Question Bonus Selection Choices

RichyJ75

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One thing which has puzzled me for a while now is the conflict of people saying the result is pre-determined upon the press of the spin button, but when in the bonus round it is down to the player to make the selection.

The question is, with the bonus selection on say Secrets of the Stones, am I destined to be awarded, for example, a 1x multiplier, 3+ extra spins and wild reel 4 regardless of which stones I pick? Do I really have a choice in my bonus award?

The same applies to the Cartman fire extinguisher/hippy feature in South Park and other slots which give you choices (Monopoly, etc etc) in a bonus round.

In a way I would like to think it is pre-determined so it's not my fault for being awarded crap bonuses!!
 

goatwack

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Yeah I'm unsure as to the predetermined nature of my selection sometimes, as if the slot's algorithms stretch to such fine detail.

I always believed that over the course of extended playtime the results would just naturally even themselves out, not be shoehorned into my minute sessions, surely that would be easier to implement. Anything else would just indicate some form of interference in what should be a fair game.

I've had some great 'picks' on bonus rounds myself, but more often than not they are woeful. In fact I hate these types of bonuses with a passion as I'm always lumbered with 2.5 spins at 0.5 multiplier.:mad:

My happiest recollection of these bonuses was on Prime Property a while back where I unlocked every square, alongside the resultant 5-wild payline (should have grabbed a screenshot really).

The most blatantly rigged Pick Me bonus award falls to that David Hasselhoff game, whereby the repetitious picking of the lowest prize was almost laughable. But hey, at least it had the Hoff in it, so it's not all bad :cool:
 

slotter999

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According to letsgiveitaspin netent picks are never predetermined and that came from netent direct apparently.

Too bad game companies are required to provide that information because unless you see the code yourself it's impossible to prove / disprove.
 

interlog

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I asked the same question off Scientific Gaming and am still awaiting an answer to that. This topic actually reminded me to remind them to provide the answer (if they want to disclose the answer of course!!!)
 

Jono777

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I would say with 99.99% (recurring) certainty that picks are the same as the reels and nothing more than 'eye candy'

Secret of the Stones as you mention is a perfect example to use.

The moment the 3rd+ Scatter lands, the slots knows its Wild Reel 2, Extra 5 FS, x2 Multiplier and no matter where you click/stones chosen it will award those 3 'add on's'

Lets use another example in WMS's Ruby Slippers Wicked Witch feature. When its paid its pre-determine 'X' your next pick whichever you chose will be the Witch/Game Over.

Where I feel the pick will award a varied outcome (but that selection is still pre-determined) is in games where players have a choice of bonus round (examples include Thunderstruck II, Immortal Romance etc)

Cannot prove either way but something I firmly believe to be true and probably encouraged more so by years of play and zillions of spins.
 

RichyJ75

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Cheers for replies, guys. It was always in back of my mind that bonus picks were pre-determined, but as jonmincher says, the choice of bonus (such as Immortal Romance) must give a varied outcome?

Some of my favourite bonus rounds are in the Playtech Marvel games, but they are so infuriating to get booted out of the bonus so early, especially since they have great potential for a good payout. It would be reassuring to know that it is not my fault for picking the wrong option!
 

babyjoker

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I remember CT said ages ago that WMS would not be granted there licence for land based slots if the picks were not random and why would they change this for the online versions

So based on that I like to think that they are random, bar of course mega fortune and progressive jackpot games as that is decided the moment you press the spin button
 

k6kaysix

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It doesn't really matter either way at the end of the day in my opinion, hindsight is a wonderful thing "Oh if only I had picked that number instead of that one I would have won the lottery!" the fact is you don't know so just pick and be done with it :D
 

monttumies

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If game doesnt show alternative picks its 100% predetermined. (Hall of gods bonus, Cartman hippie bonus etc.)

If it shows alternative picks i think it depends on provider. Im pretty sure Secret of The Stones and other similar slots the picking actually makes the difference.
 

monttumies

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I remember CT said ages ago that WMS would not be granted there licence for land based slots if the picks were not random and why would they change this for the online versions

So based on that I like to think that they are random, bar of course mega fortune and progressive jackpot games as that is decided the moment you press the spin button

If slots shows alternative picks every pick has to have same probability and what you pick matters (regulation) in places like Las Vegas. If it doenst show then its always predetermined. (basically all jackpot features)
 

aceking123

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predetermined is the way , ive been playing over at laddys to where your main page is set in the back ground upon opening wms games & spinning you can watch your balance go up & down on main page ,when you hit a feature the monies are added straight away clear sign doesn't matter what you pick, although the box where your playing it doesn't show until you've finished the bonus game.
 

Jono777

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I remember CT said ages ago that WMS would not be granted there licence for land based slots if the picks were not random and why would they change this for the online versions

So based on that I like to think that they are random, bar of course mega fortune and progressive jackpot games as that is decided the moment you press the spin button


Sure CT is a great guy, friendly and his streams are great. His is however not the Gambling Guru and all seeing, all knowing when it comes to slots, neither am I.

This has to be all about why the slots exist in the first place and their design to take our cash and return a predetermined/set amount (granted over a very long time but still the model remains)

What I do know is 'pick me' rounds are not random, they are pre-determined and scratch yesterday's 99.99% surety, make it 100%.

There is no way this could be happen. Imagine a run of real 'lucky' picks if they were random and 50 players chose the best outcome continually, the slot would soon be well over its TRTP and if this pattern continued there is no way the slot could 'pull it back'

Imagine if you clicked a (lets use the word coin for this example) 'coin' and it was 10x. moving the mouse slightly to the left would have been 250x - No way hozay, if you'd picked the 250x (before seeing its value) it would have been 10x and the 250x would now be the 'un-selected' coin now to the right.

Although (unless we get a very honest developer in here) we will never prove it either way, years of gambling experience makes me confident when posting this and I'd stake every penny I'd ever come across in 44 years on this one!

Willing to be ridiculed, laughed at etc etc but won't change my thoughts on this one :thumbsup:

Happy Saturday!
 

interlog

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Sure CT is a great guy, friendly and his streams are great. His is however not the Gambling Guru and all seeing, all knowing when it comes to slots, neither am I.

I agree. He previously stated that the super monopoly bonus wheel is excluded from the overall game's TRTP, that it was a separate bet (there was a lengthy discussion about it here between him and Dunover) and he was wrong as it is included in the overall TRTP for the slot (as from a representative from Scientific Gaming, ie straight from the horses mouth).

I am still awaiting an answer from this representative with regards the picking feature on their slots. As soon as I have received it, I will reply back.
 

monttumies

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Sure CT is a great guy, friendly and his streams are great. His is however not the Gambling Guru and all seeing, all knowing when it comes to slots, neither am I.

This has to be all about why the slots exist in the first place and their design to take our cash and return a predetermined/set amount (granted over a very long time but still the model remains)

What I do know is 'pick me' rounds are not random, they are pre-determined and scratch yesterday's 99.99% surety, make it 100%.

There is no way this could be happen. Imagine a run of real 'lucky' picks if they were random and 50 players chose the best outcome continually, the slot would soon be well over its TRTP and if this pattern continued there is no way the slot could 'pull it back'

Imagine if you clicked a (lets use the word coin for this example) 'coin' and it was 10x. moving the mouse slightly to the left would have been 250x - No way hozay, if you'd picked the 250x (before seeing its value) it would have been 10x and the 250x would now be the 'un-selected' coin now to the right.


Although (unless we get a very honest developer in here) we will never prove it either way, years of gambling experience makes me confident when posting this and I'd stake every penny I'd ever come across in 44 years on this one!

Willing to be ridiculed, laughed at etc etc but won't change my thoughts on this one :thumbsup:

Happy Saturday!

Why would it make a difference? This happens all the time in games like roulette. Slots have certain house edge build to it and you could easily make those bonuses random if you wanted. Short term variance is so high anyways.

What CT is probably talking about are Class III slots in places like Las Vegas and in those picks are ALWAYS random and picking makes a difference. So im guessing hes making logical(?) conclusion that live versions of WMS slots are random so online versions are propably too(?)


Nevada Gaming Control Board regulation 14.040.2(b)
"For gaming devices that are representative of live gambling games, the mathematical probability of a symbol or other element appearing in a game outcome must be equal to the mathematical probability of that symbol or element occurring in the live gambling game. For other gaming devices, the mathematical probability of a symbol appearing in a position in any game outcome must be constant."
 

Jono777

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I hear your point and fair is fair.

Something which is very hard to fully explain in text on a forum.

Pick me rounds in online slots whether WMS, MGS, Netent, play N Go, NextGen etc etc are pre-determined and player selection makes no difference as the outcome is already decided.

This has no bearing on the randomness of the game the pre-determined outcome which will remain the same regardless of players interaction is already set in stone, when it happens is the random part.
 

monttumies

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I hear your point and fair is fair.

Something which is very hard to fully explain in text on a forum.

Pick me rounds in online slots whether WMS, MGS, Netent, play N Go, NextGen etc etc are pre-determined and player selection makes no difference as the outcome is already decided.

This has no bearing on the randomness of the game the pre-determined outcome which will remain the same regardless of players interaction is already set in stone, when it happens is the random part.

Gunslinger (Play N Go) bonus cant be predetermined because i have gotten smaller win picking the 3. option with highest variance because its not possible to win so little with first one lol. So at least some games have to be "random".

Some other games have similar feature like:
1. win between 250-750 coins
2. win 150-1500 coins
3. win 100-3000 coins

If you pick third option and win under 250 or over 750 coins it cant be predetermined.

I think slots like Immortal Romance bonus options work in similar fashion because Amber and Sarah have complete different variance. Its almost impossible to get 0 win in Sarah but i have gotten it multiple times in Amber feature.
 

iterativ

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Secret of the Stones as you mention is a perfect example to use.

The moment the 3rd+ Scatter lands, the slots knows its Wild Reel 2, Extra 5 FS, x2 Multiplier and no matter where you click/stones chosen it will award those 3 'add on's'

Another good example is Bloodsuckers' bonus game and why ALWAYS allows at least one pick to be done.
 
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