Brexit - whats the difference.....

[mack341]

Yes Truss needs to give her head a shake, the rise in NI won't exactly matter if all small/family businesses go under, many were already hit for 6 by the lockdowns.

I thought we could make electricity from oil rather than gas, and seeing as the whole world was kind of put on pause for 2 years the oil reserves should be healthy. The world has enough oil atm, even without russia's, and what india and china buy off them ought to leave more of the rest of the world's supply for us to use.

Definitley shouldn't be seeing these ridiculous rises, might sound far fetched but there will be suicides and all manner of health problems arising out of this; children already in at risk homes especially could be in danger, just like they were in lockdown from deranged and angry parents.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This probably belongs more in this thread than the Leadership Election thread, although they're related.

I know, 'Brexit turns out to be a massive pack of lies' is hardly headline news at this point, but Truss isn't even in the PM's chair yet and she's already talking about fucking workers over.

Ahhhh, Project Fear, I remember that.

Here's how we started.



And here's where we are.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Wetherspoons boss Tim Martin says that Brexit would be great if we got rid of the bits of it that are Brexity.

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[ChopleyIOM]

I've said before that Brexit is the worst thing that ever happened to Farage. It has at least revealed him as the Arthur Daley grifter he clearly is though.

For that true Brexit experience, he hasn't even spelled 'taste' properly.

FORTY QUID A BOTTLE.

 

[dunover]

3 consecutive posts? Chopley is talking to himself now, a sure sign of impending madness. Reminds me of the police guy in the old Pink Panther films with Peter Sellers in, when he had become completely obsessed with Clouseau and was eventually left ranting solo in a padded cell in a straitjacket.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

3 consecutive posts? Chopley is talking to himself now, a sure sign of impending madness. Reminds me of the police guy in the old Pink Panther films with Peter Sellers in, when he had become completely obsessed with Clouseau and was eventually left ranting solo in a padded cell in a straitjacket.

Feel free to balance things out with Brexit Good News Stories whenever you can actually find one

 

[ChopleyIOM]

He's fixed the spelling of 'taste' now, so technically this video's title is now better than the entirety of Brexit in that it functions correctly on a basic level.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

'This isn't the Brexit I ordered! And it's France's fault it's shit!

Brexit is a genuine tragedy, so much loss, so much waste, so much damage, the UK so diminished on the world stage, reduced to the status of a petulant toddler crying over its broken toys, screaming 'It's not fair'.

A massive con, perpetrated by lying conmen, and everyone has to pay the price.

 

[mack341]

Diminished on the world stage because we left the EU, dearie me...similar to how are rep suffered when we didn't vote corbyn or starmer in

 

[dunover]

Apparenty, 90% of these invaders leave from the same 10km bit of French shoreline. Now with tens of millions handed over to the French, it seems impossible for them to simply monitor that relatively small area with infra red drones 24/7 and have people on standby to intercept them before they leave to unlawfullly enter our waters or fish them out before they enter our waters.

Either their cops are corrupt, or they are simply relieved to get rid of the chancers from their land and pocket our cash to boot (more likely.) Of course, to make it look good, on days like yesterday when over 1000 invaders left their shores they make a token gesture of obstructing a couple of hundred of them to justify their money. These will have to suffer the inconvenience of camping out for another 24-48 hours until the French authorities quietly wave them off for another go where naturally they will make good their journey without interference, laughing up their sleeves when landing on UK beaches and high-fiving each other - "phew! that was a close one.."

 

[interlog]

Apparenty, 90% of these invaders leave from the same 10km bit of French shoreline. Now with tens of millions handed over to the French, it seems impossible for them to simply monitor that relatively small area with infra red drones 24/7 and have people on standby to intercept them before they leave to unlawfullly enter our waters or fish them out before they enter our waters.

Either their cops are corrupt, or they are simply relieved to get rid of the chancers from their land and pocket our cash to boot (more likely.) Of course, to make it look good, on days like yesterday when over 1000 invaders left their shores they make a token gesture of obstructing a couple of hundred of them to justify their money. These will have to suffer the inconvenience of camping out for another 24-48 hours until the French authorities quietly wave them off for another go where naturally they will make good their journey without interference, laughing up their sleeves when landing on UK beaches and high-fiving each other - "phew! that was a close one.."

In all fairness to the French, they are very good at waving. They gained a lot of experience doing this pre Brexit in Dover when they couldn't be asked to check passports properly to protect the Schengen area.

A leopard never changes it spot apparently......

 

[ChopleyIOM]

This guy isn't getting much in the way of Brexit dividends. (This is, incidentally, a very common story.)

 

[mack341]

Typical EU logic, punish the heavily remainer voting sector of musicians, they will then moan on social media about brexit. The EU knew exactly how long an average music tour goes on for a famous group or singer. So set an arbitrary timespan below that, and then watch the resulting discord.

 

[Kroffe]

More like heavily reaminer voting musicians punishing themselves, no?
Like he says in the tweet 'i was vaguely aware of the new rules'

lol, if your job relies on you being able to freely travel within the EU, maybe look up or atleast think about if that is something that might change if UK leaves the EU.
Its not like its special rules for the UK, you are treated the same as Norwegians, and voted to have it that way.
Wouldnt make much sense to punish musicians from all non EU countries to get back on UK for leaving.
Nobody cares that much about UK, except for the UK.


Edit: Even if that was the plan, targeting the handfull of UK touring musicians that spend more than 50% of every year in the schengen area on tour would not be very efficient.

 

[mack341]

More like heavily reaminer voting musicians punishing themselves, no?
Like he says in the tweet 'i was vaguely aware of the new rules'

lol, if your job relies on you being able to freely travel within the EU, maybe look up or atleast think about if that is something that might change if UK leaves the EU.
Its not like its special rules for the UK, you are treated the same as Norwegians, and voted to have it that way.
Wouldnt make much sense to punish musicians from all non EU countries to get back on UK for leaving.
Nobody cares that much about UK, except for the UK.


Edit: Even if that was the plan, targeting the handfull of UK touring musicians that spend more than 50% of every year in the schengen area on tour would not be very efficient.

From his post it seems he could not obtain an extension, even though he had a job with a famous singer 'anastacia' who is american, I mean she might have a home in europe but if not how did she obtain the right to work in the EU for longer than this uk drummer?

On the 'plan' side, it does work insofar as generating negative brexit optics on social media, and the music sector is still a big part of the uk economy afaik, so there's a double whammy.

The uk govt should've got a better arrangement on the back of all the fishing permits they still give out, but most of the civil service are remainers so probably don't care if brexit fails and may even hope it does.

 

[dunover]

More like heavily reaminer voting musicians punishing themselves, no?
Like he says in the tweet 'i was vaguely aware of the new rules'

lol, if your job relies on you being able to freely travel within the EU, maybe look up or atleast think about if that is something that might change if UK leaves the EU.
Its not like its special rules for the UK, you are treated the same as Norwegians, and voted to have it that way.
Wouldnt make much sense to punish musicians from all non EU countries to get back on UK for leaving.
Nobody cares that much about UK, except for the UK.


Edit: Even if that was the plan, targeting the handfull of UK touring musicians that spend more than 50% of every year in the schengen area on tour would not be very efficient.

Bloody hell! We really have sunk low then....

 

[Kroffe]

From his post it seems he could not obtain an extension, even though he had a job with a famous singer 'anastacia' who is american, I mean she might have a home in europe but if not how did she obtain the right to work in the EU for longer than this uk drummer?

On the 'plan' side, it does work insofar as generating negative brexit optics on social media, and the music sector is still a big part of the uk economy afaik, so there's a double whammy.

The uk govt should've got a better arrangement on the back of all the fishing permits they still give out, but most of the civil service are remainers so probably don't care if brexit fails and may even hope it does.

To me it seems far fetched that any rule applying to all non eu countries would be made specifically to get back at or spite UK in some way.
Mostly because those rules would also affect bigger, more important countries.

Also, he has already been 3 months touring and THEN was asked by Anastacia to come and bang the drums for her during her 3 month tour.
So its not like she have separate rules, its just that this dude is touring with different bands and is one of very very few that might need to stay in the schengen area more than 6 months per year.

Its pretty much a non issue for 'normal' uk bands because they can easily tour schengen area for 3 months, tour non schengen countries 3 months and then go back to schengen for another 3 months if they want.
Easy peasy and same rules for all, even for the big names.
Pretty much the only ones being inconvenienced by this are these musicians for hire that tour with different bands, and i cant imagine its a very large group.

 

[Kroffe]

Bloody hell! We really have sunk low then....

Well, actually you dont really have the same fish&oil money to throw around so we might treat you a bit worse.
Also, UK together with China & Russia seem to appear on all the 'top 10 worst tourists lists'
So its not only about fish and oil money, its also about manners.
Hell, even British people say that British people are the worst tourists.

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[Kroffe]

Dont worry tho, i dont discriminate based on what country tourists come from.
I assume anyone showing up as a tourist here in Northern Sweden is an idiot that must have taken a wrong turn somewhere to end up here.

 

[dunover]

Well, actually you dont really have the same fish&oil money to throw around so we might treat you a bit worse.
Also, UK together with China & Russia seem to appear on all the 'top 10 worst tourists lists'
So its not only about fish and oil money, its also about manners.
Hell, even British people say that British people are the worst tourists.

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Perhaps we would if the govt. had allowed CAMBO oilfield to go ahead and to drill into the huge amount under the south of England. Plus that around the Falklands. Alas they bet on cheap fuels being always available for import to make up the relatively small amount we aren't self-sufficient in. Now they aren't cheap and we've missed the trick. I'm not sure fish are worth mentioning in comparison to oil revenues in Norway. By the way, some UK citizens are the RICHEST per-capita in the world - the Falkland Islanders where the fishing rights IIRC are worth about £1 million for each citizen. Maybe they would make better tourists?

If you rely on selling natural and finite resources for your wealth, then the lower the population the better-off the nation will be. Until they run out or suddenly aren't in demand any more, so the revenue dries up and to fund the state socialism people got used to, the wealth fund is drip-dripped away...


I agree though, many Britons are arrogant and rude wankers. They act like they own the place. Although they probably did at one time.

 

[mack341]

To me it seems far fetched that any rule applying to all non eu countries would be made specifically to get back at or spite UK in some way.
Mostly because those rules would also affect bigger, more important countries.

Also, he has already been 3 months touring and THEN was asked by Anastacia to come and bang the drums for her during her 3 month tour.
So its not like she have separate rules, its just that this dude is touring with different bands and is one of very very few that might need to stay in the schengen area more than 6 months per year.

Its pretty much a non issue for 'normal' uk bands because they can easily tour schengen area for 3 months, tour non schengen countries 3 months and then go back to schengen for another 3 months if they want.
Easy peasy and same rules for all, even for the big names.
Pretty much the only ones being inconvenienced by this are these musicians for hire that tour with different bands, and i cant imagine its a very large group.

That is a very good point, if the rules are the same for everyone non EU then we can't whinge. I obviously didn't read his post properly as I thought he was touring with anastacia already!

I did think 3 months is a pretty decent tour time, musicians seem to make more from tours than record sales these days so I can understand why he is a bit narked.

If the EU was slightly more flexible they could sell a work permit extension to these bands and individuals and get a bit of dough in their kitty, that would make sense to me.

 

[Kroffe]

I agree though, many Britons are arrogant and rude wankers. They act like they own the place. Although they probably did at one time.

I didnt check all lists, but that is pretty much what the complaints were towards the countries that showed up on the lists.
'not respecting local customs' more or less, just going by the lists people from mainlaind China seems to be the worst for that because of their lack of respect for personal space.
I think for British people its more the 'Drunk&Loud' thing people complain about, same for Germans.

I dont really have enough experience with tourists to have an own opinion, we do get tourists in Northern Sweden but they usually go much further North to visit the ice hotel or watch the northern lights and ride dog sleds etc.
Nobody wants to visit an old used-to-be fishing village in the middle of nowhere, its pretty neat.

 

[Kroffe]

That is a very good point, if the rules are the same for everyone non EU then we can't whinge. I obviously didn't read his post properly as I thought he was touring with anastacia already!

I did think 3 months is a pretty decent tour time, musicians seem to make more from tours than record sales these days so I can understand why he is a bit narked.

If the EU was slightly more flexible they could sell a work permit extension to these bands and individuals and get a bit of dough in their kitty, that would make sense to me.

I think EU were actually trying to be more flexible, but would have required the same flexibility from UK:s end, and in the name of 'taking back control' that deal was shot down.

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Edit: maybe im confused, and that is exactly the deal UK & EU has now.
Is it 90 days without a visa now or do UK musicians need a visa to get into and tour in the schengen area?

 

[mack341]

I think EU were actually trying to be more flexible, but would have required the same flexibility from UK:s end, and in the name of 'taking back control' that deal was shot down.

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Edit: maybe im confused, and that is exactly the deal UK & EU has now.
Is it 90 days without a visa now or do UK musicians need a visa to get into and tour in the schengen area?

It's all very complicated it seems, there was an EU mobility offer but it was aimed at a wider area than simply musicians and performers, so the uk govt turned it down.

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The position for UK musicians travelling to the EU is more complicated (as we shall see) but it is almost certainly the case that no EU country will restrict their ability to play for free as a visitor under the usual visa-free Schengen travel arrangements applicable to third country nationals (including, now, UK nationals) – i.e. no visa is required for travel of up to 90 days in any period of 180 days.

The position for paid gigs is more complicated....

For UK musicians visiting the EU, it all depends where you are going. Without an EU-wide commitment as part of the Trade and Cooperation deal, there are 26 different sets of rules.

Culture Minister Caroline Dinenage tellingly described the EU mobility offer as “general freedom of movement/work”, as opposed to the “specific provision for musicians/artists” proposed by the UK. Being allowed to work visa-free for 90 days is a far cry from pre-Brexit freedom of movement, but it evidently felt too close to it for this government: an end to freedom of movement must be seen to have been achieved, even if the price is lost opportunities for the UK’s creative sector.

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I'm sure if big money record labels are involved it will eventually be resolved somehow to smooth away the touring issues.

 

[Kroffe]

It's all very complicated it seems, there was an EU mobility offer but it was aimed at a wider area than simply musicians and performers, so the uk govt turned it down.

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The position for UK musicians travelling to the EU is more complicated (as we shall see) but it is almost certainly the case that no EU country will restrict their ability to play for free as a visitor under the usual visa-free Schengen travel arrangements applicable to third country nationals (including, now, UK nationals) – i.e. no visa is required for travel of up to 90 days in any period of 180 days.

The position for paid gigs is more complicated....

For UK musicians visiting the EU, it all depends where you are going. Without an EU-wide commitment as part of the Trade and Cooperation deal, there are 26 different sets of rules.

Culture Minister Caroline Dinenage tellingly described the EU mobility offer as “general freedom of movement/work”, as opposed to the “specific provision for musicians/artists” proposed by the UK. Being allowed to work visa-free for 90 days is a far cry from pre-Brexit freedom of movement, but it evidently felt too close to it for this government: an end to freedom of movement must be seen to have been achieved, even if the price is lost opportunities for the UK’s creative sector.

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I'm sure if big money record labels are involved it will eventually be resolved somehow to smooth away the touring issues.

I honestly think its not much of an issue, because most artists/bands will have no problem doing no more than 3 months touring over a 6 month period, even those that want to tour more than 3 months in the schengen area can do as much as 6 months of touring if they spend 3 months touring outside the schengen area after their first 3 months in the schengen area.

I assume the vast majority of musicians are 100% unaffected by this rule, only musicians not able to set their own schedules will be affected, and that is mainly these 'for hire' musicians that tour with different bands.
Because if they only tour with one band the band would obviously adapt to their singer/drummer whatever, so that the tour works for everyone involved.
And even these touring for hire musicians are not exactly screwed over, but they may have to be a bit more selective with what bands they tour with and when.

The 90/180 rule seems to apply to all non eu countries as far as i can see, and i dont see articles from around the globe saying its some sort of major problem, which means its probably more or less a non-issue.