Casino Complaint BOVADA - Locking Jackpots, taking profit for themselves, cheating the players

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MichaelBluejay

Full Member
webmeister
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Jun 16, 2004
Location
In Austin, Texas, man
Later, we were told that in fact the problem had been known about all along, and had been under investigation for some time.
Who told us that? That's the problem with passive voice, it's ambiguous. If you mean Bovada, they certainly didn't say what you allege that someone says.

vinylweatherman said:
It's pretty clear that they knew about this problem, but decided to cover it up so that they wouldn't have to pull the games and suffer a loss of revenue whilst the issue was investigated, identified, and fixed.
If you mean Bovada (because again, you didn't say), what you say is "pretty clear" is actually not clear at all. I think that they genuinely *thought* there was no problem, and only recently were they convinced by people like CL-Ed and me. I found out about the problem only on May 28, and wrote to my contact at Bovada less than a week ago.

vinylweatherman said:
Unfortunately, events caught up with them and now players have lost confidence in the integrity of the casinos offering the games, as well as the games themselves.
Really? There are, what, five or six people contributing to this thread? I think the overwhelming majority of players are blissfully unaware of the issue, and many of the rest simply don't care, especially if the problem is eventually fixed.
 

MichaelBluejay

Full Member
webmeister
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Jun 16, 2004
Location
In Austin, Texas, man
Betsoft has been pulled from Bovada!
No they haven't, and shame on me for assuming that this post was accurate, especially since it came from the same person who titled this thread "Bovada locking jackpots, taking profit for themselves."

Bovada has pulled only the games with progressive slots. I count nearly 50 Betsoft slots that are still live.
 

jt2oux

Newbie member
Joined
Oct 21, 2015
Location
Denver, Colorado
I'm playing Good Girl Bad Girl on Bovada as we speak

They only pulled it on their website games played via browser. I am playing GGBG and Greedy Goblin at this moment using the Bovada Casino app. Still available..
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Who told us that? That's the problem with passive voice, it's ambiguous. If you mean Bovada, they certainly didn't say what you allege that someone says.

If you mean Bovada (because again, you didn't say), what you say is "pretty clear" is actually not clear at all. I think that they genuinely *thought* there was no problem, and only recently were they convinced by people like CL-Ed and me. I found out about the problem only on May 28, and wrote to my contact at Bovada less than a week ago.

Really? There are, what, five or six people contributing to this thread? I think the overwhelming majority of players are blissfully unaware of the issue, and many of the rest simply don't care, especially if the problem is eventually fixed.

This is what happens when those involved on the industry side decide to keep quiet rather than let customers know exactly what is going on.

I was also referring to Betsoft, rather than individual casinos that carried their games.

The majority of players are probably unaware, but they have Google to make them aware, and the sudden disappearance of the progressive games with no announcement will have more than the 6 contributors of this thread looking for an explanation, and the most obvious way of doing this is using a search engine. This will bring up this thread, along with similar discussions elsewhere.

Even if they didn't know, it should have been obvious from the data that there was very likely a problem with the games.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
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Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I heard back from an affiliate manager at Bovada. I presume I'm not able to share the details of what he told me, but in short, he basically said they've been actively investigating the issue for a while. I told them that their response has been completely inadequate. They should have confirmed the problem months ago and pulled the games in question, and now they should be giving much better public responses, including what actions they intend to take, along with timeframes. I'm not holding my breath.

Yes, I know the source of the problem is Betsoft, but Bovada is their customer, not us, so Bovada's the one that needs to put the screws to Betsoft, and they're apparently not doing so.
This is where I got the impression that this issue was known about and being investigated whilst players were being given the message that there was no problem with the games. So Bovada knew there was an issue worthy of investigation, yet they said nothing to players and let the broken games continue to offer unwinnable jackpots.

The "I presume I'm not able to share the details" is another reflection of the policy of silence rather than frank communication with customers when such issues occur.

I am pretty certain that without the pressure placed on Bovada and betsoft over this from data gatherers and maths that was getting harder to refute as time went on, nothing would have been done about this issue and players would have been getting ripped off for much longer trying to win the unwinnable.
 

MichaelBluejay

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Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Location
In Austin, Texas, man
jt2oux said:
They only pulled it on their website games played via browser. I am playing GGBG and Greedy Goblin at this moment using the Bovada Casino app. Still available.
What app? I don't see Greedy Goblins or other progressive Betsoft slots on my iOS mobile app.

I was also referring to Betsoft, rather than individual casinos that carried their games.
You said, "Later, we were told that in fact the problem had been known about all along, and had been under investigation for some time." Betsoft never said that. Bovada never said that. Nobody ever said that. In that post you quoted of me, I said that Bovada said they've known about the issue for "a while", NOT "all along" as you misquoted.

Both Bovada and Betsoft have plenty to answer for, but let's stop inventing ridiculous, fictional misdeeds, such as Bovada "keeping the money for themselves" and "they knew about the problem all along".

vinylweatherman said:
So Bovada knew there was an issue worthy of investigation, yet they said nothing to players and let the broken games continue to offer unwinnable jackpots.
No, no, no, no, no! Bovada didn't immediately *know* that they had broken games. It took some convincing. (In fact, they still might not be convinced, but at least they're taking action.) We all know that for every 1000 players that allege that a casino is cheating or has broken games, maybe one is actually correct. When I started reading this thread, and it opened with the ridiculous "Bovada keeping the profit for themselves," I was already half not listening. How many times a day do you think Bovada gets complaints that its games are rigged, and how many times has that *ever* turned out to be true before now? You can see how initially they'd be skeptical that anything was really wrong.

When I wrote to them, quite recently, I tried to present the issue in a very understandable way, much differently than it was initially presented here. Maybe that made a difference to them, and that's why the finally pulled the games, I don't know. Bottom line is, Bovada's had a great reputation for many years and it's a stretch to believe they would *knowingly* offer bad games, *especially* when the unwinnable jackpot levels are publicly posted where the whole world can see them. If that was a scam, it was a pretty stupid scam.
 

CL-Ed

Experienced Member
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Jul 28, 2014
Location
Australia
The Betting Partners affiliate program which represents Bovada and related casinos have known about this since February 28 this year. I wrote them a detailed email pointing out the numbers and errors discovered. I was told that it was being passed on to "the product team".

I followed up a few more times over the following month or so but got nowhere. I tried to give them the benefit of the doubt because I truly don't believe that it is the fault of any of the casinos. However there comes a point where you have to say enough is enough and draw a line. Now we get to see who does the right thing by their players and who doesn't.

I am pleased to see that Bovada has finally removed all the Betsoft progressive jackpot games from their website. If it was me I would remove all the rest too because we can hardly trust that they are fair games after all this, but its a start. I'd also like to know about the 25c Bad Girl jackpot at Bovada and whether it was won with or without an update to the game, or if the funds removed from the pot.

Anyway its a whole lot more than Betcoin have done for Jason, the guy who won the jackpot. They are instead playing the "we're just an intermediary, Betsoft controls the games, we can't do anything" card. And yet they continue to accept money from players on those games. That tells us all we need to know about Betcoin's operator.

If you're another operator reading this, you need to remove these games too. The problem is not confined to Bovada and Betcoin.
 

CL-Ed

Experienced Member
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Location
Australia
Just to correct you here its not a million dollars because the player was playing in mBTC. So he was in the .5 denomination and that equates to 500BTC with a value in the 300k range.
Thanks, that was my mistake. I'm used to thinking in dollars by default! We corrected that in our article on Friday.
 

bowlingbob

Full Member
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May 1, 2008
Location
usa
BTW, the betsoft games in question can still be loaded up in real money from the Poker Client of Bovada.
 

RolfMoister

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Oct 20, 2014
Location
U,S AND THE A
No they haven't, and shame on me for assuming that this post was accurate, especially since it came from the same person who titled this thread "Bovada locking jackpots, taking profit for themselves."

Bovada has pulled only the games with progressive slots. I count nearly 50 Betsoft slots that are still live.
My bad. I saw that the Jackpot games were gone and didn't check the other games carefully enough.

In any case, this is good news!
 

MichaelBluejay

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webmeister
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Jun 16, 2004
Location
In Austin, Texas, man
The Betting Partners affiliate program which represents Bovada and related casinos have known about this since February 28 this year. I wrote them a detailed email pointing out the numbers and errors discovered. I was told that it was being passed on to "the product team".
CL-Ed, I'm trying to get the chronology straight. On 14 Feb. you wrote on
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, "All our inquires to Betsoft were ignored. Bodog / Bovada more or less said 'its the luck of the draw' which is pretty much all they can say unless they want to admit that the jackpots are somehow controlled." That predates the 28 Feb. date you gave in this thread. Is the 28 Feb. date a mistake, or was that a second (or third or fourth) attempt to contact Bovada? Do you have records of when you first contacted Bovada and Betsoft about the jackpot issue?

In other news, I'm starting to worry that we're not headed to a real resolution -- Bovada might just keep the Betsoft progressives pulled forever, and say nothing about it. That's not a satisfactory conclusion, since it would mean we never got confirmation from Betsoft that slots were indeed horked (and then fixed), and we wouldn't know if the players who contributed to the jackpot got their contributions refunded. I wish Bovada were more forthcoming about all this. Even though they've (finally) pulled the slots in question, they could certainly be better at communicating.
 

jasonort

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Jun 20, 2016
Location
Wisconsin USA
Stiffed for jackpot by BetSoft

I am the player in question who was stiffed for the jackpot. Details of my complaint can be found here:

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Screenshots of my unpaid jackpot winning spin can be found here:

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I have attempted to contact BetSoft with no response. They did quietly update their pay table for "The Glam Life" to exempt free spins from winning the jackpot. This language was not in the pay table at the time of my spin as evidenced buy screenshots shown at the link above.

I have filed complaints with Curacao eGaming commission as well as with the Malta gaming authority where BetSoft is licensed through their exclusive provider Digital Software Limited with a class 4 Lic. No. MGA/CL4/752/2011. I would appreciate any feedback on how I can pursue this with BetSoft, or through legal channels in Malta to get them to pay up. Thank you for any help you can lend.
 

MichaelBluejay

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In Austin, Texas, man
Hi Jason, and I'm sorry that Betsoft stiffed you. Unfortunately, Casinomeister considers the Curaçao eGaming license to be worthless, so I wouldn't expect any help from Curaçao eGaming. I'm not familiar with going through Malta rather than Curaçao eGaming through which Betsoft is licensed.

The three main sites that advocate for players are this one (Casinomeister), Ask Gamblers, and The Pogg. I'd pick one of those and ask if they'll advocate on your behalf. I suggest Casinomeister, because even if they can't recover your money, at least they might add Betsoft to the rogue software providers list, and might add some details to their Curaçao eGaming section where they're already rated 0 out of 5.
 

CL-Ed

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CL-Ed, I'm trying to get the chronology straight. On 14 Feb. you wrote on
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, "All our inquires to Betsoft were ignored. Bodog / Bovada more or less said 'its the luck of the draw' which is pretty much all they can say unless they want to admit that the jackpots are somehow controlled." That predates the 28 Feb. date you gave in this thread. Is the 28 Feb. date a mistake, or was that a second (or third or fourth) attempt to contact Bovada? Do you have records of when you first contacted Bovada and Betsoft about the jackpot issue?
Yes that is right, it was the 2nd or 3rd time I contacted them. Feb 28 was the start date of the most recent thread I found in my email when I searched the other day. It was also my most detailed email with lots of facts and figures.

I think I am right in saying that Jason has already been dismissed without help by AskGamblers.
 

CL-Ed

Experienced Member
webmeister
Joined
Jul 28, 2014
Location
Australia
An interesting thing I noticed today is that our tracker is showing that it appears that Bovada and Slots.lv have now pooled each of their their Betsoft jackpots into one amount that is the same at both casinos. While the games may not be playable at the moment (?) something is going on behind the scenes with these games.
 

RolfMoister

Full Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Location
U,S AND THE A
An interesting thing I noticed today is that our tracker is showing that it appears that Bovada and Slots.lv have now pooled each of their their Betsoft jackpots into one amount that is the same at both casinos. While the games may not be playable at the moment (?) something is going on behind the scenes with these games.
Interesting.
It could also be of value checking
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from time to time, to see what happens there.
 

MichaelBluejay

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In Austin, Texas, man
CL-Ed, how did you see the jackpots were pooled, when the affected games don't appear at Bovada? I thought your scraper had to make a bet to get the header info which includes the jackpot amount?
 

RolfMoister

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Oct 20, 2014
Location
U,S AND THE A
CL-Ed, how did you see the jackpots were pooled, when the affected games don't appear at Bovada? I thought your scraper had to make a bet to get the header info which includes the jackpot amount?
The jackpot is getting fetched by a normal POST-request.
No bet is needed to retrieve the values.
However, you need to load the game to get the correct cookies and POST-data to get that.
This could be obtained through the app or download casino, if the games are still available there.
 

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