILL operate a deliberate marketing policy of entrapment as when a player registers at one site, they are added to the mailing list for all the spam invites from all their other sites.

The one thing they have got partially right is their across the board self exclusion, but it is currently designed to make money from the weak willed as they don't check for a self exclusion when a player signs up, only when they win. They then reverse the result by treating the DEPOSITS as money lost by the player, even if they had won.

This policy can lead to some serious trouble for the group, as they are both a "no can do" here and Gibraltar more or less rubber stamps their decisions. Players who deposit by credit card and get screwed because of a previous self exclusion are going to be getting advised to take the issue up with their banks here in the UK, as our own regulatory bodies will refuse to help as 888 "is not within our jurisdiction". Most casinos DO refund the deposits because they are aware that not doing so exposes them to having players use more formal methods of recovery. If Cassava are routinely confiscating deposits, they must be suffering a high volume of chargebacks. It will be worse because they even PENALISE players for not depositing via credit or debit card because eWallet deposits have double WR attached, possibly even more now.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
CAG
MM
Well VWM, aren't Cassava the government in Gibraltar.....? ;)
They are a VERY large employer. This creates a significant conflict of interest for the government there. If Cassava leave, Gibraltar's economy is ****ed. This is a big problem as the government can be blackmailed by a company they are supposed to be regulating. If a law is passed that Cassava don't like, they can threaten to pull out. It would be very hard for the government to stand up to this kind of bullying. It's a problem that most of these small nation states have when offering online gambling licenses. Larger countries can stand up to some pretty big companies, but even the biggest countries can find themselves bullied into submission by the biggest global conglomerates. The USA vs "Big Pharma" is one example, the "West vs Oil" is another.
 
Top