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Bugsysclub rigged deals

Discussion in 'Online Casino and Poker Complaints - old section' started by SureDeath, Dec 30, 2004.

    Dec 30, 2004
  1. SureDeath

    SureDeath Dormant account

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    After several months of extensive play and collection and analysis of hand history of well over 50k hands I have come to the conclusion the way hands are dealt at this site is not random.

    It's not so much they favour particular players, but they manage to deal setups inducing big betting from many players. As a result they probably take more rake in rings and become strangely attractive for bad players making big gambles on the wrong hands.

    Number of times 3 pocket pairs are shown (so there are more probably) far outranks the expected percentage. Nice and typical example are hands like these, they can be regularly seen, or at least similar. KK vs QQ vs 33, board A5426. Trips being beat on the river, FH beaten by bigger FH just happens too often.
    How about making straight flush 5 times in a month ???

    Number of times AA gets dealt is too high , the amount of times it is cracked by weaker pocket pairs in showdowns is almost double what it should be. And the list goes on and on. Funny thing is complaints in table chat are abundant, yet only a few finally leave. I admit I stayed longer than I wanted to as well.

    I would not be surprised the number of times each card is dealt nicely fits the statistical random expectations, but the way cards are dealt per hand clearly is far from random.

    I don't know how it is done, but you must get suspicious when all too often you get a call from a no-hand like Q2s after a pot bet in NLHE (KK) and the flop comes Q2, and the river brings another deuce.

    So wether or not some people have more info on the cards to come or the cards are dealt based on who calls with a given pocket, I don't know what methods are used, but it's clearly the weirdest site I have played, when looking at bad beats and bet-inducing setups.

    AVOID it. And if someone knows how to go after these imposters, glad to know ! It's amazing what these guys get away with.

    PS I have written some scripts that quickly filter hand history out of Bugsysclub text files and put the relevant bits in a MySQL database, so I can quickly make any query I like. If someone has additional hand history or saved table chat from that site, fee free to let me know.
     
  2. Dec 30, 2004
  3. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Occupation:
    Pro Poker Player
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I would like to hear what your databse does. As far as I know Bugsys is not supported by Pokertracker or any other similar program.

    As far as the games there I found them to be very beatable and high variance. So you must play there non stop to get 50,000 hands as there is normally not enough games to multi same limit games.

    My take on Bugsy's is that it is full of swimmimg fishies. It is (was maybe its been a few months) a crappy boss media software. I doubt it could be rigged. Actually there is a thread about Boss poker rooms in the poker forum (Sporting bet I think) with some of the same allegations you made too. Problem is that when you have pokerschool feeding into your poker room you will have some wild games. Keep in mind many of these players could not even spell poker 2 months ago, now they think they are the next WSOP winner.

    I play 7000-10,000 hands a week. I see all the things you describe anywhere. I have even seen a hand where 2 players had KK and 2 players had AA at Paradise. The 2 KK's split when a 4 card straight hit.

    If it is a limit game figure out how many big bets per 100 hands you lost. This does not say much but it is probably not as big as you think after so many hands.

    I am not defending them, like I said I have not played there in months. Take it into perspective. If some players who flopped 100% were huge consistant winners then I would worry. If the bad beats were random and divided even then they are just loose games.

    The two things I did not like about Bugsy's were the crap software although I like their tourney structure, the other was the fact they would not let me cash out but once every 7 days. As far as i know this is the only room that has a restriction like this. I won money in what I felt were very beatable games in my 2 visits there.
     
  4. Dec 31, 2004
  5. SureDeath

    SureDeath Dormant account

    Location:
    The Netherlands
    I have been playing a lot indeed, on average 6 hrs daily since march I think. I play mostly no limit, and mostly MTT's. Never or seldom play more tables simultaneously.

    The database itself doesn't do much, it just holds the relevant data per hand: cards dealt (as far as they are shown), player stacks/bets, hand number, hand outcome, and some metadata I calculate on the fly to make queries easier to construct. (things like: all-in moment, num of players seeing flop/turn/river, hands not shown but mentioned in comments.)

    It's the adhoc mysql queries that make it worthwile. Though not always optimal due to the way things are organized in the tables, in principle any query can be crafted.

    I am now also making a similar db with random data, to be able to make nice comparisons with the actual data.

    I contemplate making the db and some of the scripts public, so anyone playing bugsy's can enter their own hand history to see some analysis results.

    Haven't got much time these days unfortunately, so it will take a while I suppose. Will post a link here if and once it's ready.

    Next is another table with player-specific information: style, aggressiveness, bluff-behaviour et cetera. This one is more of a challenge, if i want software to decide what's what. May never work fully.

    Rgds
    Suredeath
     
  6. Dec 31, 2004
  7. paul1

    paul1 Dormant account


    oh man, the proverbial must have hit the fan pre-flop. :D

    But regarding Boss's network, at least in the smaller limits, these have got to be some of the stupidest players in the universe. I don't mean to sound snobby. But what can I say? It is what it is. And I don't mean to insult any nationality, but somehow this network has acquired a lot of players from Turkey. At first I had to look up the hometowns as I did not recognize them nor the language these players were chatting in. But OMG, if someone with a clue has difficulty beating these players from Turkey, then they better go back to the basics. Or just quit playing. If you sit in a game and three people are from Ankara or Istanbul or whatever, expect to see some very strange and seemingly brainless play. Who CARES about a number generator? Just make sure you have someone from Ankara in your game. :thumbsup:

    Anyway, I too have my gripes about Boss's "crappy" software. Too much to it. Too slow. But I have NEVER doubted its fairness. Not in poker or their casino. I think it's a fair deal.
     

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