Brexit - whats the difference.....

New Casino Brand!

Race Casino Logo
Fast Pay'n Play Casino from L&L Europe..
Race Casino Review

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
That is an interesting juxtaposition to hold alongside strongly supporting the EU, where laws are being made centrally by unelected bureaucrats, even a choice of president isn't given to the people.

I believe the issue the uk govt face is having internal trade between the UK and NI attract tariffs, which is obviously madness, so they want to make sure that cannot happen. That's my understanding, but I could be wrong, hopefully all will be revealed tomorrow.
With respect mack there's a big difference between the history of Ireland (and the UK's terrible behaviour there) and the history of the UK as a member of the EU, at no point were we 'invaded' by the EU and subject to many of the atrocities that were seen in Ireland.

(And indeed, the EU project was in many ways borne out of the horrors of the history of war in Europe, and to avoid ever repeating those horrors. You can argue that it's gone too far in terms of political integration and 'Brussels Overreach', but honestly mack, you can't in good faith seek to find an equivalence between the EU project and the history of Ireland and the UK's role there.)

As for the current UK/NI situation mack, this is literally what Johnson 'negotiated', promoted, fought an election on, claimed a great victory, and now wants to renege on.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


1599635305234.png
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
With respect mack there's a big difference between the history of Ireland (and the UK's terrible behaviour there) and the history of the UK as a member of the EU, at no point were we 'invaded' by the EU and subject to many of the atrocities that were seen in Ireland.

(And indeed, the EU project was in many ways borne out of the horrors of the history of war in Europe, and to avoid ever repeating those horrors. You can argue that it's gone too far in terms of political integration and 'Brussels Overreach', but honestly mack, you can't in good faith seek to find an equivalence between the EU project and the history of Ireland and the UK's role there.)

As for the current UK/NI situation mack, this is literally what Johnson 'negotiated', promoted, fought an election on, claimed a great victory, and now wants to renege on.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


View attachment 141238
I'm scratching my head here thinking 'was I making a point that the EU's history & relationship with the uk has been similar to the one between ireland and the uk ?' ...not sure I was strictly making that point, more that the principle of a 'community/people asserting it's identity' doesn't really sit very well with a EU making decisions/laws centrally and the citizens not having much of a democratic input.

I think the brussel's overreach will continue to increase as each year passes, unless they change fundamentally, the EU objectives and structure are designed to go in that direction. You just need to read
verhofstadt's twitter to see where he wants things to go, an Eu army and central foreign policy plus new taxes, and he is very influential.
 

Slottery

Senior Member
PABnoaccred
MM
Joined
Aug 21, 2017
Location
Malta
Was bored today and read article about that NI idea from Boris gang and i'm happy that i don't have to negotiate with them. It seem to be like trying to make three year old to understand something, not a first time within these negotiations when EU have to mention that "this is agreed long time ago, it's negotiated already, could we move forward?"

I understand that Bojo don't hold really great cards atm, but usually at some point you just have to fold your bad cards and save what you can save. Great PR for UK even to publish these kind of things that "we decided to break this and this, even these were agreed in contract, we decided we don't like them". Wonder who soon wanna make any remarkable deals with party who follow agreements when they feel to and change T&C:s like some rogue casino.

It's hard to admit that you don't walk away as big winner you hoped and have been very noisy about, but that often wisdom to understand that it's just not possible, instead of starting to do some desperate tricks in last minute, bluffing time is unfortunately over from Bojo&co, now just take what you can and be happy to have your power back and blue passports.
 

goatwack

Get dunked, big buns!
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
Kind of impressive really, when claiming to uphold democratic values and principles and shun any talk of a 2nd 'post-fact' Referendum, that Boris is indeed disposing of said steadfast principles at the 11th hour by reneging on key points!

But hey, at least it was a great sound bite, for a while at least
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
The game that Johnson and the government are playing is painfully obvious, i.e. behaving so abominably that the EU could (justifiably) walk away from the talks, but of course then the 'blame' for a No Deal would be on the EU, in their eyes at least.

'Look we wanted a deal! But the rotten EU spoiled it to punish us!'

Unfortunately for them it doesn't seem to be working, the EU side have seen straight through the tactics and are behaving like the grown-ups in the room. At the same time Starmer isn't letting himself be baited by Johnson on Brexit either (as Johnson desperately tried to do at PMQs yesterday).

1599745933505.png

We also need to keep an eye on the USA, as they're very interested in the developing situation with regard to Ireland.

1599745977981.png

As Ian Dunt neatly summarises it. There's a shitstorm coming, and folks are making sure that Johnson and his government will be responsible for it, and have to own it.

1599746033964.png
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
This all seems to be going swimmingly well.

Who'd have thought that a nation state clearly signalling its intention to break international law and violate a binding agreement it'd signed less than a year earlier would have consequences?

I'm sure the German Car Manufacturers will be along shortly to sort everything out for us.

1599754243418.png
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
Repeat after me - it's what we voted for.

It's what we voted for.

It's definitely what we voted for.

Parity with the Euro for the pound a possibility? Ouch.

1599756717204.png
 

ChopleyIOM

Hearthstone Addict
webby
Joined
Mar 25, 2012
Location
IOM
When your country loses any and all moral authority it had on the international stage, in real time, right in front of you.

The costs of Brexit, on a multitude of fronts, are now incalculable.

1599770144008.png
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
Chop you don't think perhaps you're overblowing this withdrawal treaty change a little bit? :)

Why are the EU so upset about us changing something regarding our own kingdom, that we manage the trade ourselves between england, wales, scot and NI.

AFAIK we have not started constructing posts at the border with Ireland, so what changes re the good friday agreement; I can't see what the problem is in reality for the EU, are they worried cheap exports from the uk will slip into europe via ireland [republic] ?

People said at the time boris signed it, having a border in the irish sea was a fudge which didn't make a lot of sense. I suspect the uk govt were hoping a free trade deal would be agreed by now and therefore tariffs would never arise in any event.
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
Even if they gambled on a free trade deal being agreed by now, they lost that gamble.
Doesnt mean they can just back out of whats been promised already.
Or i mean, they can, but it wont look good.
Why would any country want to deal with a country who behaves like that?

Deadpool gets it!

11.gif
 

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
Even if they gambled on a free trade deal being agreed by now, they lost that gamble.
Possibly the reason for that is the EU haven't been 'negotiating in good faith', which is part of the WA. Does 'we won't discuss a free trade deal, until you first agree for us to continue to have unfettered access to your fish' ring any bells?

And the withdrawal agreement had many frowning at the time; I must admit it seems odd and retarded the conservative govt agreed and signed it but now want to legislate to bypass parts of it, I'd like boris to have to answer that. I don't buy the not forseeable bs.
 
Last edited:

mack341

Senior Member
Joined
May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


^ warning big pdf on the withdrawal agreement from brexiteers


"The WA amounts to a ‘poison pill’, leaving the UK subjugated to the EU. There are specific terms in the Northern Ireland Protocol (the Protocol), as well as in other parts of the WA, giving power to the EU and encroaching on UK sovereignty with regard to State aid, EU citizens’ rights, ‘divorce payment’ liabilities, future financial liabilities, EU data protection laws, EU geographical indications of origin, provisions relating to UK sovereign bases in Cyprus and Gibraltar, as well as numerous other matters

– Separately, in the negotiations, the EU is demanding additional sovereignty renunciations with regard to fishing rights and demands for a ‘level playing field’

– The Political Declaration (PD) invites the UK to participate in various defence and industry schemes that would undercut our future independence and freedom of manoeuvre "


---------

No wonder the EU leaders were ecstatic and all smiles when bojo agreed it.
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
You know i aint reading that pdf. (my attention span wont allow me to)
If he had no intention to honor the deal, he probably shouldnt have signed it in the first place.
I dont think breaking international law to bypass it is the best solution.

Even Pikachu gets it, and english is not his first language.

ffddf.gif
 

Mr_Slot5

Experienced Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
You know i aint reading that pdf. (my attention span wont allow me to)
If he had no intention to honor the deal, he probably shouldnt have signed it in the first place.
I dont think breaking international law to bypass it is the best solution.

Even Pikachu gets it, and english is not his first language.

View attachment 141359
But if he didn't sign it, we'd have been left in the same quandary as we were, with the opposition acting in such a way that parliament was paralysed.

Can you not see, anyone who was not pro Brexit was deliberately trying to bring the whole thing down. Ally that to the stance of the EU and we have been backed completely into a corner. It has essentially been ''remain in the 'club' or else''

Can you also see that this side of the EU is not very pretty at all. You can certainly see the aspiration to become an empire by hook or by crook. Fair play if you want to be part of that, but vast swathes of the UK want no part in it.
 

Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
MM
Joined
Mar 2, 2019
Location
sweden
But if he didn't sign it, we'd have been left in the same quandary as we were, with the opposition acting in such a way that parliament was paralysed.

Can you not see, anyone who was not pro Brexit was deliberately trying to bring the whole thing down. Ally that to the stance of the EU and we have been backed completely into a corner. It has essentially been ''remain in the 'club' or else''

Can you also see that this side of the EU is not very pretty at all. You can certainly see the aspiration to become an empire by hook or by crook. Fair play if you want to be part of that, but vast swathes of the UK want no part in it.
So he was forced to sign the deal to get out of the club?
But now he realized the deal he signed didnt really let him out of the club as much as he would have liked.
Seems to me he never had any intention whatsoever to honor the deal.
No way they didnt know about the things brought up now back then.
 

Mr_Slot5

Experienced Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Location
Cheshire
So he was forced to sign the deal to get out of the club?
But now he realized the deal he signed didnt really let him out of the club as much as he would have liked.
Seems to me he never had any intention whatsoever to honor the deal.
No way they didnt know about the things brought up now back then.
Of course they knew. That's pretty much a given.

What I'm saying is that they literally had no choice at the time...politically we were in a quandary here. Parliament was useless because nothing could pass. Whilst we were in this position, other areas of governance were being neglected by default. Boris didn't have the numbers to push anything through. Therefore he needed a big majority. He got it...but he wouldn't have done unless the deal was signed. His whole campaign was based on 'get Brexit done'.

The people then voted him in to get Brexit done- but he could only do this with his majority in parliament.

At the time it was a catch 22 so it really was the only way to get any progress at all.
 

Users Who Are Viewing This Thread (Users: 0, Guests: 4)

Top