Brexit - whats the difference.....

cncas2123

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This you Kate?

Yet another entirely predictable (and predicted!) consequence of Brexit, and in particular Johnson's truly rotten deal - let's hope things don't escalate from here.

Brexit always presented an existential threat to the peace process, and its costs may yet be measured in human lives.

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This hasn’t that much to do with Brexit, it’s a lot deeper than that.
A very small element is the NI protocol , but this has been brewing up for 20 years and the final straw was the PSNI handling of a funeral that flouted Covid restrictions and was seen by many as a slap in the face to the majority of people in NI.
I don’t agree in any form with what is happening on the streets here, but it’s not right to say it’s been caused by Brexit.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Brewing for twenty years but just happens to have coincidentally exploded within four months of Brexit and the erection of a border in the Irish Sea.

Undoubtedly there are other factors and tensions at play, but the fact remains that Brexit represents the biggest (negative) change to circumstances there for a very long time.

Decent thread here:

 
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paul7388

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Brewing for twenty years but just happens to have coincidentally exploded within four months of Brexit and the erection of a border in the Irish Sea.

Undoubtedly there are other factors and tensions at play, but the fact remains that Brexit represents the biggest (negative) change to circumstances for a very long time.

Decent thread here:

Like has been said it has sod all to do with Brexit.

It has more to do with the fact people were pissed of with the fact several people never got charged for breaking coronavirus rules and attending a funeral.

And even because it is not in news all the time there is regularly still trouble over there.

Really I know you hate Brexit but scouring internet and adding articles from certain sources that aren't entirely accurate just to get your point across. That is sort of thing you normally call out other people for.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Like has been said it has sod all to do with Brexit.

It has more to do with the fact people were pissed of with the fact several people never got charged for breaking coronavirus rules and attending a funeral.

And even because it is not in news all the time there is regularly still trouble over there.

Really I know you hate Brexit but scouring internet and adding articles from certain sources that aren't entirely accurate just to get your point across. That is sort of thing you normally call out other people for.

1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
 

geordiecolin

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Like has been said it has sod all to do with Brexit.

It has more to do with the fact people were pissed of with the fact several people never got charged for breaking coronavirus rules and attending a funeral.

And even because it is not in news all the time there is regularly still trouble over there.

Really I know you hate Brexit but scouring internet and adding articles from certain sources that aren't entirely accurate just to get your point across. That is sort of thing you normally call out other people for.
Remember that your talking to the same guy that mocked the UK for how much it overspent on vaccines because they where not in the EU :D
 

paul7388

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1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
Well if that is what you genuinely believe.

Friends and family that stay in the area and actually know what is happening day to day would disagree.

But I suppose all these experts know better than the people actually involved and the ones experiencing what happens on a day to day basis.

It has never been stable there it only ever takes one minute thing to stir up trouble. And sorry the latest happenings were nothing at all to do with Brexit.
 

paul7388

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Brewing for twenty years but just happens to have coincidentally exploded within four months of Brexit and the erection of a border in the Irish Sea.

Undoubtedly there are other factors and tensions at play, but the fact remains that Brexit represents the biggest (negative) change to circumstances there for a very long time.

Decent thread here:

And when i was over there a couple of years ago there was a bus hijacked and burnt.a horrible atmosphere and lots of trouble. Funny Brexit had not happened. Guess maybe they were just thinking about what Brexit might cause when they burnt that bus.
 

pinnit2014

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And when i was over there a couple of years ago there was a bus hijacked and burnt.a horrible atmosphere and lots of trouble. Funny Brexit had not happened. Guess maybe they were just thinking about what Brexit might cause when they burnt that bus.
To be fair, us lot burning things out back home is inbuilt into our DNA

Any excuse for milk bottles, rags and oil and we're on it: Cadbury's shaving 10% off my chocolate? - Finish that milk bottle, i need to use it.
 

interlog

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I can't see how these riots had anything to do with Brexit too.

Those doing the rioting probably don't even know what Brexit is. Idiots will be idiots.
 

cncas2123

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1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
I live in Belfast.
I live in what would be classed as a loyalist area.
This isn’t Brexit causing this , a lot of people within loyalist communities feel , rightly or wrongly, that they have been left behind in the sharing of the peace dividend from the GFA.
There is still a very strong underlying current of them and us in both communities in NI , and that has never been addressed by the political situation here, as the two main parties only seem to want to drive that agenda.
Last year, at the height of Covid restrictions, a leading Sinn Fein member died. At the time of his death there were many restrictions on the number of people that could attend funerals. 24 MLA’ from Sinn Fein, politicians from the ROI and over 2,000 other people attended the funeral parade , clearly in breach of regulations.
A parade around a cemetery went ahead as part of the funeral , even through the body was not to be buried there.
Families had to wait outside the gates of the only crematorium in NI and say goodbye to their loved ones for the final time. The family members for this funeral were allowed in to crematorium. This was clear double standards, and when the PPS decided not to press charges after an investigation into all this , that was the final straw for many loyalists and they didn’t need much persuasion to kick off.
Brexit and the NI protocol isn’t causing these events , but it is certainty being used by some to keep the fires raging.
And not everything in this world has to revolve around Brexit.
 

irish-ranger

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1) It is impossible for you to categorically state it has 'sod all' to do with Brexit, and specifically with the NI Protocol. Plenty of clued-up folks are saying that the NI Protocol has had a detrimental effect on stability in Ireland.

2) That may very well be a contributing factor.

3) I know.

4) It's being pretty widely reported this morning, 'scouring' not exactly required.
Well heres it in lay man's terms "this has fuck all to do with brexit" it's down to 1 rule for them and another for us, yes and it might be widely reported but its bull shite.
 

mcgameboy

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My thoughts on commenting on this thread at this current moment are much the same as those that Ricky Gervais had when he
pondered if it was a good idea to do a joke about a Holocaust-themed movie having no gag reel on the DVD.

"Don't do it"

"It'll be fine"

Conclusion: Best say nothing and admit that Ricky Gervais has a much bigger pair of balls than I do :oops:

Well, actually, I will say something.

Really not surprised in the slightest that Choppers would choose to use the current situation in Norn Iron as a means for him to have another one of his arrogant, smug as fuck "I told you so" moments re: Brexit (which to be honest, are getting really fucking boring now).

But I was somewhat surprised to find that he was willing to then double down on that arrogance and actually suggest that he is more qualified than PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY FUCKING LIVE IN BELFAST (I live a mere 2.6 miles away from the peace line where that rioting took place on Wednesday night) to decide whether the current tensions are because of Brexit or not.

Really, Choppers? Frankly, you have taken the arrogance cake to a whole new level.

PS As a nationalist, I thought @cncas2123's post (#3810) was a perfect analysis/summary of the situation.

But hey, why let something as annoying as FACTS get in the way of Chopper's feelings? :rolleyes:
 

ChopleyIOM

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Really not surprised in the slightest that Choppers would choose to use the current situation in Norn Iron as a means for him to have another one of his arrogant, smug as fuck "I told you so" moments re: Brexit (which to be honest, are getting really fucking boring now).

Crikey, if only there was some sort of really easy way to avoid reading and/or posting to the thread, and getting so bored with it all.

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Opposing Brexit involves hoping you’re wrong. You want to be wrong about the economic consequences. You want to be wrong about the UK’s international standing. And most of all you want to be wrong about Northern Ireland.

This has therefore been a grim week for both Leavers and Remainers, because they suggest the latter weren’t wrong. The scenes that have played out in the Shankill and Springfield areas of Belfast over the last few days are like a bad dream come to life. They are every warning that was made over the last five years come horribly true.

It began with the decision by public authorities on March 30th not to charge any members of Sinn Fein over a huge funeral which seemed to contradict covid regulations. Rioting has now taken place for seven nights, leading to 55 officers being injured, masked gangs throwing bottles and bricks across ‘peace line’ fortifications, and a torched bus.

The funeral might have sparked it, but it could have been anything. Everyone knows the truth, even if not everyone will admit it: the protocol threw a spanner in the delicate constitutional machinery of Ireland. That then enflamed long-simmering division and a sense of unfairness. If we’re lucky, this will be as bad as it gets – a series of violent skirmishes, mercifully with no-one killed. If we’re unlucky, it is just the start. All it takes is one death – a stray firework or petrol bomb – for things to escalate out of control.

There’s more going on here than Brexit, of course: there’s lack of opportunity, neglect from Westminster, poverty, and the self-interested pot-boiling cynicism of political parties, in particular the DUP. But Brexit was the tinder. It started the fire. And without Brexit we would not be seeing what we are seeing today.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Damn those pesky liberals, I forgot they're wrong about everything. Silly me.
 

ChopleyIOM

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And if anyone cares to read the article linked above, or indeed avail themselves of a consensus of opinion around the current NI situation, no one is saying BREXIT IS 100% TO BLAME FOR THIS. Just the bit I quoted above openly acknowledges that there are many complex factors in play here, and also explicitly cites the Sinn Fein funeral that has been mentioned by a couple of people in this thread.

However, it's pretty much impossible to argue that the NI Protocol (which of course is part of Brexit) hasn't had a negative effect in not only practical terms, but also in emotional terms. The people of NI were promised there would never be a border of any kind between NI and the rest of the UK, but that's what they've ended up with, a border straight down the Irish Sea.

Like with a lot of Brexit, it's not all black and white, it's many shades of murky grey, and it takes time for the ugly truths of what Brexit means, on so many levels, to finally start to reveal themselves.
 

cncas2123

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So the eminent reporter thinks that the disquiet and lack of opportunity is mainly a consequence of Brexit?
Nope, the loyalist community in general, and a lot of nationalist communities, feel that they have missed out on the GFA peace dividend, particularly when they see paramilitaries living the high life while their communities aren't seeing much in the way of improvement.
The PPS decision was the final straw for many, and their were many willing to grasp this straw and send impressionable teenagers out to the streets to cause mayhem.
Brexit is a side issue in these communities as they havent really felt the effects of it yet.
But sure what would I know, I have only lived here for 53 years and spent my years growing up listening to the bombs going off and seeing death and destruction on the news most days.
 

ChopleyIOM

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Another good analysis here. Once again it is not in any way suggesting that Brexit and the NI Protocol are the only reasons we've seen trouble flare up, it discusses multiple factors that are involved, many of them that have been simmering for a very long time, and of course the impact of Covid.

But once again, to say 'Brexit has nothing to do with any of this' is a very blinkered argument to try and make. It's part of the problem, and it's made things worse.

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The roots of the violence that flared up over the past week on the streets of Belfast are like everything else in Northern Irish politics – complicated.

On 30 June last year, in the midst of the Coronavirus pandemic, leading Sinn Féin and Republican officials turned out for the funeral of Bobby Storey, a former major figure in the IRA.

That event, attended by some 2,000 people – including the Deputy First Minister Michelle O’Neill and former Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams – sparked fury in Unionist circles. Footage showed that few of the mourners were wearing face coverings and it looked like social distancing measures weren’t being adhered to. But, more than that, the scale of the event was clearly out of keeping with COVID-19 guidelines and, when it emerged that O’Neill had met the Police Service of Northern Ireland’s Chief Constable prior to the event, fury mounted.

For many, the funeral was proof of the long-running narrative in loyalist communities that Republicans receive preferential treatment and that, since the Good Friday Agreement was signed in 1998, it had been ‘one rule for us and another for them’.

The
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, announced by Northern Ireland’s Public Prosecution Service last week, that there would be no attempt to prosecute anyone attending the funeral was undoubtedly the spark that lit the riots of the past week.

But that was not the only factor at play.

Two weeks ago, four members of the
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) were charged with conspiring to supply class A drugs during an ongoing investigation by the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the National Crime Agency. Many Northern Ireland commentators have suggested that the outfit has ‘piggy-backed’ on broader Unionist anger and that the violence was stoked by them in response to those arrests.

Matters have not been helped by the ongoing tensions around COVID-19 restrictions which have deepened social deprivation in the region, under-investment in poorer areas and led to rising
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.

But, as that red double-decker bus burned on the Shankill Road on Wednesday night, few were in doubt that the metaphors were writing themselves: for at the bitter heart of the current discontent lies Brexit.

----------------------

There is little doubt that leaving the EU is proving to be an unmitigated disaster for Northern Ireland.

While the peace process that was forged in the 1990s was not itself predicated on membership of the EU, it was the shared membership of it by the UK and the Republic of Ireland that enabled it to work. Open borders, the Customs Union and the Single Market allowed freedom of access and movement back and forth across Ireland and, with it, the facilitation of peace.

Brexit resurrected real and imagined barriers and the botched solution that is the Northern Ireland Protocol has only made things worse. That undertaking, which essentially places a border in the Irish Sea while keeping Northern Ireland in the Single Market, has created another nightmare altogether. For quite apart from businesses in Northern Ireland now having to fill in a mountain of paperwork, it has plunged many Unionists into an existential crisis.

To many loyalists and unionists, the Northern Ireland Protocol is a betrayal which undermines their place in the United Kingdom and leaves them out in the EU cold.

It would all be depressing enough if it had not been so widely predicted.
 

interlog

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Damn those pesky liberals, I forgot they're wrong about everything. Silly me.

It just shows your political prejudice, bias and hatred of anything Tory or slightly right of the political spectrum. Almost every one of your posts has this theme.
 
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