Brexit - whats the difference.....

[QUOTE="ChopleyIOM, post: 1163575,
What you can see, very clearly, is that Brexit is nothing but bad news for the British car industry. (Honda made submissions to a Commons Select Committee along these lines three years ago.)
[/QUOTE]

Honda UK have been in the shit for years , absolutely nothing to do with brexit.

They were moaning back in 2014 that they weren’t selling many cars and their Swindon plant would be in trouble. The Brexit vote was years later.

Just another company using brexit as an excuse for poor management , poor product, and poor sales.

I don’t know anybody that would rather buy a Honda than most other makes of car, hence they don’t sell many.

It’s just like Jamie Oliver closing his Italian restaurants, blaming everything and everyone else , apart from its shitty overpriced food.
 
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I found the news report from 2014 , Honda sold most of their cars outside the UK, in the Eurozone.

They blamed their poor sales on the beleaguered state of the European economy.
 
How do we even get from a warning from Jaguar/Land Rover about the impact of different Brexit scenarios to you not knowing anyone who'd buy a Honda?

(They're about fifth or sixth in the world, by the way.)

Also, here's the written submission they made, specifically about single market access.

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Still, I'm sure it's all just Project Fear, same as everything else, and same as we'll be signing all those great trade deals very shortly.
 
How do we even get from a warning from Jaguar/Land Rover about the impact of different Brexit scenarios to you not knowing anyone who'd buy a Honda?

(They're about fifth or sixth in the world, by the way.)

Also, here's the written submission they made, specifically about single market access.

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Still, I'm sure it's all just Project Fear, same as everything else, and same as we'll be signing all those great trade deals very shortly.

I think Spikie has some valid points. There are Companies that will jump on the blame Brexit bandwagon as an excuse for their own piss poor performance.

Take the Company that I work for..... not doing as great as we used to but this is simply down to poor leadership and vision. OK, they didn't blame Brexit unlike the Honda example mentioned by Spikie.

The same, to a degree, applies to the handling of Covid by the Government. Companies have folded, but with some of them it was only a matter of time.
 
Don’t extend a thing. NO DEAL all the way.

Sounds like you've thought it all through. What are your plans to maintain 'just-in-time' supply chains, upon which many UK industries depend (and by extension many thousands of UK jobs), in the aftermath of a No Deal Brexit and whilst the entire continent is still in the grip of Covid-19?

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Even with a deal, leaving the single market at the end of the year will be extremely disruptive – not only from 2 January (1 January being a bank holiday) but for years to come. But leaving without a deal? As Nick Bosanquet, professor of health policy at Imperial College, London, recently
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, the conjuncture of port delays with the virus and long waits in laybys for thousands of lorry drivers, probably in bad weather, “would be a classic situation for super-spreading of the virus”, and that “drivers would have to present recent test results in order to cross”.

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One cannot help but note the understandable calls for the government to have a recovery plan from the economic horrors of the lockdown and its awful impact on employment. However, what people should realise is that, in going ahead with Brexit, the government has already decided on a plan. Unfortunately, it is to make the economic crisis even worse.


Going ahead with Brexit in a time of plague is the height of irresponsibility. It must never be forgotten that the infamous 2016 referendum was advisory, not binding, and fought on a false prospectus.
 
I wonder if Johnson will make the concessions necessary for an EU deal now that Biden is going to be in the White House?

Biden is proud of his Irish heritage and has explicitly warned there'll be no US trade deal if the Good Friday Agreement is imperilled.

Also Johnson has often been framed as 'Europe's Trump', and that's a brand that's in something of a state of decline....

Two dreadful mistakes were made in 2016. The first was Trump becoming president. The second was Brexit.

At least the former has been rectified.

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I wonder if Johnson will make the concessions necessary for an EU deal now that Biden is going to be in the White House?

Biden is proud of his Irish heritage and has explicitly warned there'll be no US trade deal if the Good Friday Agreement is imperilled.

Also Johnson has often been framed as 'Europe's Trump', and that's a brand that's in something of a state of decline....

Two dreadful mistakes were made in 2016. The first was Trump becoming president. The second was Brexit.

At least the former has been rectified.

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If you can call 2 democratic polls in 2016 'mistakes'!! That's what Hitler thought when he didn't win his first elections outright.
So we are going to have another Clintonesque 'Irish' roots thing going on are we? On the grounds his great aunt once played bingo in Dublin or something? Trump is half Scottish, they voted to remain but he didn't champion their whingeing about Brexit, did he?
 
Of course I can call them mistakes, one can accept the result of a democratic process whilst also believing that the outcome is a terrible mistake.

As for Biden's Irish roots, they're pretty solid -
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Of course I can call them mistakes, one can accept the result of a democratic process whilst also believing that the outcome is a terrible mistake.

As for Biden's Irish roots, they're pretty solid -
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Well 70% of the USA population will have claim to 'roots' in some European country or other, so what's the point here? He has been elected to run the USA not Eire or Great Britain. Or are you suggesting he's not a a true patriotic American and his loyalties lie elsewhere?
 
Well 70% of the USA population will have claim to 'roots' in some European country or other, so what's the point here? He has been elected to run the USA not Eire or Great Britain. Or are you suggesting he's not a a true patriotic American and his loyalties lie elsewhere?

Give him some slack..... it is only 1832 we're going back to!
 
Well 70% of the USA population will have claim to 'roots' in some European country or other, so what's the point here? He has been elected to run the USA not Eire or Great Britain. Or are you suggesting he's not a a true patriotic American and his loyalties lie elsewhere?

I have no doubt Biden is a patriotic American - but he's also made his feelings about Brexit (he thinks it's a stupid act of national self-harm) and The Good Friday Agreement (he'll fall out with us very quickly if we break it) perfectly clear.

So whilst he's only directly responsible for being president of the USA, he will still have influence over matters that directly affect the UK and Ireland.

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Guess it's fair to say that US have some influence for most of the globe so kind of more or less relevant in every thread. Don't think it's huge different for Brexit who ever would be boss in the white house.
 
Former Conservative Prime Minister John Major's speech about Brexit last night.

Not that long ago this would have been PROJECT FEAR REMOANER SORE LOSER stuff.

Now of course, as we lumber towards the end of the transition period, with the best case scenario a 'skinny' deal, and still the risk of no deal at all - it's simply reality.

It's hard to take issue with anything he says.

-------------------------------------

BREAKING. Sir John Major: "Complacency and nostalgia are the route to national decline"

"We are no longer a great power. We will never be so again. In a world of nearly 8 billion people, well under 1% are British"

"We are a top second-rank power"

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2) John Major: "Our hefty international influence rested on our history and reputation, buttressed by our membership of the EU and our close alliance with the US.
Suddenly, we are no longer an irreplaceable bridge between Europe and America. We are now less relevant to them both"

3) Sir John: "I do find it surprising that – in the midst of the Covid crisis – the Government appears to be fostering disputes with the Judiciary [...]; the Civil Service, upon whose help the Government depends; and the BBC, still the most respected broadcaster on the planet"

4) Sir John: "
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divided England & Wales from Scotland and Northern Ireland. It divided political parties and families; the young and their elders; business and trade unions; and friend from friend. As its full impact becomes apparent in the New Year, old wounds may re-open"

5) John Major: "There is no consensus on
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, and never has been. It was a bitterly divisive policy, and uncorked a populism that may be difficult to quell.

The Referendum debate was unlike any I have known before. Emotion overcame reality".

6) Sir John on
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:

"Fiction defeated fact and fostered a belief in a past that never was – whilst boosting enthusiasm for a future that may never be.".

"If that mode of politics takes root, it will kill all respect in our system of government".

7) Sir John: "In the
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Referendum, Britons voted to leave EU. I have never hidden my view, nor have I changed it. To my mind – and I am no starry-eyed European – Brexit is the worst foreign policy decision in my lifetime.

"Brexit was sold to our electors on false premises"

8) Sir John Major: "Free speech for those who supported remaining in the EU came at a price. They were pilloried as “Remoaners”. Judges were denounced as “Enemies of the People”. Opponents of Brexit were cowed. It was shameful. No democracy should find itself in such a position"

9) Sir John Major:

"
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was sold to the nation as a win-win situation. It is not".

"We were promised we would stay in the Single Market. We have not".

"We were told trade with the EU would be frictionless. It will not be".

10) John Major: "We were promised we would save billions in payments to the European Union: a bus was driven around the country telling us so. Not so:
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is costing billions – not saving them".

11) Sir John Major: "More recently – and for the first time in our long history – Ministers have proposed legislation giving them powers to break the law. This is a slippery slope down which no democratic Government should ever travel"
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12) Sir John Major:

"It was claimed,
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wouldn’t increase support for Scottish independence or a united Ireland. It has".

13) Sir John Major: "It defies logic that intelligent men and women making such extravagant promises did not know they were undeliverable – and yet they continued to make them.

"It was politics. It was campaigning. It was for a cause".

"It was also unforgivable"

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14) Sir John Major: "If that is how we [Britain] are going to conduct our public affairs, then not only will our politics truly fall into a bad place, but our word as a nation will no longer be trusted"
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15) Sir John Major:

"Trade has always been the life-blood of our prosperity.
We were promised a comprehensive trade deal with the EU. We were told this would be “the easiest deal in history” because “we hold all the cards”. Apparently not"
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16) Sir John Major:

"As the politics changed, the promises were ditched".

"We can now look forward to a flimsy, barebones
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deal – or no deal at all".

"This is a wretched betrayal of what our electors were led to believe"

17) Sir John Major:

"
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is no friend of free trade with Europe".

"It may set up new tariff barriers [and other consequences]. These costs and complexities are the certain legacy of Brexit".

"This is as a result of our negotiating failure – and it is a failure."

18) Sir John: "There is no Australia deal. It is a fantasy: a euphemism for No Deal at all – and the Government should say so."

"It is time to stop putting Ministers on the media who speak to a pre-prepared script and parrot misleading or pointless slogans."

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19) Sir John: "It is important we negotiate a more comprehensive relationship with the EU"

"We should recognise that the EU nations are bound with ourselves in ties of common interest, history and future destiny"

"To ignore this would be a dereliction of our national interests"

20) Sir John Major on the Scottish referendum:

"The Westminster Government could agree for an Independence Referendum to take place, on the basis of two referenda. The first to vote upon the principle of negotiations, and the second upon the outcome of them".

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21) Sir John Major on
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: "The purpose of the second referendum would be that Scottish electors would know what they were voting for, and be able to compare it to what they now have. This did not happen with Brexit: had it done so, there may have been no
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"

22) Sir John on an
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border poll: "The time for a poll is not yet come. But it will. And if – when it does – the Northern Irish vote for unification, then those who ignored the warnings that
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posed will have to answer for the dismantling of a further part of the UK"

23) Sir John: "[The Internal Market Bill] is unprecedented in all our history – for good reason. It has damaged our reputation around the world"

"Lawyers everywhere are incredulous that the UK – "the cradle of the Rule of Law" – could give themselves the power to break the law"

24) Sir John Major:

"It is essential we remain a United Kingdom – and reinforce the values that have built our reputation".

"If we cannot again be a great power, we can be a great example".

"If we cannot compel, we can influence".

25) Sir John: "We can be “Global Britain” [...] but we must reject the narrow nationalism that some have imported into our politics.
We must put aside the notion of “British exceptionalism”: it is a fantasy baked into the minds of those who do not know how the world has changed"

26) Sir John Major:

"But – we can be exceptional".

"All this – and more – can be achieved".

"We like to think of ourselves as the land of hope and glory. “Hope” is essential – most especially during the darkest of times".

"But I am ambivalent about the “glory”".

27) Sir John Major: "I will settle for a land that is united and prosperous; which rises above challenges – as it has done so often in the past; whose word is trusted both near and far; and whose people are seen to be decent, fair and compassionate to all"
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28) Sir John Major:

"In every corner of our United Kingdom that remains the instinctive heartbeat".

"And it is one which I hope will always prevail".

"Thank you."

(excepts from a speech delivered by John Major on Nov 9 2020 at Middle Temple)

THREAD ENDS
 
I'm convinced, and am now a convert to the Brexit cause, your nuanced, balanced, and thoroughly well-researched, evidence-led arguments have persuaded me that a former Prime Minister of the UK doesn't have a bloody clue what he's talking about.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE, NO DEAL, MAKE BRITAIN GREAT AGAIN, TAKE BACK CONTROL. WOOHOO!
 
I'm convinced, and am now a convert to the Brexit cause, your nuanced, balanced, and thoroughly well-researched, evidence-led arguments have persuaded me that a former Prime Minister of the UK doesn't have a bloody clue what he's talking about.

LEAVE MEANS LEAVE, NO DEAL, MAKE BRITAIN GREAT AGAIN, TAKE BACK CONTROL. WOOHOO!
Fair play, he was a fucking shit PM anyway....
 
Of course I can call them mistakes, one can accept the result of a democratic process whilst also believing that the outcome is a terrible mistake.

As for Biden's Irish roots, they're pretty solid -
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So his great-great grandfather. That makes him 1/16 or 6% 'Irish'. Therefore we can safely assume that some of those other 15x 6%'s will be Scottish, English, German possibly and numerous other nations. In fact, another of his 'great-greats' hailed from Huntingdonshire (gave the name 'Biden' too!) so he is at least as English and highly likely far more English than he is Irish. Funny how these tenuous links become highly focussed upon when it's convenient! Reminds me of what the press called 'the Plastic Paddies' of the 1980's 'Ireland' soccer team when nearly all of them were more English than Irish, most born here.

If you go back further, remember Ireland has only been out of foreign occupation for less than 100 years, the Vikings for centuries up until the Normans from England in 1171, then the Scots had a go at colonizing Ireland with Edward the Bruce in 1315 before in the 1530's Henry VIII and the Tudors imposed Protestant systems like the Plantation of Ulster. Then you had Cromwell who invaded Ireland in 1649 with his New Model Army, hoping to seize Ireland from the ruling Irish Catholic Confederation. The drop in the Irish population resulting from Cromwell’s genocidal campaign sometimes ranges as high as 50%. The Parliamentarians also deported about 50,000 people as indentured labourers to the Caribbean.

So the 'original' Irish population has very little presence now, the same as the original Celtic population of England, Wales and Scotland which was mainly supplanted by Vikings/Saxons between 600 and 1066 and then the Norsemen conquest of that latter year.

So talking about 'roots' is highly subjective. Technically Biden's great-great-grandfather came from Britain anyway, as Ireland at that time was part of the UK in reality - he just (geographically) came from the Irish part.

Seems Biden can even out-bullshit Trump - possibly why he won.
 
Well you've kind of made my point for me there dunover, i.e. We all know full well why people with Irish roots will often identify very strongly with them. (I'm of Irish heritage myself but TBH I'm not fussed about it, although I know others feel differently, I was cross when the IRA blew up one of me and Mrs Chopley's favourite pubs in Manchester in the 1996 bombing though. A very well maintained ST:TNG pinball was lost that day.)

The history of Ireland is one of subjugation, oppression, avoidable famine, British brutality etc.

Leading on from that, it also explains why there's a lot of emotion around Britain doing shady shit that has the potentially to negatively impact Ireland, and by extension the peace, and the Good Friday Agreement.

But hey, you know all that already :)
 
Well you've kind of made my point for me there dunover, i.e. We all know full well why people with Irish roots will often identify very strongly with them. (I'm of Irish heritage myself but TBH I'm not fussed about it, although I know others feel differently, I was cross when the IRA blew up one of me and Mrs Chopley's favourite pubs in Manchester in the 1996 bombing though. A very well maintained ST:TNG pinball was lost that day.)

The history of Ireland is one of subjugation, oppression, avoidable famine, British brutality etc.

Leading on from that, it also explains why there's a lot of emotion around Britain doing shady shit that has the potentially to negatively impact Ireland, and by extension the peace, and the Good Friday Agreement.

But hey, you know all that already :)

LieBore admit they should 'apologize for Brexit stance' :

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So I see Cummings will be gone before Christmas. I wonder if anything is happening on January 1st that is influencing that decision.

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Felixstowe port is in a state of chaos, and turning Kent into a lorry park hasn't been going well.

Fortunately there's nothing happening in six weeks that could turn this into a serious problem.

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