Bonuses vs Terms and Conditions

[zap987]

Since the thread with the discussion about the recent issue at Inetbet is closed, I think it would be valuable to have a discussion about the underlying topic, which is: At which point are the rules unfair towards players and shouldn't be allowed from a respectable casino?

It's 2018, it's not really a problem to build in protections against bonus abuse that will not allow bets that would break the rules, how long are we going to allow casinos to profit off players making a small mistake? Sure, it costs time and money to develop this, instead of making free money from players mistakes, but that's really the up to the casino to choose a path, and sites like this one to push it towards the right one. I've never had a withdrawal cancelled because of bonus rules, because I've played for a long time and know to be careful, the players it will hurt the most are the new and inexperienced ones. It still annoys me every time I see someone lose money to having broken a rule in some insignificant way.

Yes, casinos need to protect themselves against advantage players, but that protection needs to not catch innocent people, and right now it does. It should be mandatory for casinos that want to be respected to have built in limitations on games and stakes. Since it might take a while to get that fully implemented, until then it should be up to the casino to prove the player gained a significant advantage when they broke the rules, yes if someone bets the full balance+bonus right away it's clear, but accidentally hitting max bet halfway through the wager should just never be grounds for losing all your money. It's time to stop hiding behind 'Player broke the rules, tough luck' and start dealing with this the right way.

 

[theapple]

im totally with it, as i said thousands times before - players are supposed to follow the rules (yes, all 295 pages of Bonus T&C included), and its about time casinos get a set of rules to follow too.

It really looks like casinos can put whatever they feel like in T&C, regardless of how stupid it sounds and looks like, and get away with it.

recently ive run into a casino where i literally needed to triple check some of their terms, and even then i wasnt fully sure what on earth they mean by it. And ive been playing online since 1947, or so. I can only imagine how daunting it has to be for someone new to casinos because i remember when i just started playing online. I didnt really read a single word of T&C. I was lucky because terms were much more player friendly back then but im sure there are 10's of thousands of people loosing money on daily basis because of modern bonus T&C theatrics, that serve only one purpose.

One of new Direx sites has this clause


2.g. Examples of abusing a promotion are:

• Making maximum allowed bets on high variance games in order to increase balance.
• Decreasing stake after big win and switching games.
• Making deposits with only bonus promotions without free cash deposits.
• Customer bonus ratio (deposits : bonuses) is more than 70% after the fifth deposit.

2.d.2. A customers bonus-release to deposit ratio (deposits : bonuses) can not be more than 70% after their 5th deposit . Players taking the entire welcome package cannot have a ratio of more than a 75% ( deposit : bonus) ratio as that is the full ratio allowed when using the welcome package.

now the catch is... their welcome package consists of 4 bonuses, on first 4 deposits. If you take all 4, and make 5th deposit without a bonus your bonus ratio is going to be 80%. So basically their welcome offer allows them to confiscate winnings. They also have 5th, highroller bonus right after you are done with your welcome offer. But hey, its in their rules so its all good, no?

Oh not to mention they forgot to mention what they mean by "decreasing stake after big win" either. And sadly its not first casino to have such a clause.

At least they wont let you play restricted games with a bonus (game wont start) but there is still 100's of casinos out there that not only let you start and play restricted games, but sometimes even have promotions with free spins on one of restricted games and if you stay after you play your free spins, you are as good as gone (and most people play a few spins after it).

Casinos are allowed to have ridiculous terms in their T&C but they are also pretty much given green light for false marketing and dont shy from doing stuff like - "HEY OUR WAGERING IS 30X", only to find out how there is a term, buried deep in T&C, paragraph 915.C.D.15.B - Only Starburst contributes 100%, the rest of our games contribute 50%. And nobody gives a rats a$$

Even if we ignore everything else, forget about all the little stunts casino pull to catch people of guard - its about time casinos are forced (yes forced) to make bonus T&C shorter and understandable without a need for a lawyer. For gods sake some of those T&C have like 295 paragraphs.

 

[nikantw]

Thing is, evil players form groups and attack casinos and promotions in ways even casinos don't know yet.
In order to respond casinos form rules that are vague, strict and cover large part of regular play.
We can expect accredited ones to be reasonable and if we do our part (ask support before play) CM should be able to solve any problems.

 

[lockinlove]

im totally with it, as i said thousands times before - players are supposed to follow the rules (yes, all 295 pages of Bonus T&C included), and its about time casinos get a set of rules to follow too.

It really looks like casinos can put whatever they feel like in T&C, regardless of how stupid it sounds and looks like, and get away with it.

recently ive run into a casino where i literally needed to triple check some of their terms, and even then i wasnt fully sure what on earth they mean by it. And ive been playing online since 1947, or so. I can only imagine how daunting it has to be for someone new to casinos because i remember when i just started playing online. I didnt really read a single word of T&C. I was lucky because terms were much more player friendly back then but im sure there are 10's of thousands of people loosing money on daily basis because of modern bonus T&C theatrics, that serve only one purpose.

One of new Direx sites has this clause


2.g. Examples of abusing a promotion are:

• Making maximum allowed bets on high variance games in order to increase balance.
• Decreasing stake after big win and switching games.
• Making deposits with only bonus promotions without free cash deposits.
• Customer bonus ratio (deposits : bonuses) is more than 70% after the fifth deposit.

2.d.2. A customers bonus-release to deposit ratio (deposits : bonuses) can not be more than 70% after their 5th deposit . Players taking the entire welcome package cannot have a ratio of more than a 75% ( deposit : bonus) ratio as that is the full ratio allowed when using the welcome package.

now the catch is... their welcome package consists of 4 bonuses, on first 4 deposits. If you take all 4, and make 5th deposit without a bonus your bonus ratio is going to be 80%. So basically their welcome offer allows them to confiscate winnings. They also have 5th, highroller bonus right after you are done with your welcome offer. But hey, its in their rules so its all good, no?

Oh not to mention they forgot to mention what they mean by "decreasing stake after big win" either. And sadly its not first casino to have such a clause.

At least they wont let you play restricted games with a bonus (game wont start) but there is still 100's of casinos out there that not only let you start and play restricted games, but sometimes even have promotions with free spins on one of restricted games and if you stay after you play your free spins, you are as good as gone (and most people play a few spins after it).

Casinos are allowed to have ridiculous terms in their T&C but they are also pretty much given green light for false marketing and dont shy from doing stuff like - "HEY OUR WAGERING IS 30X", only to find out how there is a term, buried deep in T&C, paragraph 915.C.D.15.B - Only Starburst contributes 100%, the rest of our games contribute 50%. And nobody gives a rats a$$

Even if we ignore everything else, forget about all the little stunts casino pull to catch people of guard - its about time casinos are forced (yes forced) to make bonus T&C shorter and understandable without a need for a lawyer. For gods sake some of those T&C have like 295 paragraphs.

lol some pretty bad terms in there especially the 70% after the 5th deposit. LOL. But thats why baptism by fire exists so we can find crap like that and report it. But outside this forum, i guess nothing can be done really.

And your last part has casinoluck/aspire group written all over it. You dont know how many times ive been elsewhere and seen tonnes of players suggest casinoluck because of their lower wagering at 35x. Until you find and follow the wagering link and see most games count as 50%. So really the wager is 70x. That is pretty shady and really misleads alot of people.

 

[Jono777]

Any males players popping up stairs for a quick "Tommy Tank" to celebrate a big win need not bother as said win will be voided and WE WILL find out!

Sorry, over tired and bored

 

[goatwack]

Any males players popping up stairs for a quick "Tommy Tank" to celebrate a big win need not bother as said win will be voided and WE WILL find out!

Sorry, over tired and bored

Don't need a big win to have a Tommy.

£25 is enough these days. It's about the only withdrawal one gets if lucky

 

[Reelsoffun]

While were on the subject of bonuses, I logged into casumo tonight to be greeted with 50 free spins on bonanza! Hell there bonuses are crap wagering but why not, i will throw a tenner away for some playtime then was met with....

"Currently you're not eligible to use bonuses. Speak with us in the chat if you need more information." Hmm ok so i go to live chat to see what the issue is and ended with probably the fastest ever chat of my life lol

Casumo-James:
Good evening! How can I help you tonight?
Me:
Currently you're not eligible to use bonuses. Speak with us in the chat if you need more information.
Casumo-James:
Yes, unfortunately this is a decision made by our payments department, due to failure to wager deposits for free spins
Me:
so is that permanent?
Casumo-James:
Yes
Me:
ok then just close my account as i use videoslots now anyway
Casumo-James:
As you wish
Me:
i was going to deposit tonight and wager the bonus but pointless
Casumo-James:
Your account is now closed

Less than 2 mins that was.

I find it laughable that I have received multiple emails offering free spins etc lately even tho i was clearly bonus banned ??? and even had spins on the account ready to use on login?

ROFL oh well another one off my closure "to do" list. Thats now put me into 2 dozen closed this year im on a roll