Brandon Walsh vs Curacao egaming

sufferinsilence

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Dec 13, 2017
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Belgium
I'm not an expert on the subject, but presumed that the master licencees are paying the government something, even if it's just tax on their profits/business rates; it's up to the curacao govt to regulate what goes on in the island's name, it's not difficult but obviously most of the casinos would probably up and leave.

However maybe it's too dangerous for any politician to seriously want to change the system, their life would be at risk?

I think the dutch could easily sort it out if they wanted to I'm sure, just in the name of fighting corruption, make the system the same as a low cost version of the MGA...

Curacao has its own elected parliament and the Dutch government can't interfere with that.
 

mack341

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May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
Curacao has its own elected parliament and the Dutch government can't interfere with that.

from the christian science monitor website [I know]

Optimism ran high here in late 2010 when the Dutch kingdom granted this small southern Caribbean island more autonomy than it ever held before. The Dutch wiped clean 80 percent of Curaçao’s debt and handed over control of most government functions to local leaders. For the first time since Spaniards arrived in 1499 and quickly enslaved the indigenous, the island controlled its destiny.

....Few expected this level of uncertainty less than three years ago when the Dutch dissolved the Netherlands Antilles, thereby making Curaçao a self-governing country. The Dutch retained control of some functions and oversaw the country’s finances

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From the website indexoncensorship.org regarding curacao journalist safety and censorship [mainly self censorship to avoid harm]:

While the island has had its own government since 2010, ties with the Netherlands are still strong. Corruption and organised crime in Curacao are occasionally discussed in Dutch parliament and the Dutch police is involved in the Wiels murder investigation. [he was the politician murdered in broad daylight]

But “the relationship is disturbed,” according to Dryer. “The Netherlands is careful to intervene when things are going the wrong way on the islands, because they’re afraid to be seen as the coloniser.” He thinks his country could be more involved when it comes to corruption and organised crime. “They should speak up more. The Netherlands worries about human rights in China, but when it comes to Curacao they say it’s an internal matter.”

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Until the dutch monarchy were to fully hand over the island to the inhabitants, they must have avenues of control/influence. Autonomy is one thing but ownership sits above that imo. They could intervene on the basis of removing corruption...


118040
 
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sufferinsilence

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The Dutch can't even make up their mind on their own gambling laws, let alone they should intervene in another countries ;)

I -think- the Dutch only intervene when the Curacao government specifically asks for help, like when a hurricane is about to hit or when there would be a political coup.
 

mack341

Senior Member
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May 8, 2018
Location
south east england
The Dutch can't even make up their mind on their own gambling laws, let alone they should intervene in another countries ;)

I -think- the Dutch only intervene when the Curacao government specifically asks for help, like when a hurricane is about to hit or when there would be a political coup.

Yeah you're probably right, there's official etiquette/rules regarding these things just seems a wasted opportunity.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
I did some research into the article posted here ....

No, you posted that article to begin with and are now pretending to be someone else who "just happens" to have an interest. Apparently we can add being a "sock puppet" -- a person who creates multiple accounts on the forums so they can talk to, usually agree with, themselves -- to your other misdemeanors: multiple accounts, attempted blackmail, lying about working for Casinomeister, etc.

Hyzenburg = Delgotti = Brandon Walsh = ...

The banner hammer is an infinite resource buddy, I'm happy to keep dishing it out.
 
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danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Weird really. We know the licensing is weak, and there are interesting conversations to be had. But clearly not by that person, who is just angry at the world.

With Curacao the essence is this: the licensing is weak, but well-managed casinos still use it for their own reasons. So long as those casinos remain well-managed, you can trust them. If things change in future, I’m sure we’ll hear about it quickly. But ultimately, you pay your money, you take your chance.

And it’s not as if there aren’t rogue operations happily continuing to operate under MGA or UKGC licenses.
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
Weird really. We know the licensing is weak, and there are interesting conversations to be had. But clearly not by that person, who is just angry at the world.

With Curacao the essence is this: the licensing is weak, but well-managed casinos still use it for their own reasons. So long as those casinos remain well-managed, you can trust them. If things change in future, I’m sure we’ll hear about it quickly. But ultimately, you pay your money, you take your chance.

And it’s not as if there aren’t rogue operations happily continuing to operate under MGA or UKGC licenses.

I couldn't have said it better. Just because of a Curacao license, it doesn't mean by definition that the casino is bad, although UKGC and MGA might offer additional security for the player if shit hits the fan.

As for BitStarz, no other licensing than the Curacao one allows us to be as flexible with cryptocurrencies (which is a substantial part of our business), and that would again be our reason for sticking with it.

But as for the Curacao Licensed casinos, I think it really puts an extra emphasis on us as operators to show that we take responsibility, are active in forums and try to be transparent, despite having a license that might not be as highly regarded as others.

Olle
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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But as for the Curacao Licensed casinos, I think it really puts an extra emphasis on us as operators to show that we take responsibility, are active in forums and try to be transparent, despite having a license that might not be as highly regarded as others.

I think this pretty much nails it. Some Curacao operators are unadulterated crap and deserve all the scorn they rightly receive. Others are some of the best and most trusted operators that we've worked with in the 20 years that Bryan and I have been in the business.

Clearly it's the operators that matter, the licensing jurisdiction itself is virtually a non-entity. This is not news. It wasn't too many years ago when that same observation applied to the industry as a whole. Curacao just happens to be a bit of a dinosaur in that it hasn't evolved (much) with the times.

As to the OP's crusade that Curacao licenses "don't exist" I think I'd rather have someone who knows what they are talking about comment on that. Frankly the legalese of it isn't of particular interest to us because, as indicated above, until relatively recently Curacao was not significantly different than anywhere else. The legal status of a good many licensing jurisdictions is a matter of debate, it often depends who you talk to.

So yes, today Curacao is a feeble excuse for a licensing jurisdiction, but so is Panama and Antigua and Costa Rica and ... etc, etc, the list goes on. TBH Gibraltar, for instance, isn't a whole lot better IMO -- it was a few years ago but that was then and this is now -- in that players get treated as Gib sees fit and there is nothing in place to allow players to appeal their decisions or seek arbitration. We could continue in this vein for quite some time.

The bottom line is that decent licensing jurisdictions -- meaning those backed by and accountable to the laws of the state, with proper regulatory oversight, good principles of operation and/or codes of conduct for their licensees, and a meaningful appeals and arbitration process -- are very much rarer than most people realize.
 
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Harry_BKK

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Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
I think this pretty much nails it. Some Curacao operators are unadulterated crap and deserve all the scorn they rightly receive. Others are some of the best and most trusted operators that we've worked with in the 20 years that Bryan and I have been in the business.

Clearly it's the operators that matter, the licensing jurisdiction itself is virtually a non-entity. This is not news. It wasn't too many years ago when that same observation applied to the industry as a whole. Curacao just happens to be a bit of a dinosaur in that it hasn't evolved (much) with the times.

As to the OP's crusade that Curacao licenses "don't exist" I think I'd rather have someone who knows what they are talking about comment on that. Frankly the legalese of it isn't of particular interest to us because, as indicated above, until relatively recently Curacao was not significantly different than anywhere else. The legal status of a good many licensing jurisdictions is a matter of debate, it often depends who you talk to.

So yes, today Curacao is a feeble excuse for a licensing jurisdiction, but so is Panama and Antigua and Costa Rica and ... etc, etc, the list goes on. TBH Gibraltar, for instance, isn't a whole lot better IMO -- it was a few years ago but that was then and this is now -- in that players get treated as Gib sees fit and there is nothing in place to allow players to appeal their decisions or seek arbitration. We could continue in this vein for quite some time.

The bottom line is that decent licensing jurisdictions -- meaning those backed by and accountable to the laws of the state, with proper regulatory oversight, good principles of operation and/or codes of conduct for their licensees, and a meaningful appeals and arbitration process -- are very much rarer than most people realize.

Great summary.

I think you don't even have to go as far as Gibraltar. The MGA was not much of a licence in the first years of its existence either. In fact, they changed only in the last few years with the last major change being in Jan 2019. Until then, any casino could have just ONE single game running under the MGA licence and the rest under whatever they preferred, yet were still allowed to display the MGA logo. And that is just one aspect, I am sure some of the veteran casino managers/reps can remember the Wild West days in Malta. :D

And let's not forget that many casinos that are today at the top of the list started with a Curacao licence before acquiring one from the MGA, UKGC etc. once the were able to afford them.

EDIT: Just for nostalgic reasons, we should all remember the days of Kahnawake. At the time, it was the only licence a player could trust.
 
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Kroffe

เ๓ ค Ŧคภςץ ๒єคг
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Mar 2, 2019
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sweden
Haha, thanks man. Only half Swedish, but I do speak the language though : )

That counts.
Then we can communicate in the superior language.
To make sure the "others" dont try to cheat with google-translate, i will do it in the code all Swedes know.
;)

Dodetot äror lolitote foföror momycockoketot enongogelolsosmomänon hohäror, vovisossostot?
 
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