Boyle Casino id verification problems

Gambleguy

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Location
Canada
Hi recently signed up for the Boyle's Casino No Deposit promotion this being run from this site.
I signed up for the Casino as I usually do with no problem, and then their support asked for Identifcation.
So I sent them a copy of my valid drivers licence with the licence number on the top whited out, this is what I usually do at all casinos with no problem, I do this to protect myself from idenity theft.
So they said this idenification was not good enough I had to send them my passport. So I sent them an email saying if I sent the passport with the passport number whited out would that do and they said it wouldnt.

So then I said would they accept my hdyro bill or telephone bill with my name address etc on it and they said it would be no good, they were peristent in the fact that they wanted these numbers on my id, which to me I found troubling and scared me off, I dont see how these numbers have any bearing on me making an account, on the id provided they had my name, address and age, and if they didnt think it was me, like i said i was willing to provide them with documentation with my name on it from my home , like phone bill etc.

Cheers
 

Simmo!

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
May 29, 2004
Location
England
Hmmm. Interesting. I've always been under the impression that the casino needs the full passport or drivers licence ID so they can do the security checks. When it comes to credit cards and stuff, then whiting out portions of the numbers should be de facto, but how could they do a security check if they can't reference you?

My guess is that it depends on the level of security check. The UK bookies and brand names (like Boyle) are more likely to do a proper security check whereas maybe a small offshore operation is just happy if you have access to the documents.

Cheers

Simmo!
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hmmm. Interesting. I've always been under the impression that the casino needs the full passport or drivers licence ID so they can do the security checks. When it comes to credit cards and stuff, then whiting out portions of the numbers should be de facto, but how could they do a security check if they can't reference you?

My guess is that it depends on the level of security check. The UK bookies and brand names (like Boyle) are more likely to do a proper security check whereas maybe a small offshore operation is just happy if you have access to the documents.

Cheers

Simmo!


Clearly, many players are scared of giving away TOO much that is NOT NECESSARY, or APPEARS to be not necessary. I do not really believe these numbers are necessary since the casinos CANNOT check them with the relevant authorities because of data protection laws, and the fact that officially, these documents are NOT ID DOCUMENTS outside of the narrow and SPECIFIED usages on them.

All they need is enough to determine the documents are genuine, and tally with the "proof of address" documentation. They also need DOB on one document as proof a player is of legal age to gamble.

Casinos NEVER make it clear WHY they need certain parts of the information, and the increasing prevalance of ID theft is making players wary of giving away more than is strictly necessary.

Whilst individual casinos may handle such information with the sensitivity and security it warrants, there are MANY cases where information has leaked out to spammers and shysters that can ONLY have originally come from a casno's database. There are ALSO far too many cases where players send this sensitive information to casinos, only to have them "lose" it, and continually ask again and again for it to be resent. This gives the impression of a system that leaks sensitive emails like a sieve, and naturally this makes players over cautious when sending this information the NEXT time.

A passport number IS a BIGGER risk when it is included, than when it is NOT. IF the file is stolen by a rogue employee, they may be able to make a forged photo page for a passport, but it will NOT contain the CORRECT passport number, and therefore would be more easily spotted where it REALLY matters. With the photo page AND the ID, the information on a forgery would be COMPLETE, and ACCURATE, and would pass all information based verification checks, even if the forger added their OWN photo (as they do) for use at borders and banks.
WITHOUT the passport number, the normal checks (age, address, photo, etc) can STILL be done, but the image would be LESS of a risk if it were to fall into the wrong hands.

Driver number is less risky than a passport number in the big picture, as it does NOT allow illegal entry into a country (which worries governments), but may STILL pose just as big a risk of ID fraud to the driver were it to fall into the wrong hands.

Casinos need to DEMONSTRATE that such information is REALLY treated with the security it warrants, and to players, this means NO MORE "losing the email with the documents attatched", and continually asking for documents to be "resent".

An email with sensitive documents is NEVER "lost", it is MISLAID, either by human error in CS, or by their server. They should ensure that their IT can NEVER "lose" emails containing security verification documents, and that they can ALWAYS account for them when asked to by a player.

Maybe THEN players will start to be confident about leaving all the "numbers" in place on a document.

Some countries have LAWS that actually make compliance with a request such as this ILLEGAL, and this is something casinos need to be careful of. They may enrage the governments of countries whose governments are currently negative about online casinos, and give these negative views further fuel for their justification.

In the UK, it may well be ILLEGAL to send a COLOUR image of the passport complete with all information, yet casinos often INSIST under duress of not receiving the withdrawal, and this could be viewed as "blackmail" to commit an illegal act. The US government have a rule that makes it ILLEGAL for the Social Security Number to be given out to an unauthorised person, and as far as the US is concerned, this means ALL online casinos.

The Rushmore fraud early this year was probably enabled by a rogue employee taking copies of passports that tourists gave to the staff for "safe keeping". The UK Home Office have advised us NOT to do this, but to use a room safe, or take them with us.
 

Sam@bskyb.com

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Location
Belfast
Gambleguy,

My thanks for signing up to the site via Casinomeister. Simmo above hits the nail on the head with regards to carrying out checks on our players. The check is part of an age verification requirement that we carry out within 3 days of registration.

Im sorry if we havent communicated this effectively enough but Ive included the first paragraph of the email we sent out below:

Dear Customer,

Many thanks for opening an account with Boylesports. Further to the registration of your details and in line with KYC (Know your customer) regulations we are also required to age verify all of our customers. Unfortunately we have been unable to verify all of your details. For that reason we would be grateful if you could provide us with proof of ID, in the form of a valid drivers licence or passport. Please be advised that you can send us this information by email, fax or post.
We require the Passport Number in order to verify the document which is why the customer services team would have pointed out that it was needed. We believe doing this at the point of registration is much fairer than at the point of first withdrawal. I had mentioned some of this before in a previous post (https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/boyles-casino-great-start.34051/), but I appreciate that its not possible to read every item on the forum.

Unfortunately, in that very post I had mentioned issues with accepting Canadian players and I can see from your address on the forum that youre situated in Canada. We should have clocked that and as a good will gesture Ive added a credit to your account which can be used in our other gaming channels. Ill talk to Casinomeister admin later today about putting a mention in the promotional post about non accepted countries.

Vinylweatherman while Im perhaps not in an informed position like yourself to talk about the industry as a whole, I would like to make it clear that Boylesports operates strict privacy policy controls in accordance with our regulatory obligations. We take all available measures to ensure player information is held securely, be it digital or printed copy. For that reason, I cant recall any instances at Boylecasino where a customer has been asked multiple times for their ID after submitting them previously (for the exception where a customer has changed address)

Gambleguy, please let me know if theres anything else I can do for you.
 

Gambleguy

Dormant account
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Location
Canada
Gambleguy,

My thanks for signing up to the site via Casinomeister. Simmo above hits the nail on the head with regards to carrying out checks on our players. The check is part of an age verification requirement that we carry out within 3 days of registration.

Im sorry if we havent communicated this effectively enough but Ive included the first paragraph of the email we sent out below:


We require the Passport Number in order to verify the document which is why the customer services team would have pointed out that it was needed. We believe doing this at the point of registration is much fairer than at the point of first withdrawal. I had mentioned some of this before in a previous post (https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/boyles-casino-great-start.34051/), but I appreciate that its not possible to read every item on the forum.

Unfortunately, in that very post I had mentioned issues with accepting Canadian players and I can see from your address on the forum that youre situated in Canada. We should have clocked that and as a good will gesture Ive added a credit to your account which can be used in our other gaming channels. Ill talk to Casinomeister admin later today about putting a mention in the promotional post about non accepted countries.

Vinylweatherman while Im perhaps not in an informed position like yourself to talk about the industry as a whole, I would like to make it clear that Boylesports operates strict privacy policy controls in accordance with our regulatory obligations. We take all available measures to ensure player information is held securely, be it digital or printed copy. For that reason, I cant recall any instances at Boylecasino where a customer has been asked multiple times for their ID after submitting them previously (for the exception where a customer has changed address)

Gambleguy, please let me know if theres anything else I can do for you.

I appreciate you coming out and addressing this issue. The fact of the matter is this, I still dont see what purpose that the number on a passport or license serves as far as identifying my age.
The id I provided you had my name, address and birth date all very legible, unless you have access to sensitive government files to see if the number is valid I cant see what purpose it serves.
I appreciate you giving me a credit to play on your site to be used in other gaming channels, but I dont see what purpose this will serve as you know that I wont provide you with any more ID than I have already, and the ID I provided you have refused, so how will I be able to enjoy the credit.

Cheers
 

eu_lowroller

Non-Gambler
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Location
Austria
I still dont see what purpose that the number on a passport or license serves as far as identifying my age.

i don't know how it is in your country, but in our country we can see the birthdate in the passportnumber, but you must read the numbers only from right to left ;)
 

Wildfire7

Dormant account
Joined
Apr 8, 2006
Location
UK
I was under the impression that in order for the casinos to do a full security check they outsource the verification process to a third party, who has access under the Data Protection law to verify documents.

My view is if you entrust casinos with your credit/debit card details in the first place then sending a scan of a passport with number included shouldn't be a problem. Rogue employers could do more damage cloning your card than with a passport number. Also if you go to the airport you wouldnt dream of blotting out your passport number because of Data Protection.

However casinos are always telling us how our security is important to them but do not reassure the player enough on exactly how this is done.

In my experience to avoid any hassles in the ID process, its best to send the documents beforehand.

Mike
 

eu_lowroller

Non-Gambler
Joined
Oct 24, 2009
Location
Austria
if you entrust casinos with your credit/debit card details in the first place then sending a scan of a passport with number included shouldn't be a problem. Rogue employers could do more damage cloning your card than with a passport number.

That's so true!

I've sent so miuch casinos my passport copy without any problems, because when they have all my details and credit card infos, why should i have any problem to sending my passport or drivers license copy?
This is a contrariety ;)
 

Sam@bskyb.com

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Location
Belfast
I appreciate you coming out and addressing this issue. The fact of the matter is this, I still dont see what purpose that the number on a passport or license serves as far as identifying my age.
The id I provided you had my name, address and birth date all very legible, unless you have access to sensitive government files to see if the number is valid I cant see what purpose it serves.
I appreciate you giving me a credit to play on your site to be used in other gaming channels, but I dont see what purpose this will serve as you know that I wont provide you with any more ID than I have already, and the ID I provided you have refused, so how will I be able to enjoy the credit.

Cheers

Gambleguy,

Sorry for the late response, I've been out of the office with a dead battery in my Blackberry!

On your issue, user Wildfire7 makes the correct suggestion that it's the ID number that verifies the documentation we receive. We're not disputing that the documentation is ineligible; we simply saying that we need to verify its authenticity.

While I can't twist your arm to come in and use your free credit (and I'm not here to hard sell... I promise!) I can only again point out that we do have very strict privacy policy procedures that ensure any information we hold on our customers is done so to the best possible security standards.

The points raised in the thread do contain very valid issues about the non regulated side of the industry, especially your concerns on disclosing sensitive information to potential rogue sites. We can only hope that in the future, regulation continues to be on the agenda of the worlds legislators as it will help to instil more trust between both player and operator.
 

love2winalot

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Location
Philippines/Visiting Las vegas
Hiya to Boyle Casino Rep:

I have a question also regarding docs. I am in Vegas, but will be in the Philippines in a couple of weeks, for a month. This is the prelude to moving there permanetly early next year. Here is my question?

When i download the Casino, From our house we had built there, Under Who's name does the Casino account need to be in?
The house is on my sisterinlaws land, and in her name, and she has bank accts in her name, but i can get a bank account at PNP in my name if i want.

I have a US drivers license
I have an international drivers license
I have a US passport
But I will be living in Morong, Philippines.

Is there a way to have the Account at your Casino, in my name in PI, or do i just need to put it in my sisterinlaws name? And if so, what Doc's does she need? Thanks.:confused:
 

Sam@bskyb.com

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Location
Belfast
Hiya to Boyle Casino Rep:

I have a question also regarding docs. I am in Vegas, but will be in the Philippines in a couple of weeks, for a month. This is the prelude to moving there permanetly early next year. Here is my question?

When i download the Casino, From our house we had built there, Under Who's name does the Casino account need to be in?
The house is on my sisterinlaws land, and in her name, and she has bank accts in her name, but i can get a bank account at PNP in my name if i want.

I have a US drivers license
I have an international drivers license
I have a US passport
But I will be living in Morong, Philippines.

Is there a way to have the Account at your Casino, in my name in PI, or do i just need to put it in my sisterinlaws name? And if so, what Doc's does she need? Thanks.:confused:

Any accounts created must be in the name of the player. We can't accept instances where a family member has given permission to use their name.

With regards to whether or not you can play at Boylecasino, unfortunately we cannot take business from that country anyhow so you would only be able to register and play in other gaming channels.
 
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