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Bonuses - What Are They Intended For?

Discussion in 'Online Casinos' started by Pinababy69, Sep 4, 2006.

?

How Do You Use Bonuses

  1. Never use them, period!!!

    2 vote(s)
    2.8%
  2. I use bonuses all the time, and cashout as soon as WR are met, no matter how small the profit.

    19 vote(s)
    26.8%
  3. I will use a bonus, but will play past the WR, and only cashout a substantial amount.

    24 vote(s)
    33.8%
  4. I use bonuses, but could care less if I cashout or not, as long as I get to play.

    11 vote(s)
    15.5%
  5. I use them on rare occasions.

    15 vote(s)
    21.1%
    Sep 4, 2006
  1. Pinababy69

    Pinababy69 RIP Lisa

    Occupation:
    Crusader
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario - Canada
    This is a thread I have wanted to start for a long time now, but hadn't had the time, nor felt up to it. I'm pretty sure that I'm going to be in the major minority here, but that wouldn't be a first, nor will it be a last.

    I first started thinking about it when I read an old thread re: Lake Palace Casino refusing a bonus to a poster here accusing him of being a bonus abuser. eCogra initially denied his claim, and later reversed their decision, and the casino granted him the bonus. Basically, the t&c's stated that the deposit(s) had to be played through once, and a 20% weekly cashback would be granted. So the poster would deposit a large amount each week, play it through once, let it sit in his account until he got his 20% cashback, and then withdraw his deposit (or remainder of it), and play with his bonus only. The last time he had deposited $6,000 and was therefore entitled to a $1,200 bonus, which he was originally denied. Now while I fully understand that the casino left themselves wide open to this in the way the T&C's were written, I remember being absolutely flabbergasted that people (bonus hunters) actually do this.

    My dismay has been compounded many times over these last few months with all the bonus complaints I see posted here on a daily basis.

    This thread/poll is to satisfy my own curiousity as to what the average casino player thinks a bonus offered by a casino is "meant for". And what spirit do you think it is offered in?

    My own view on bonuses is I'm sure the polar opposite of most. To me, a bonus is nothing more than extended play time at a casino. And I believe that casinos offer bonuses for a two-fold reason. One, obviously, is to attract more players to their establishments. Two, I believe they are meant in exactly the "spirit" I take them, as a way of increasing your play time. Perhaps trying new games, or a wider variety of games. I don't believe they were ever offered as a way for a player to make money on a regular basis.

    Don't get me wrong, if I get a bonus and manage to hit something substantial and make the playthrough, by all means I would cash it out. However, I don't go hunting for bonuses in hopes of cashing out, or as a way of making some "easy money".

    I guess it really comes down to why you play/gamble period. I've said it in another thread, but will say it again here. If you gamble expecting to win, I really think you are just setting yourself up for disappointment and frustration. And if you gamble NEEDING to win, that is multiplied tenfold. I really think that gambling should be pure entertainment, and it should be entertaining. I get the feeling from some on here that it's almost a way of life, or a job. The day I no longer enjoy it will be the day I stop.

    All feedback is appreciated. :)
     
  2. Sep 4, 2006
  3. jetset

    jetset Ueber Meister CAG

    Occupation:
    Senior Partner, InfoPowa News Service
    Location:
    Earth
    My online casino operational experience was some time back and I may therefore be out of date, but I think Pina is right on the mark when she says that from a casino perspective bonuses are offered:

    "One, obviously, is to attract more players to their establishments. Two, I believe they are meant in exactly the "spirit" I take them, as a way of increasing your play time. Perhaps trying new games, or a wider variety of games."

    I would probably add that another reason is that the competition are all offering these incentives so it's risky not to, and that loyalty bonusing is very important too.

    Having said that, the casino controls this situation and has only itself to blame if ill-advised promos are not very carefully constructed and double-checked before being made available to players.

    How many times have we seen inept casino managers screw up on a promo and then try to make the players pay for their mistakes? That's a rhetorical question btw!

    There are players who view bonuses as equalisers or profit opportunities and couldn't give a damn about the "spirit" of a promo, and why should they - that's what the T&Cs are there for - so that both sides know exactly what the requirements and obligations involved are.

    The casino writes the T&Cs and therefore has the sole responsibility for safeguarding itself - and I'm not talking about BS catch-all conditions slipped in as an easy way to disqualify - that's a no-no for me.

    Bottom line, if a player resorts to fraudulent methods such as multi-accounting, false IDs, underage gambling or similar disqualifiable offences then he or she cannot expect to go unpunished. But if it is a bona fide player who hews strictly to the T&Cs written by the casino, then there is an absolute obligation that the casino honours it's promises.

    If the casino then feels it has been unfairly abused by such a player it has the ultimate sanction of exercising its right of future admission. But first it pays.

    Bottom line for the casinos - you can take a massive financial hit from a badly thought through promo - don't leave it to inexperienced staff to design these incentives, and always consider all the possibilities before releasing an offer.

    For the (honest) players - if you're taking a bonus make sure you fully understand the T&Cs and comply with them.
     
    5 people like this.
  4. Sep 4, 2006
  5. Vesuvio

    Vesuvio Dormant account

    Location:
    UK
    Bonuses aren't offered in any "spirit" other than a calculated attempt to make as much money for the casinos as possible. They know that, as a rule, anything the average player deposits at a casino will be lost - so they're willing to do almost anything to encourage deposits.

    Of course the bonus isn't offered to allow players to make money on a regular basis, that's just a natural consequence of offering bonuses, unless the terms are truly horrific or they resort to fraud (more and more common).

    I can understand why some people play for entertainment, though I'd personally find sitting in front of my computer and giving away money to a server pretty depressing. What I don't understand is why it's difficult to understand bonus hunters. Is it really hard to see the appeal of making a regular additional income by taking up casino offers? Of course it's a job rather than entertainment (except for KK, but he takes a huge cut in profits to accommodate that!) - but then as jobs go it could be worse ;) Not that I'd particularly recommend it to newbies as things are much tougher than they once were.
     
  6. Sep 4, 2006
  7. KasinoKing

    KasinoKing WebMeister & Slotaholic.. CAG MM PABnonaccred webmeister

    Occupation:
    House-Husband and Casino Advisor
    Location:
    Bexhill on sea, England
    This question has been asked before, so I will give the same answer... Quote:
    If youre not playing with bonuses, why withdraw EVER?
    Unless youve decided to completely give up all gambling, you are only going to re-deposit your funds again, so you may as well leave it in the casino for next time.
    Just as safe there as in Neteller.
    Ask yourself what is it you are trying to achieve?
    If its profit, take a bonus and try to reach the WR without losing, cashout & move to the next bonus.
    This gives you something to aim for, a target to achieve, a purpose to your gambling!
    If you dont seek profit you may as well play in fun mode its much cheaper! :D


    Jetset & Vesuvio are spot on with their posts. Bonuses are their to get players interested. The majority of players will carry on & lose. That's what the casino's are banking on.
    And yes V, I play as much for fun as profit - I know I could grind out a more regular income with 'low risk' strategies but it's boring as hell! And you'll never win 100x your bet on a hand of blackjack like you can on slots! ;)
     
  8. Sep 4, 2006
  9. Westland Bowl

    Westland Bowl Tin Foil Hat Club Member CAG PABnonaccred

    Occupation:
    not applicable
    Location:
    America
    To me, bonuses are a way the casino tries to make you play long enough, through wager requirements, to turn any positive variance you get into negative variance, resulting in you losing both your deposit and bonus. That certainly would be the case for a bonus that is only a "play" bonus, which never will be cashable, but you still have to meet wagering requirements in order to withdraw any winning amounts over your deposit.

    I really don't care to receive a bonus as I don't like having any restrictions like wagering requirements on my play, but if I am going to wager as much as the wagering requirement would be anyway, then, heck, "thanks" for the extra money.
     
  10. Sep 4, 2006
  11. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I'm with Mr Bowl - and Pina for that matter :thumbsup:

    I reckon that more than 50% of the time playing on high-variance slots (and playing without bonsues) I'm up at some point during my session, if only a little, and I like the fact that a bonus hasn't restricted my ability to cashout. Not that I always stop there of course, but perceivedly I could.
     
  12. Sep 4, 2006
  13. amatrine

    amatrine Crazy Cat Lady webmeister

    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Arizona City, Az
    re

    It would depend on the caisno. I think some of the rouged casinos that offer high bonuses with a maxiumum cashout do it , so you can hit the big jackpots and they never have to pay them.

    Places that are reputible I think do it as a way to keep loyalty .

    I play with a bonus now and then but not most of the time. Sometimes they are nice to play with though. For instance, lets say there is a particlar slot machine I want to play with a high jackpot. I may take a slots bonus and play strictly on that game trying to hit it.

    In general I would rather not take a bonus so I can cash out whenever I want. I probably only play with a bonus 20 percent of the time.

    Ama
     
  14. Sep 4, 2006
  15. silkprint

    silkprint Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Yup ...I work
    Location:
    Mass
    I rarely take an RTG bonus .
    I do take the 20% or 30% match at casinos offering EZ bonus because it is always clear what can be cashed out .
     
  16. Sep 4, 2006
  17. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    I agree here. The "fun" part for me in playing at a casino is being able to make a profit and feeling I have beaten the casinos "for the day". I love a challenge and if I make a few hundred from my small deposit, I know I have just made my monthly quota plus some for "entertaining" myself and a few more tries to go after a few more months worth of fun! If or when I lose the initial deposit, I move on, and this is the reason I like to withdraw any funds I have accumulated at any one casino.

    I don't like being TIED down to just one single casino, hence the withdrawal. If my funds are sitting in Neteller, I can move around until I find another hot spot and continue to build up my stash. Leaving funds in any one casino is not an option for me for sometimes I won't go back for weeks, sometimes months, depending who is the casino/game of the week for me in making a profit. I guess you can say the challenge is what keeps me going for I really hate to lose continuously and I don't.

    I guess you said it better than I!:D

    Using a bonus also is not usually an option I take for I don't like being told just how I have to play with my own money. This is a joke that the casinos offer that many haven't figured out IMO for the odds are you will bust out and if you do hit a nice big one..you have to sit there and grind it out and usually end up losing most if not all back anyway. Now THAT makes no sense to me at all. Scenerio: Hit $700 and still have $2000 WR left..met WR and have $140 balance vs...$700 withdrawal w/o lousy $25 bonus. No sense at all to me..I prefer to just play out my deposit and if I hit a nice big one..have no issues with withdrawing to move on to the next.

    Great poll Pinababy69!
     
  18. Sep 4, 2006
  19. johnsteed

    johnsteed Ueber Meister

    Occupation:
    N/A
    Location:
    N/A
    ***


    Great topic! :)


    Pinababy69


    I think of it as a way to entice the player to come to their respective casinos, trying to sell the player on the idea that their operation will fulfill their playing needs. Although a long list of casinos may butcher this concept, I also think of it as a way for them to "seemingly" show an early commitment to the player (although this statement to me is more reflective to what casinos used to be like a few years ago with their approach/stance with bonuses).


    This was my choice...

    I will use a bonus, but will play past the WR, and only cashout a substantial amount.


    I'll only cash-out when it's a substantial amount, at least double the amount of the bonus w/deposit after the wagering requirements have been met. Also, I'll only take the best bonuses that are being offered, using a combination of low wagering requirements added to a bonus that's at least a match (or more) of at minimum $50/100%. Generally, I'll only go with initial deposit bonuses from reputable casinos, and obviously the 32red Club Rouge + Crypto monthly match bonuses. But really, aside from the top casinos, I prefer playing without gaming restrictions.


    silcnlayc


    For the most part though, if I'm doing well - overall hot streak - I also steer clear of bonuses because it takes the fun away from playing whatever game the casinos have to offer. I can't tell you the amount of times I've been up over the $500-750 mark at an MG casino, using a bonus, only to have it drop to nil by the time the wagering requirements were met (or not). I'll use bonuses (not counting monthly ones) to springboard to another level, and avoid using them once I'm past a certain mark.


    Pinababy69


    I can't really agree about the part that we should see it as purely for entertainment sake. I used to want to believe that I was capable of approaching the game that way, but money's money and that is the prime factor of why we gamble... with the underlining possibility of making more of it. If were entertained by the sparkling games along the way, all the better.


    But, I GREATLY agree with this quote "Pinababy69" (above), because it reflects my very own approach to gambling online. I've gone chasing for weeks/months after bad streaks, and jaded perspectives of gambling mixed-in with a suddenly decaying standard of living rings a bell.


    I like making reasonably affordable deposits these days, take the challenge of trying to take it to "sky's-the-limit", and if I can't do that, step away for awhile, and take another kick-at-the-can if I got a little extra money/credit around.


    Steed

    ***
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  20. Sep 4, 2006
  21. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Sometimes I play a small bonus just for fun. It increases the playing time when there is a new game.

    But usually I play bonuses to try to win. It gives me more chances to hit a Royal Flush (video poker) or some other nice score. Winning is why I play in the first place, so yeah I am going to cash out if I am up and have completed the wagering requirements (otherwise I would be playing fun mode, because that is for fun only and not winning money).

    I think it is obvious that casinos offer bonuses to attract the big players who don't mind losing tons of money. They have to get them in the door first, and bonuses accomplish that.

    With the current bonus scene (20x wagering requirements and game restrictions galore) most casinos have seriously reduced their exposure to pure bonus hunters. In fact these bonuses are designed to directly make money for the casino rather than simply to attract more players. It is a good idea to cashout when the opportunity presents itself (live to play another day, and besides after all that gaming to clear the requirements I usually getting tired of it anyways).
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2006
  22. Sep 4, 2006
  23. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England
    I don't agree with that Soflat - I think bonuses are far less attractive to big players to be honest. I think what they hope is that they will attract small players who over time will become big players.
     
  24. Sep 4, 2006
  25. Rusty

    Rusty Banned User - repetitive flaming

    Occupation:
    IT
    Location:
    Manchester UK
    If youre not playing with bonuses, why withdraw EVER?
    Unless youve decided to completely give up all gambling, you are only going to re-deposit your funds again, so you may as well leave it in the casino for next time.
    Just as safe there as in Neteller.
    Ask yourself what is it you are trying to achieve?
    If its profit, take a bonus and try to reach the WR without losing, cashout & move to the next bonus.
    This gives you something to aim for, a target to achieve, a purpose to your gambling!
    If you dont seek profit you may as well play in fun mode its much cheaper!


    I agree with most of this but when I make a withdrawal I spend the money on something tangible. I look at Casinos as poor saving accounts with negative interest but with the payoff of being entertained and having the odd random lump sum thrown in. A sort of volatile premium bond might be more apt.
    As for fun mode, the fun is the risk and if you havent got that then it aint gambling is it?
    Anyway all habitual gamblers actually enjoy losing at a subliminal level it is a form of self admonishment and purifies the soul :p
    Tell that to the abolitionists!
    :lolup:
     
  26. Sep 4, 2006
  27. paul02085

    paul02085 Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Fishing :)
    Location:
    USA
    Agree. A guy who plays $100/hand blackjack could care less about a $100 match sign up bonus. To a guy who plays 25 cent slots, a $100 match is huge!

    I think the reason they offer them is that even with the bonus they are usually expected to win. When they dont, I think their attitude is "wait a minute, he was supposed to lose"
     
  28. Sep 4, 2006
  29. soflat

    soflat Senior Member

    Occupation:
    Scientist
    Location:
    Florida
    Keep in mind that my definition of a big player might be a small player to you.

    But you are probably right. The average sign-up bonus is not very big nowadays. They are typically 100% match up to $100, which would seem to be geared towards the masses rather than real high rollers.

    I think many casinos have transitioned from offering bonuses purely to attract new players to where now they can make a profit even if they have to give a bonus on every deposit (by increasing wr and adding other restrictions, the players won't be able to cash out except in cases of really good luck, in other words the bonuses themselves carry a house edge now).
     
  30. Sep 4, 2006
  31. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Agreed.

    Agreed on this also about getting bored/tired thats why I do not take bonuses when I know I want a variety of play such as blackjack and hold'em poker so I can move around freely. Once again, I hate the thought of being told how to play with my OWN money and what games I can play as per THIER T&C's.
     
  32. Sep 4, 2006
  33. nafanny29

    nafanny29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    financail adviser
    Location:
    London, England
    Thats my view, I never take a bonus that ties me in to wagering requirements before I can withdraw.

    The only bonuses I get are on Wagerworks casinos (Paddypower, Sky etc). Their bonus will be credited as soon as you have wagered enough in games it allows. You can clear it in one session or over several sessions, you can play any game, withdraw whenever and whatever you want. perfect really:thumbsup:

    As I say I enjoy a gamble online and bonuses really do not do it for me. I could never be like KK:notworthy who keeps records of everything and grinds out a bonus playing with minimum risk taking hours (I guess it does). I like the rush of a big win.. or busto.

    Like someones signature on here says "Money won is twice as sweet as money earned"
     
  34. Sep 4, 2006
  35. silcnlayc

    silcnlayc Just one more spin pleez! CAG MM PABnonaccred PABaccred

    Occupation:
    IT Director of Operations
    Location:
    Left Hungary
    Ditto ! :thumbsup: :D

    Me either. This would definitely take the wind outta my sails if I HAD to grind out WR on my money.

    It would feel too much like work and I want to enjoy the feel of winning and run with the money when it happens not make it a chore and a job to be able to collect a few bucks after having to spend 90% back just to meet the WR and the hassle one has every once in a while with withdrawing using a bonus as most complaints seem to come from on the forum! (KK is a better man than I , thank god I am a woman :D )
     
  36. Sep 4, 2006
  37. Simmo!

    Simmo! Moderator Staff Member

    Occupation:
    Web Dev.
    Location:
    England

    Yeah me too. I like loyalty bonuses like in Club Rouge where you have to wager $3k before you can withdraw and you can claim the bonus at any time retroactively. So i can play my own money, and if i win no hassles. If i lose, chances are I'm probably over the $3k so i can take the bonus later in the month again with no hassles.

    But then that's loyalty bonuses which are typically given to players "known" to the casino and less likely to try and take advantage. A different kettle of fish altogether but IMO far more flexible/preferable to a signup bonus.
     
  38. Sep 5, 2006
  39. ballysdb

    ballysdb Dormant account

    Occupation:
    automotive biller
    Location:
    Long Island NY
    Good topic Pina! I will take a bonus whenever I can unless there is a max cashout. I am a compulsive gambler and have the NEED to play. No, it's not a good reason but it's the truth.
     

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