Brexit - whats the difference.....

theresa was a remainer, the civil service bigwigs remainers, so the team was picked from that basis, add a split parliament and hillary benn's interference plus labour boy bercow, then frost inherited the negotiations out of that mess [ labour and remainer mps unable to accept the result ].

I imagine it is no easy task to renegotiate with a big clock ticking. What benefit is there to lay all the blame on frosty? I thought the Ni arrangements sounded like a bad idea at the time, but he was there to represent the british govt, not decide things by himself as a solo maverick.
 
What ticking clock? There was nothing stopping the UK asking for a further extension of the transition period (which would have been granted), and taking as much time as they felt was required for the negotiations.

Besides which both Johnson (and by extension Frost) told us how fantastic their deal was (as per Frost's literal words quoted above) so they don't get to retrospectively decide it's a bit rubbish and blame someone else into the bargain.
 
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  • Mike Galsworthy will be familiar to most people as one of the prolific and obnoxious Remainiacs on
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    , he is effectively a full-time commentator and campaigner and has founded Scientists for EU, Healthier IN the EU, Scientists for Labour and NHS Against Brexit. Literally the last person you would go to if you wanted a balanced and impartial view on Brexit…
 
Must suck to be the guy who negotiated this thing.

'Alexa - show me what an oven-ready deal, a great deal for the UK, looks like please'

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More evidence of the EU trying to meddle where it's not wanted, friction with poland...nation state democracies, seems to me the eu don't really respect their member's sovereignty.

The European Union's top court ruled on Thursday that Poland should suspend a disciplinary chamber for judges it says fails to meet the necessary standards of independence.

A day earlier the Polish Constitutional Tribunal ruled a previous demand for the chamber's suspension ran counter to Poland's constitution and the country should not comply.

On Friday, the first president of Poland's Supreme Court, Malgorzata Manowska, issued a statement in which she said she was "deeply convinced" that the disciplinary chamber was independent.
 
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The UK's draft proposal to replace the NIP appears to be breaking cover, and their big idea seems to be to abolish borders and run the whole thing on an honesty box approach.

No, really.

Brexit always meant a border either in the Irish Sea or between Northern and Southern Ireland, with all the inconvenience and red tape that entails. anyone who ever suggested anything different was a liar.

I mean, just read this shit, it's Withnail & I levels of 'We've signed a legally binding international agreement by mistake'.

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Brexit has happened, move on. UK Govt is looking out for UK interests. That is what sovereign nations do and are expected to do. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK.

If anything the EU over the past year during the pandemic and also since 1st Jan 2020 have shown their true colours, just reaffirming as to why the MAJORITY voted to leave the EU back in 2016.
 
Brexit has happened, move on. UK Govt is looking out for UK interests. That is what sovereign nations do and are expected to do. Northern Ireland is still part of the UK.

Well maybe Johnson, his government and his chief negotiator should have behaved more like that instead of throwing Northern Ireland under the bus with the NIP and agreeing to enshrine in international law a border in the Irish Sea.

'Brexit has happened, move on' doesn't even mean anything, it's not like it was a single moment in time that pivots us from one reality to the next in an instant, the effects of Brexit, and in particular Johnson's godawful 'oven ready' deal are still being felt, which is why it's causing so many problems in the here and now.
 
So for example, Boris Johnson is either knowingly lying here, or he's so stupid and ignorant of the contents of his own deal he doesn't know he's talking shite.

One of those things has to be true.

 
Oh I am no defender of Johnson. However, the one good thing he has done is 'Get Brexit Done'.
 
So if he 'got Brexit done' why is he trying to fundamentally change one of its core components six months after it was all 'done'? Nothing in the NIP has changed, it's exactly the same one he negotiated, agreed to, and signed into law. (Both domestic and international.)
 
So if he 'got Brexit done' why is he trying to fundamentally change one of its core components six months after it was all 'done'? Nothing in the NIP has changed, it's exactly the same one he negotiated, agreed to, and signed into law. (Both domestic and international.)
The reason for trying to fundamentally change it is because the devil is in the detail and the real impact on NI wasnt fully grasped. Several companies have now stopped delivering medical supplies into NI because of the red tape involved, the EU interpretation of the rules mean that a Ham sandwich sent in to NI needs to be accompanied by several vet's certificates.
I know @ChopleyIOM is gloating at this happening, but this is affecting the every day lives of people in NI and it needs to be resolved.
I dont care if theres a border between north and south, its not going to start up a new troubles, that was scaremongering from the EU and the ROI.
I want to be able to go to Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury's and have the same choice as any other UK citizen, I want to pay a fair price for what I purchase, not a price that has been inflated due to burdensome red tape imposed by the EU.
As other posters have pointed out, the last year has shown that the EU in their true colours, a central bureaucracy that wants to control everything in Europe, ask the elected parliaments of Poland and Hungary about that with the EU threatening them with all kinds of sanctions because they dont like the internal laws that they have put in place.
 
So if he 'got Brexit done' why is he trying to fundamentally change one of its core components six months after it was all 'done'? Nothing in the NIP has changed, it's exactly the same one he negotiated, agreed to, and signed into law. (Both domestic and international.)
Yes he has. No longer in the transition period, the UK have left, free to make their own trade deals and laws. EU lost the moral high ground when they threatened to invoke article 16 in an incredible act of hostility last year.

That and their stance over AZ, the current issues surrounding Gibraltar and how they are trying to push around the likes of Poland and Hungary. Not to mention the fact their vaccination program was farcical from the offset.

No thanks to returning to that institution.

As I said in previous post. Brexit has happened, best deal with it the best we can. If that means the likes of Lord Frost moving goal posts to suit the UK which includes NI more favourably, then so be it.
 
The reason for trying to fundamentally change it is because the devil is in the detail and the real impact on NI wasnt fully grasped. Several companies have now stopped delivering medical supplies into NI because of the red tape involved, the EU interpretation of the rules mean that a Ham sandwich sent in to NI needs to be accompanied by several vet's certificates.
I know @ChopleyIOM is gloating at this happening, but this is affecting the every day lives of people in NI and it needs to be resolved.
I dont care if theres a border between north and south, its not going to start up a new troubles, that was scaremongering from the EU and the ROI.
I want to be able to go to Tesco/M&S/Sainsbury's and have the same choice as any other UK citizen, I want to pay a fair price for what I purchase, not a price that has been inflated due to burdensome red tape imposed by the EU.
As other posters have pointed out, the last year has shown that the EU in their true colours, a central bureaucracy that wants to control everything in Europe, ask the elected parliaments of Poland and Hungary about that with the EU threatening them with all kinds of sanctions because they dont like the internal laws that they have put in place.
Sorry cncas I'm not having that. Firstly, I'm not gloating, but I am determined to point out the utter pack of lies and nonsense that Brexit was built on, it gives me no pleasure to see this absolute shitshow unfold. (If you can find a post where I'm actually gloating please point it out to me and I'll apologise for it.)

Secondly, THIS STUFF WAS FULLY GRASPED BY PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTOOOD IT. They were routinely ridiculed, dismissed, labelled as 'Project Fear', condemned as being 'anti-British' and all sorts of other shit, for telling the truth about a situation they had a good understanding of.

The medical supplies issue was explicitly warned about, the rules on food imports that would come into effect were explicitly warned about, they are literally written into the agreement that the UK signed, you can't just hand wave it away as 'EU interpretation'.

Plus you've kind of answered your own question there, as a centralised bureaucracy of course the EU are going to expect the UK to respect the agreement it voluntarily signed of its own accord, no one was holding a gun to our head, instead we had a lying clown at the wheel and unfortunately too many people bought into his bullshit.

The red tape you're complaining about is a direct result of Brexit, the British people voted for it, they got it, the UK government negotiated a withdrawal agreement and that's what we're left with - to even try to blame the EU at this stage of the game is, with the greatest of respect, utterly beyond the pale.

Maybe, and I'll just put this out there. Brexit is the problem. Brexit was a bad idea.

(And finally, you might not care if there's a border between between North and South Ireland again, but an awful lot of people will really, really care, and to simply say 'oh it'll be fine' is exactly the kind of thinking that got Brexit to where it is now.)
 
As I said in previous post. Brexit has happened, best deal with it the best we can. If that means the likes of Lord Frost moving goal posts to suit the UK which includes NI more favourably, then so be it.

You know that breaking a legally binding agreement on the international stage whilst you're trying to negotiate other legally binding agreements on the international stage isn't a great look, right?
 
Sorry cncas I'm not having that. Firstly, I'm not gloating, but I am determined to point out the utter pack of lies and nonsense that Brexit was built on, it gives me no pleasure to see this absolute shitshow unfold. (If you can find a post where I'm actually gloating please point it out to me and I'll apologise for it.)

Secondly, THIS STUFF WAS FULLY GRASPED BY PEOPLE WHO UNDERSTOOOD IT. They were routinely ridiculed, dismissed, labelled as 'Project Fear', condemned as being 'anti-British' and all sorts of other shit, for telling the truth about a situation they had a good understanding of.

The medical supplies issue was explicitly warned about, the rules on food imports that would come into effect were explicitly warned about, they are literally written into the agreement that the UK signed, you can't just hand wave it away as 'EU interpretation'.

Plus you've kind of answered your own question there, as a centralised bureaucracy of course the EU are going to expect the UK to respect the agreement it voluntarily signed of its own accord, no one was holding a gun to our head, instead we had a lying clown at the wheel and unfortunately too many people bought into his bullshit.

The red tape you're complaining about is a direct result of Brexit, the British people voted for it, they got it, the UK government negotiated a withdrawal agreement and that's what we're left with - to even try to blame the EU at this stage of the game is, with the greatest of respect, utterly beyond the pale.

Maybe, and I'll just put this out there. Brexit is the problem. Brexit was a bad idea.

(And finally, you might not care if there's a border between between North and South Ireland again, but an awful lot of people will really, really care, and to simply say 'oh it'll be fine' is exactly the kind of thinking that got Brexit to where it is now.)
No, the red tape is down the intransigence of the EU and the ROI. Why should there be a border between NI and GB when there isnt a border between Cambridge and Oxford? If the EU have concerns about goods entering their single market they should put a border between Newry and Dundalk.
 
No, the red tape is down the intransigence of the EU and the ROI. Why should there be a border between NI and GB when there isnt a border between Cambridge and Oxford? If the EU have concerns about goods entering their single market they should put a border between Newry and Dundalk.

Forgive me for posting this again cncas, but it really does make it as clear as it can possibly be.

Brexit promised something impossible, people decided they wanted the impossible and voted for it. What is happening now is reality is demonstrating that impossible things cannot exist.

Once it was decided that the UK was leaving the Single Market and Customs Union, there was going to be a border either in the Irish Sea or on the island of Ireland itself.

Johnson and his government decided to go for the border in the Irish Sea (whilst lying and say they hadn't), they negotiated a deal based on that plan, and what's what we've ended up with.

Like, there's definitely someone needs the finger pointing at them here, and it ain't the EU......


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Whichever way you slice it the French Government has a direct financial interest in Nissan, which the UK Government has just chucked around half a billion pounds of taxpayers' money at, to mitigate the effects of Brexit.
Hey Chop,

what about the Germans giving Tesla 1.2 BILLION Euros to build their gigafactory in Berlin ????

Obviously the Germans are affected by Brexit too eh ??
 

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Hey Chop,

what about the Germans giving Tesla 1.2 BILLION Euros to build their gigafactory in Berlin ????

Obviously the Germans are affected by Brexit too eh ??
This is where you are going wrong. For a remoaner this is no more than an incentive when its a mainstay of the EU doing it, whereas if its the UK government doing it its just a dirty old bribe...
 
Also Renault are after a 5 Billion euro loan from the French government, which has just been refused until they sort their labour issues out ..

Obviously the French are fucked from Brexit too ????
 
We haven't even been out 7 months yet. They are in punish-mode still rather than pragmatic mode. Yes, they should have put the border on the Ulster/Eire border in the first place but sensitivities prevented it. Now the EU has ensured the built-in farce has actually become just that, more will support the border where it should be. And the republicans can get back to their old activities of smuggling diesel, tobacco, alcohol and moving livestock across the border for both UK and EU subsidies on the same animals. So the complaints there will be more muted than one expects.
 
I think in the main we compromised to keep the delicate political balance/sense of peace going, but from the off the EU just saw it as an opportunity to interfere and carry on imposing their rules on part of the uk.

I find it hard to understand how remainers, who are often of the left persuasion and want the govt to spend more on hospitals, housing etc...are simply able to park the fact we were handing over £10,000,000,000 of uk tax revenue every 12 months. That is a colossal amount of money to blackhole.

A free trade bloc should cost a figure in the millions to run, instead using all that money to generate and impose red tape and endless rules, what a shocking waste for no real benefit or gain over the years.
 

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