Brexit - whats the difference.....

[bamberfishcake]

Apparently they taste foul.

Love a good Dad joke.

It's good to keep a'breast' of the situation.

(best I could muster)

 

[geordiecolin]

Love a good Dad joke.

It's good to keep a'breast' of the situation.

(best I could muster)

Apparently Pigeon English is not excepted in Europe

 

[goatwack]

Had a work colleague who'd converse to another colleague in pigeon English.

Strange dialect, but they knew what was being said. Didn't know feather to laugh or cry.

 

[bamberfishcake]

I heard that the UK is about to react by staging a coo.

 

[geordiecolin]

I heard that the UK is about to react by staging a coo.

I just checked the feather forecast for across the channel before a recon mission

 

[mcgameboy]

I heard that the UK is about to react by staging a coo.

Is this coo going to be called (drum roll please).......

Peck-xit?

Emmanuel Ma-crow-n won't like that at all. In fact, he might go stark raven mad.

So glad to see that CM in-thread punning contests are beak......

 

[dunover]

Before @ChopleyIOM sees it:

Post-Brexit Christmas School Dinner:

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But they DID have a single pig-in-blanket, you gotta admit....

Lucky little bastards, they even had a a whole mince pie each, beats the single slice of Tesco value bread, rejected bottom-of-the-tin round toffee Quality Street and Turkey Twizzler in our house and a diluted teaspoon of Bovril to act as gravy....

 

[dunover]

Hey - @ChopleyIOM - Did the second tranche of Christmas shop this morning (fresh goods) after doing all the boxes of sweets, biscuits, nuts, savouries etc. 2 weeks ago nearly.

Not a thing missing. Lovely 2.5kg meat-only turkey breast £20, £15 for a lovely 1.9kg fresh cut bit of silverside beef, ham joint, smoked gammon joint, sprouts, fresh broccoli, carrots, cauliflower, cream, pigs-in-blankets were aplenty (already got those in freezer anyway!) cheeses from various countries blah blah. Not a thing missing, Santa's elves must have been moonighting as truckers, Donner and Blitzen crossing the UK-EU borders with ease.

So for the second successive Brexmas the dunover household will have everything on the table that er.. it had in 2019, 2018, 2017....

In fact, it would be even better than all pre-Brexit Christmases should there be serious issues with the usual constant supply of A*t & D*c, Call the Fucking Midwife and speaking of ham, the sodding soaps.

Only negative is that none of us have had a positive lateral flow test recently so no excuse to bar the in-laws unlike when we had lockdown last Christmas, but there's still 2 days to go so that could change yet....

 

[goatwack]

I admire your gusto Dunover, but I fear even the allure of pigs-in-blankets won't be enough to whisk the Chopster back

I suppose the only realistic thing for that to happen, is if de Pfeffel opened an account at CM and tagged him. God knows Chopley would love that

 

[dunover]

I admire your gusto Dunover, but I fear even the allure of pigs-in-blankets won't be enough to whisk the Chopster back

I suppose the only realistic thing for that to happen, is if de Pfeffel opened an account at CM and tagged him. God knows Chopley would love that

He only appears when articles of doom and gloom or negativity arise in the media. The last thing he wants to hear is us having full shopping trolleys and not eating a bowl of lukewarm gruel on Christmas day.

 

[justdoit]

 

[geordiecolin]

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Meh. Going to build back better with some homemade boris in blankets

 

[ChopleyIOM]

I tapped out of this thread back in October last year, the debate seemed to be going nowhere, we were all going round in circles, and whilst to my mind the evidence was already very much into the realms of 'Brexit is a disaster even on its own terms' it was perhaps, a bit early in the piece to be asserting that - plus I was up against dunover claiming a 'Brexit victory' as being able to...... go shopping. (No, really!)

A further eight months down the line though. with Covid in the rear view mirror (and thus no longer being able to provide cover for Brexit), we can genuinely start to look at the concrete, real world impact of Brexit, and what it means for the UK. (And yes, I know 'BUT WAR IN UKRAINE' is the new Covid, but like Covid, all countries in the world are impacted by it, not just the UK, so we can look at comparative indicators from other economies.)

And in short, Brexit has fucked the pooch, to the extent that even the Brexiteers themselves have formed various circular firing squads to try and find someone else to blame for their grand project having crumbled into dust when measured against every conceivable metric.

There are no positives, nothing, when pushed to pick his favourite Brexit dividend a few days ago, Jacob Rees-Mogg blithered on about signs in the Dartford Tunnel having 'funny numbers' on them because of EU rules but now we can fix that because YAY FREEDOM. (I'm not making that up.)



No one's even pretending there are any economic benefits any more, it'd be the equivalent of standing in a lake and saying your feet weren't wet. The long term economic impact of Brexit on UK GDP is now agreed to be twice the damage that Covid did, except Brexit is permanent damage, it's a self-inflicted wound from which the UK will not recover - every single year the UK economy will bleed out tens of billions of pounds in lost economic potential, and we did it to ourselves.

And what did we take back control of? Well once again, we have Jacob Rees-Mogg telling us that we have escaped the tyranny of mobile phone manufacturers having to standardise their cables and chargers to use USB-C. (Again folks, I'm not making it up, I really wish I was.)



All the usual suspects are lining up to explain why it's gone wrong, I particularly enjoyed David Davis saying we got a 'Remainers' Brexit' (despite it being pretty much the hardest possible Brexit imaginable outside of a complete No-Deal Brexit):



Brexit has hurt our economy, it's hurt our standing on the world stage, it's devastated fishing and small and medium sized enterprises that traded with the EU, the bigger players have simply paid the extra costs and passed it onto consumers, Brexit is now widely recognised as being a significant contributing factor to current UK inflation, especially food price inflation. And of course, as Covid travel restrictions have lifted, Brits going abroad for their holidays have found out what it's like to have to wait in the non-EU lines at Customs.

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Brexit has delivered nothing but pain, it's a busted flush so monumental it can be seen from space with the naked eye. Even its most ardent advocates are now engaged in nothing more than damage limitation, whilst trying to find someone, anyone but themselves, to blame. (So we have Daniel Hannan, for example, now saying we should have stayed in the Single Market.)

Tales like this abound, with people who voted for Brexit wishing they could recant, and take back the misery and extra costs they have inflicted upon their businesses, whilst draining jobs and money from the UK economy in the process.

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So yeah, thanks Brexit - you absolute twat of a thing.

 

[goatwack]

Firstly, welcome home Chopley, back in the Brexit bosom of fellowship

I don't think anyone's calling Brexit a runaway success, because of everything cost- related being attributed to Covid, Ukraine or swashbuckling themes like unfettered Immigration.

We won't see a proper breakdown of what Brexit's wrought as we won't be given a chance to. With new issues arising at an unprecedented rate and everything moving at breakneck speed no one really has the inclination to study anything at great length, with distractions aplenty.

Brexit's been essentially consigned to the Recycle Bin, as world leaders churn out their next soundbite for us to mull over. And as Cost of Living is dominating the narrative, I wouldn't expect a Brexit blowback anytime soon, but rather, a Ukraine War-inspired domino effect that people have accepted as the reason for our current predicament....

 

[pinnit2014]

That's the thing isn't it - quite difficult to unpick a lot things: work wise, we're still seeing a lot of 'the effects of Covid' (or at least, that's were issues are having their hat hung onto)- probably more than Brexit, at the time being. Before that, it was 'Brexit Uncertainty'.

From what i've seen though, the effects of CV has been far more temporary and, in a work capacity, some of the areas are actually exceeding pre-CV levels. Some, not so much: mixed bag at the moment.

Ok here though - Nicola though, despite the issue of the deficit in re-joining, will wave her magic wand following a comprehensive 51:49 vote on Independence (at the 2nd, 3rd or 10th attempt: how many it takes), and get Scotland back in the boys club. There's nothing like securing independence on a Monday and seeking dependence on a Tuesday

I've already signed up to building a picket fence as the Border.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Firstly, welcome home Chopley, back in the Brexit bosom of fellowship

I don't think anyone's calling Brexit a runaway success, because of everything cost- related being attributed to Covid, Ukraine or swashbuckling themes like unfettered Immigration.

We won't see a proper breakdown of what Brexit's wrought as we won't be given a chance to. With new issues arising at an unprecedented rate and everything moving at breakneck speed no one really has the inclination to study anything at great length, with distractions aplenty.

Brexit's been essentially consigned to the Recycle Bin, as world leaders churn out their next soundbite for us to mull over. And as Cost of Living is dominating the narrative, I wouldn't expect a Brexit blowback anytime soon, but rather, a Ukraine War-inspired domino effect that people have accepted as the reason for our current predicament....

For me though Mr Goaty, we shouldn't and indeed can't just consign it to the recycle bin. Brexit happened, we're out of the EU and out of transition, that's a fact and it isn't going to change for a long time, if ever.

However, we still need to deal with the new reality of being outside the EU and particularly the Single Market and Customs Union, because those conditions are hurting the UK economically and politically, as well as just being a massive ballache for all kinds of reasons.

We do now have the data to analyse the harms of Brexit, yes Covid is in there and so is the war in Ukraine, along with whatever other external factors are in play at any given time - but whichever way you slice it, Brexit is clearly a net loss for the UK, so now we have to think about ways we can make it better.

It's not about Remainers and Leavers any more, it's about everyone having to deal, collectively, with the damage that Brexit has done.

Tobias Ellwood wrote a decent piece about it the other day. These are the conversations we need be having. Johnson constantly parroting 'We got Brexit done' isn't fixing anything.

 

[dunover]

For me though Mr Goaty, we shouldn't and indeed can't just consign it to the recycle bin. Brexit happened, we're out of the EU and out of transition, that's a fact and it isn't going to change for a long time, if ever.

However, we still need to deal with the new reality of being outside the EU and particularly the Single Market and Customs Union, because those conditions are hurting the UK economically and politically, as well as just being a massive ballache for all kinds of reasons.

We do now have the data to analyse the harms of Brexit, yes Covid is in there and so is the war in Ukraine, along with whatever other external factors are in play at any given time - but whichever way you slice it, Brexit is clearly a net loss for the UK, so now we have to think about ways we can make it better.

It's not about Remainers and Leavers any more, it's about everyone having to deal, collectively, with the damage that Brexit has done.

Tobias Ellwood wrote a decent piece about it the other day. These are the conversations we need be having. Johnson constantly parroting 'We got Brexit done' isn't fixing anything.

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View attachment 169266

Yep - even I'm starting to get pissed-off with all this. So much for sovereignty eh?

Cannot deport the streams of cross-channel invaders without some reference to EU human rights shite.

Three of the racist muslim paedophile rape/child abuse gang in Rotherham were pencilled in for deportation to Pakistan. One cannot be and has won an appeal because of EU rights to family life crap and the remaining two have 'renounced' their Pakistan citizenship to evade the same and strung it out for years via appeals (funny how they want to remain in our kufir nation!) I didn't vote leave to be governed by fucking lawyers.

Cannot send a loaf of bread to British territory in NI from say Scotland without aggro.

I think the time is right to negotiate a deal with a customs union again & without open borders. If that's possible. With fascists like Putin about and the need for a combined energy and food self-sufficiency policy we need some unity. With 11,000 miles of relatively windy coastline, untapped oil and gas reserves the UK has a huge capacity to generate power, more so than the individual EU nations.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The thing is that none of this should really come as a surprise, for example leaving the EU was never going to affect the ECHR's judgements or validity in the UK, and it's perhaps worth remembering that one of the key people involved in establishing it, in the wake of the Second World War, was Winston Churchill.

As for lawyers, they don't make laws, the government makes laws. If lawyers think a law has been broken they can make their case in court and then a judge (or judge and jury) will decide the facts of the case - but lawyers can't 'block' anything or 'rule' over anything, if a law hasn't been broken, then they can nothing.

Leaving the EU has made the situation with the cross-channel refugees worse, because we lost access to the reciprocal agreements we had with other EU countries, hence the batshit insane plan to pay Rwanda £120m (and counting!) to, erm, not take any of them off our hands.

Also, as you mention yourself dunover, given what we've seen happen with Ukraine, and the USA largely becoming a lot more remote (whilst still an ally), it's more obvious than ever that we need strong ties with our European neighbours and friends, including militarily. (And we also see, of course, that Ukraine is keen to become an EU member as soon as possible.)

The other big thing with Brexit, which seemed to have been lost in all the 'take back control of our borders' rhetoric, is that it works both ways, so other countries have 'taken back control' too, hence the queues of bemused British tourists waiting for hours at EU Customs points.

In the news today is that the integrity of food safety in the UK is now in peril, and by extension our pig farming industry. Because the UK government hasn't even remotely managed to get the infrastructure and staff in place to do the food safety checks at our borders (which were all handled by EU standards before), we've now become a target for sub-standard meat products from places such as Romania, who are, surprise surprise, targeting the country (the UK) that has essentially advertised it's just waving everything through to keep goods moving.

As for the situation in Northern Ireland, for all the hassle the NI Protocol has caused, the NI economy is actually performing better than the rest of the UK, and both a majority of people and businesses in NI support it. And what does NI still have that the rest of the UK doesn't?

Access to the Single Market.

 

[goatwack]

Yes, I'd want to avoid a repeat of those heady days of horse meat substitutes for mince beef, from some rather unverified European locales, if I can help it.

You'd think they'd extend the courtesy of border management to include better quality control of meat products, and not be bogged down in a quagmire of red tape indefinitely...

 

[ChopleyIOM]

The thing is Monsieur Bouc once we left the EU our borders became entirely our responsibility when it came to stuff like food products, and we're doing a stunningly bad job of protecting them, unlike the EU who took Brexit very seriously and made sure they had all the rules, regulations, infrastructure, staff, customs checking points etc in place ready to go when transition ended. (Oh to have escaped all that EU red-tape and bureaucracy eh?) This is why UK food producers are having such a tawdry time exporting to the EU, and why UK food exports to the EU have cratered since transition ended. These are the rules we were always going to be subjected to once we voluntarily decided to make ourselves a third country outside the Single Market and Customs Union.

Why should the EU give a shit if dodgy Romanians want to send lorry loads of diseased pigs to the UK? We wanted out of the EU, we got out of the EU, our food standards are now our own business, and if we are incapable of policing our borders (which we are), it's not the EU's job to do it for us.

Like I said, 'taking back control' works two ways, the UK isn't the only entity with borders, that unfortunate reality was rather lost in all the tub-thumping rhetoric about SOVRINTEE and all the rest of it.

 

[mack341]

Hold on isn't romania a member state of the EU, bound by all their rules and regulations?

How do the EU officials know the van with the swine fever infected pork doesn't do a few drop offs on its journey through mainland europe to the UK?

 

[ChopleyIOM]

Hold on isn't romania a member state of the EU, bound by all their rules and regulations?

How do the EU officials know the van with the swine fever infected pork doesn't do a few drop offs on its journey through mainland europe to the UK?

Yes it is, so any food that doesn't meet EU standards can't be sold in the EU, but the UK has basically put up a massive neon sign at our ports which read HEY FOLKS WE'RE NOT CHECKING FOOD PRODUCTS THAT COME INTO OUR COUNTRY so if you were a sketchy Romanian meat producer with a load of sub-standard meat you can't sell in the EU, you might well think, 'Hmmmm, special imports for the UK!'

Remember this from back in April?

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The UK government is set to announce a fourth delay to physical checks on fresh food imported from the EU amid industry reports that neither technology nor infrastructure resources were ready for the July start of the next phase of

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.

The Brexit opportunities minister,

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, is expected to frame the move as use of the UK’s newfound independent powers to control the trade border since the departure from the EU and the single market.

He is also expected to say it is a response to supply chain fears in a trading environment already hit by the Ukraine war

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.

The delays could push back the full implementation of Brexit controls until 2023, sources said, with physical checks removed and a potential relaxation on the requirement for import of products, animals, food and feed system (IPAFFS) paperwork.

 

[mack341]

Yes it is, so any food that doesn't meet EU standards can't be sold in the EU, but the UK has basically put up a massive neon sign at our ports which read HEY FOLKS WE'RE NOT CHECKING FOOD PRODUCTS THAT COME INTO OUR COUNTRY so if you were a sketchy Romanian meat producer with a load of sub-standard meat you can't sell in the EU, you might well think, 'Hmmmm, special imports for the UK!'

Remember this from back in April?

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The UK government is set to announce a fourth delay to physical checks on fresh food imported from the EU amid industry reports that neither technology nor infrastructure resources were ready for the July start of the next phase of

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

The Brexit opportunities minister,

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

, is expected to frame the move as use of the UK’s newfound independent powers to control the trade border since the departure from the EU and the single market.

He is also expected to say it is a response to supply chain fears in a trading environment already hit by the Ukraine war

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

.

The delays could push back the full implementation of Brexit controls until 2023, sources said, with physical checks removed and a potential relaxation on the requirement for import of products, animals, food and feed system (IPAFFS) paperwork.

View attachment 169347

"Health protection is the aim of all EU laws and standards in the agriculture, animal husbandry and food production sectors. An extensive body of EU-wide law covers the entire food production and processing chain within the EU, as well as imported and exported goods."

Therefore Farms within the EU producing and exporting unsafe, swine fever infected pork is a failure of the EU.

 

[ChopleyIOM]

"Health protection is the aim of all EU laws and standards in the agriculture, animal husbandry and food production sectors. An extensive body of EU-wide law covers the entire food production and processing chain within the EU, as well as imported and exported goods."

Therefore Farms within the EU producing and exporting unsafe, swine fever infected pork is a failure of the EU.

We're talking about criminals who are prepared to send unfit meat products to a country that has advertised the fact it has no border checks, these are not going through official export channels. What do you want the EU to do, deploy crack teams of commandos to check every truck coming across the English Channel on the UK's behalf? The same UK whose government just passed a bill in parliament to break international law over the Northern Ireland Protocol? I bet the EU will be falling over itself to protect our borders for us.

I mean come on mack, you're literally saying there that the EU should be making sure our borders are safe, and if stuff manages to get from an EU country to us that shouldn't, it's the EU's fault. I thought taking back control of our own borders was, y'know, one of Brexit's big selling points.

 

[mack341]

We're talking about criminals who are prepared to send unfit meat products to a country that has advertised the fact it has no border checks, these are not going through official export channels. What do you want the EU to do, deploy crack teams of commandos to check every truck coming across the English Channel on the UK's behalf? The same UK whose government just passed a bill in parliament to break international law over the Northern Ireland Protocol? I bet the EU will be falling over itself to protect our borders for us.

I mean come on mack, you're literally saying there that the EU should be making sure our borders are safe, and if stuff manages to get from an EU country to us that shouldn't, it's the EU's fault. I thought taking back control of our own borders was, y'know, one of Brexit's big selling points.

I want them to enforce their laws, which the member countries paid a small fortune to set up and then on maintaining the infrastructure to do so [And we're still paying into the EU pot in the way of membership exit fees afaik].

So said trucks arrive at one the EU ports, full of contaminated criminal pork, and their officials simply wave it through, no export paperwork required?

How many lorries of infected pork products have we sent them? I'd bet none.