Brandy denies my 20k Royal

[backjlack]

I hit the Holy Grail of videopoker at Brandy casino yesterday.


I posted my beautiful screenshot in the 'Winner Screenshots' thread.

MODERATOR NOTE: Thread title changed on request. This has now become a complaint. Fast forward in thread ....

 

[frufrugirl]

*************************congrats!!!!!********************


:notworthy

 

[chuchu59]

Whew! At least I know Brandy does pay although it's gonna be four or five days before you get it. A royal congratulations to you.

 

[CasinoForumu]

congratulations

 

[Vesuvio]

I hit the Holy Grail of videopoker at Brandy casino yesterday.


I posted my beautiful screenshot in the 'Winner Screenshots' thread.

Congratulations, but was it really necessary to start a separate thread for this after posting in "Winner Screenshots"?

If I was a cynic (), I'd be highly sceptical of someone posting about Brandy casino, given their practice of paying for votes and posts at forums, and that most winners aren't so keen to emphasise where they won.

 

[Simmo!]

If I was a cynic (),...

LOL. Hey Vesuvio, where's that pic in your Avatar?

 

[Vesuvio]

LOL. Hey Vesuvio, where's that pic in your Avatar?

Vesuvio

= Vesuvius (of Pompeii fame) with the bay of Naples in the foreground. I was visiting there a lot when I chose the name, but it's also the name of a blue soft-toy rabbit... I think I'll spare you the details

 

[hbears341]

Congratulations - Absolutely awesome!! :notworthy

 

[backjlack]

Brandy is refusing to pay me!

Vesuvio, I opened a seperate thread because I was so happy and I felt like sharing my joy.

But my joy is gone now, because I just learned that Brandy is refusing to pay me!



They have this promotion this month called 'Test Drive x 10' where you send them 20$ through a web form and they open you an account (seperate from your main one) with 200$ in it. The catch is that you must reach a 19000$ balance before you can cash out. They also offer '2/20/reach 2000' and '200/2000/reach 180k' accounts.

From reading the terms, there was no doubt in my mind that this was available on more than one deposit. So I did make a 20$ deposit, got a 200$ account, lost, did it again, many times (25, I believe), until I hit the Royal Flush. After hitting the Royal Flush I emailed them, asking them to cashout my winnings (the cashier module is not available in those special accounts).

According to the rules of the promotion, I was supposed to be paid in 24 hours so, today, not having received my winnings, I emailed to inquire about my payment and the answer I just received is that they are not going to pay me because I broke the rules of the promotion by having multiple bonus accounts. They say that the rules state that only one account of each type is allowed per customer, which is not true. The rules don't say anything explicit like that at all.

Here are the rules :

Dear xxxxxxxx,

Have you ever dreamed of getting thrilled having bet the minimum at a casino?! Now gambling is 10 times more thrilling!

August 28, we are launching new promo "Test Drive x10". Having paid $2, $20 or $200, you will be given access to the special "TD"* bonus account with $20, $200 or $2000 opening balance respectively!!!

"Test Drive x10" promo rules:

1. Having made $2 payment** at Brandy Casino Gabling Network Cashier, the promo participant will be given access to "2TD" account with $20 opening balance. Having made $20 payment** at Brandy Casino Gabling Network Cashier, the promo participant will be given access to "20TD" account with $200 opening balance. Having made $200 payment** at Brandy Casino Gabling Network Cashier, the promo participant will be given access to "200TD" account with $2,000 opening balance.

2. Promo participants are welcome to play any games except for Live Dealer*** and Progressive Jackpot**** games.

3. To withdraw money participants should have a definite amount at "TD" accounts. To withdraw money from "2TD" account, a participant should have not less than $2,000 at it. To withdraw money from "20TD" account, a participant should have not less than $19,000 at it. To withdraw money from "200TD" account, a participant should have not less than $180,000 at it.

4. The opening balance amount***** of the "TD" account will be deducted from your withdrawal request.

5. The withdrawals are processed within 24 hours.

6. "TD" account will be closed at zero balance, if the promo rules are violated, or after any withdrawal of winnings.


To participate in "Test Drive x10" promo:

1. The player wishing to participate in the promo shall send an application to help@brandycasino.com.

The text of application:

"I wish to participate in "Test Drive x10" promo. Once the account is accessed I promise not to play Live Dealer and Progressive Jackpot games. I have read and accept the show participation rules. "

2. Make $2, $20 or $200 payment to the Brandy account using Brandy Casino Gabling Network Cashier. Follow these steps:

Click on Brandy Casino Gambling Network Cashier: Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) .

Choose a payment method and enter the information required.

In the field "Username (XPS)": enter you Brandy Casino Username (BCRxxxxxxxx).

3. Within 20-25 min after settling the bill, your request will be processed and the new "TD" account number with the $20, $200 or $2,000 opening balance***** respectively, and an access password will be sent to the e-mail, indicated by you during registration at Brandy Casino real money account.

Brandy Casino mails good news only!

Should you have any questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to contact us at: help@brandycasino.com.


Sincerely yours,

Lisa Evans
Brandy Casino Manager

Brandy Casino - CasiNo1

* "2TD" = account with $20 opening balance, "20TD" = account with $200 opening balance, "200TD" account with $2000 opening balance.

** The payment is not a deposit. The payment is the charge for "Test Drive x10" promo participation.

*** Live Roulette, Live Baccarat, Live Blackjack, Live Sic Bo.

**** Caribbean Poker, Cinerama, Diamond Valley, Fruit Mania, Gold Rally, MagicSlots, MegaJacks, Safecracker, Wallstreet Fever, Queen of Pyramids, MegaBall, Jackpot Jacks or better 10, Jackpot Darts, Jackpot Genie's Hi-Lo, Progressive Blackjack, Dollar Ball, Sunny slots, Bounty Hunter.

***** All the opening balance amount is bonus money.

Not only is there no clear mention that only one bonus of each kind is allowed, but here is was they emailed me in answer to my sending the second 20$ deposit :

Dear xxxxx,

Thank you for taking part in Brandy Casinos promos!

Hereby we would like to inform you that according to Brandy Casinos regulations, every Test Drive deposit is added into a new account. Therefore, your latest $20 deposit has been transferred from former TD00008 to new TD32825 (password xxxxxx).

A relevant bonus has also been added to the new account.

Whenever you decide to make a new deposit for Test Drive promo, you will be informed of a new account number as soon as possible.

We apologize for any inconveniences that may have occurred.

Best regards,

Victoria
Brandy Casino Support

This shows that they were perfectly aware that they were creating multiple accounts. For me, it was a clear confirmation that they were welcoming more deposits. The emails containing each new account's username and password were signed by a number of different people, and they all took a different time to arrive so they weren't automatic emails, they were manually processed.

Brandy was willingly running this promo as repeatable apparently until they realized that it was getting out of hand (perhaps there were

other big winners, perhaps even a 180k winner) and they decided to back off.


Brandy has willingly accepted to open these account for me. All the time I was playing, every sign convinced me that I was doing exactly what was intended by this promotion. And now, they pay back my 500$ in deposits and act like this is the end of it.

 

[frufrugirl]

************oooops...so sorry for your troubles...best wishes

 

[nafanny29]

You just knew something was going to go wrong, well i did anyway!!

I could count the number of casinos that I would be 100% certain to get paid for a $20000 win without any BS, on my fingers and toes, and Brandy would certainly not be one of them.

If you are within the T&Cs to use this promo as many times as you like then they do need to pay you.

Yet another reminder to us all that its essential to stick to casinos who's reputation is beyond doubt.

 

[nafanny29]

And now, they pay back my 500$ in deposits and act like this is the end of it.

That is a very bad sign BTW.

 

[awstick]

I read through those terms and didn't see any mention that they specifically would allow multiple deposits, and I probably would have contacted them to be sure it was allowed before doing it. Clearly they should not have kept letting you make accounts, but I doubt they intended for this to be used multiple times per offer. I have no idea why they would even offer it once, since surely everyone who made accounts would know they need to get to 100x their balance to cash out and would play accordingly aggressive. There would need to be more than 1000 players for every one winner, and there were probably a much higher percentage of winners than that. It sucks, but I doubt you will see anything but your original deposits back.

 

[Vesuvio]

Really sorry to hear that, Backjlack. At least you can see now why I was suspicious of anything to do with Brandy...

Anyway, you have to fight them on this, and there must be a chance of success, as unless there are terms other than the ones in their e-mail they haven't got a case.

Whenever you decide to make a new deposit for Test Drive promo, you will be informed of a new account number as soon as possible.

This is acknowledging you have more than one of these special accounts as well as encouraging you to have more.

p.s. I checked out their weird "forum" and here they respond to someone who also took up the promo more than once -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I don't understand what rules they're quoting here, though, as the only promo rules seem to be the ones posted at the forum which don't mention how many times you can try it. For curiosity's sake here's someone asking the same thing, and getting the same response (in Russian):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It's obviously not clearly stated (or stated at all) that you can't do what you did.

 

[Simmo!]

While an experienced player would probably know that most bonus promos can only be claimed once, this kind of crap is exactly what keeps putting back the industry and why it just keeps shooting itself in the foot time after time. Even if there were other terms about not claiming the promo more than once, they should have been clearly stated in the promo offer.

Every casino suffers because of stunts like this, not just this one (as do all bonus players because of some bonus abusers who have made these offers so crap in the first place) Grrr It's about time some of these software providers stepped up to the plate as things like this reflect badly on them and their other licencees.

 

[backjlack]

Even if there were other terms about not claiming the promo more than once, they should have been clearly stated in the promo offer.

There were no other terms.
The lenght of the terms I quoted above show that they are complete.
Also, there were no links to anything else.

And it's not like I was trying to find the tinniest crack in their terms and interpret to suit my desire. As I said, from the start I was under the impression that this was applicable to multiple deposits and then this was confirmed into a certainty in the email they sent me after I opened a second account, which I'll briefly quote again :

Whenever you decide to make a new deposit for Test Drive promo, you will be informed of a new account number as soon as possible.

 

[Simmo!]

As I said, from the start I was under the impression that this was applicable to multiple deposits and then this was confirmed into a certainty in the email they sent me after I opened a second account, which I'll briefly quote again :

Totally agree

 

[uungy]

Agree with you backjlack. They have the ability easily to limit the bonuses if they wanted to, makes no sense to say they couldn't!

You don't have to "imagine" that the standard rules are accepted, as these are very non-standard rules, that you have to have 19K to withdraw, and I bet they didn't believe anyone would get it!

Keep fighting!

 

[HateMG]

p.s. I checked out their weird "forum" and here they respond to someone who also took up the promo more than once -

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

I don't understand what rules they're quoting here, though, as the only promo rules seem to be the ones posted at the forum which don't mention how many times you can try it. For curiosity's sake here's someone asking the same thing, and getting the same response (in Russian):

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

It's obviously not clearly stated (or stated at all) that you can't do what you did.

Let me translate you some quotes from russian forum:


Somebody asked:
Quote:И второй вопрос, есть ли временное ограничения на Test Drive?
Я имею в виду, не получится, так что игрок будет играть на нем 2-3 недели, наберёт нужную сумму для снятия, захочет снять, а тут окажется, что Test Drive даётся на 24 часа, и в оплате будет отказано.

Translation: And the second question. Is there any time limit for Test Drive?
I mean If a player plays on it for 2-3 weeks and get the nessesary amount for withdrawal but let say it turns out the Test drive is only given for 24 hours and he'll be denied his winning.

Brandy's answer:
Временных ограничений нет.

Translation: There is no time limit.



Another question :
Quote:И последние, сколько раз можно участвовать в этой акции?

Translation: And lastly, how many times can someone participate in this action?

Brandy's answer:

В рамках акции Test Drive x10 Вы можете открыть только один счет TD2, один счет TD20 и один счет TD200.

Translation: In scope of Test Drive x10 you can open only one TD2 account, one TD20 account and one TD200 account.

 

[uungy]

Its not in the Terms and Conditions, so my personal opion is its invalid T&C's, unless you have asked personally and answered you personally. Obviously its best to ask, but easy to say that afterwards.

I don't see any reason, why logically they can refuse to pay this

 

[backjlack]

About the quotes from Brandy's forum.

Concerning the quotes from Brandy's forum, both in original english and translated from russian, I would like to underline one thing :

Both these questions and answers are dated from Sept.5, which is THE DAY AFTER I hit my Royal Flush and emailed them to cash it out.

This in no way infirms the 'scenario' according to which they were letting people open multiple account until a big win woke them up and prompted a switch to 'damage control' mode.

One could even imagine that these questions and answers were planted there by Brandy, but of course this is pure (very far-fetched) speculation.

 

[Vesuvio]

Let me translate you some quotes from russian forum:

I might have been unclear, but I read and understood the Russian My point was that if people were asking the question on the forum, or making the same "mistake", it's obvious that the terms weren't clear. And anyone reading the terms can clearly see there's nothing there about not taking up this offer as many times as you like.

As backjlack says, a post on a forum two days ago doesn't alter the rules for players who played before then. It's also doubtful it alters them for players playing afterwards, though if this is only advertised on the forum and not through e-mail (a weird way to conduct your affairs!), perhaps it does.

*perhaps you weren't trying to make a point about the rules & were just providing a translation for others - in which case, apologies & thanks!

 

[chuchu59]

Vesuvio, I opened a seperate thread because I was so happy and I felt like sharing my joy.

But my joy is gone now, because I just learned that Brandy is refusing to pay me!



They have this promotion this month called 'Test Drive x 10' where you send them 20$ through a web form and they open you an account (seperate from your main one) with 200$ in it. The catch is that you must reach a 19000$ balance before you can cash out. They also offer '2/20/reach 2000' and '200/2000/reach 180k' accounts.

From reading the terms, there was no doubt in my mind that this was available on more than one deposit. So I did make a 20$ deposit, got a 200$ account, lost, did it again, many times (25, I believe), until I hit the Royal Flush. After hitting the Royal Flush I emailed them, asking them to cashout my winnings (the cashier module is not available in those special accounts).

According to the rules of the promotion, I was supposed to be paid in 24 hours so, today, not having received my winnings, I emailed to inquire about my payment and the answer I just received is that they are not going to pay me because I broke the rules of the promotion by having multiple bonus accounts. They say that the rules state that only one account of each type is allowed per customer, which is not true. The rules don't say anything explicit like that at all.

Here are the rules :




Not only is there no clear mention that only one bonus of each kind is allowed, but here is was they emailed me in answer to my sending the second 20$ deposit :





This shows that they were perfectly aware that they were creating multiple accounts. For me, it was a clear confirmation that they were welcoming more deposits. The emails containing each new account's username and password were signed by a number of different people, and they all took a different time to arrive so they weren't automatic emails, they were manually processed.

Brandy was willingly running this promo as repeatable apparently until they realized that it was getting out of hand (perhaps there were

other big winners, perhaps even a 180k winner) and they decided to back off.


Brandy has willingly accepted to open these account for me. All the time I was playing, every sign convinced me that I was doing exactly what was intended by this promotion. And now, they pay back my 500$ in deposits and act like this is the end of it.

Well, either you have e-mailed to them for the promo 25 times or they credited $2000 to accounts in your name 25 times. Whichever is true, the casino must have known and were willing to let you use the promo over and over so they must abide by their promise and pay the winnings.

What a stupid quote "Brandy mails good news only". If so, send this player a mail congratulating him on his RF win and that he will be paid within 24 hours and then spread the news (especially OGF). That will really be mailing good news only.

 

[bpb]

Well, either you have e-mailed to them for the promo 25 times or they credited $2000 to accounts in your name 25 times. Whichever is true, the casino must have known and were willing to let you use the promo over and over so they must abide by their promise and pay the winnings.

Casinos freeroll against their players all the time, and the precident has been set that this is acceptable.

Players who are over 18, but under 21 have had winnings confiscated at Grand Prive and Casino Extreme. Past deposits were accepted and small cashouts had even been paid. But once a large win was made, the casino decided to invoke the "must be of legal gambling age in your state" clause. They could easily have checked on this when the players signed up, but instead waited until the player tried to make a substantial cash out.

If you try to claim a bonus in the group that rhymes with Boloplex, when you have a locked account somewhere else in their group, they'll happily accept your deposit and hope you lose it. If you try to cashout, only then do they inform you that your winnings are void. They could easily do a check on signup, but that would be less profitable.


I personally think that if a casino denies payment based on information that they had prior to accepting the players wagers, then that casino should be immediately rogued. The correct action is to deny the wager before it takes place. However, the two aforementioned cases clearly show that this isn't the general consensus here.

 

[hbears341]

This is complete BS and you should be awarded your winnings.

Good Luck!