Bonus Banned at Lion's Slot

cynthial

Boo
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
Albuquerque
Swede and I are (were) regular players at Lions casino. Over the lifetime of the account which is about 4 months we are up $828.00. Almost always took a bonus of 25%, 40%, 50% or 100%, whichever was on the cashier page. Tonight I went to take the 40% one on the page and got an error message. Went into chat and was told:

Nicole: I am sorry to inform you but the casino reserves the right to deny promotions to anyone, without disclosing the reason why.
you: So this is not an error?
you: I will not be eligible from this point on?
Nicole: I am afraid not.
you: I see.
you: Well, I am only up $800 on the life of my account and this seems wrong to me.
you: Please pass this on and I hope they reconsider.
Nicole: You may still play for Fun or for Real without promotions. Continuous play can result in your account becoming eligible for promotions again.
you: Thanks Nicole
you: OK, thanks again Nicole
Nicole: You are very welcome.

So a lousy $800 puts you out of contention for bonuses. I say that is Pathetic! And that is putting it nicely. Here is what Swede said about it. "Those bleeping dirtbags can kiss my bleeping rosy red bleep if they want any more of my bleeping custom. :oops:

So my guess is that now I will find this same situation at all of the Rivals. I currently only have accounts at three but I will check it out and see what I find..............................

And to all of the forum members that I had regaled with tales of what a superior operation they were over at Lion's, well, disregard. :oops:
 

jas2587

Ueber Meister
Joined
Apr 25, 2006
Location
FL
Swede and I are (were) regular players at Lions casino. Over the lifetime of the account which is about 4 months we are up $828.00. Almost always took a bonus of 25%, 40%, 50% or 100%, whichever was on the cashier page. Tonight I went to take the 40% one on the page and got an error message. Went into chat and was told:



So a lousy $800 puts you out of contention for bonuses. I say that is Pathetic! And that is putting it nicely. Here is what Swede said about it. "Those bleeping dirtbags can kiss my bleeping rosy red bleep if they want any more of my bleeping custom. :oops:

So my guess is that now I will find this same situation at all of the Rivals. I currently only have accounts at three but I will check it out and see what I find..............................

And to all of the forum members that I had regaled with tales of what a superior operation they were over at Lion's, well, disregard. :oops:

Uninstalling them bleeping right now bleeping casino

pssttt I dont know how to go red in letters bleep it

Cindy
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
Shortsightedness

Why cut off a player from bonuses? It is not that easy to meet WR, and to discourage a player from depositing seemed shortsighted. It's slots, for cripes sakes...sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are not. If a casino bonus bans a customer who is ahead, they stand no chance of recovering the winnings paid.

Lots of Rivals, Cynthial.

I miss them.
 

winbig

Keep winning this amount.
Joined
Mar 10, 2005
Location
Pennsylvania
Why cut off a player from bonuses? It is not that easy to meet WR, and to discourage a player from depositing seemed shortsighted. It's slots, for cripes sakes...sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are not. If a casino bonus bans a customer who is ahead, they stand no chance of recovering the winnings paid.

Lots of Rivals, Cynthial.

I miss them.

Let's not forget that Rival automatically bans users from getting bonuses, not the individual casinos. This is a system-wide ban.

I'm not saying it's right, because it's not. It's absurdly apparent that those casinos that "go with the flow" don't have a clue to how a casino should be ran, and figure that if Rival says it's the best thing for the casino, then they're not going to do what Rival says. These are the casinos that (as evidenced above, and in many other threads) don't deserve business.

There are a few (very few) Rival's out there that will say FU, Rival, and un-ban these players when there is no evident wrongdoing on the player's end. These are the ones that players will flock to.

And you know what? BONUSES and Customer Support are the two key factors that set Rival casinos apart. It's common knowledge as of recent that ALL RIVAL CASINOS share the same RNG, and CANNOT alter their payouts. So.....why play at the ones that are going to treat a user like some sort of thief? Which is basically what they're doing when you get down to it.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
I don't know how the Rival bonus system or bans work.

However, it is the casino's right to refuse to offer bonuses, just as the player has a right to refuse a bonus which has been offered. As long as the bonus was not personally offered to the player, that is.

Whether or not that is the right move on the casino's part remains to be seen.
 

AudiManinBoro

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 19, 2006
Location
UK
Stick with Slotocash as i believe this subject has been brought up before and Sloto is as far I know entirely independant and have demonstrated in the past that they wont remove a players priviledges such as bonus use purely because they have had a run of good luck :thumbsup:
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
For 800 thats uncalled for. If i could still play rival, only casino i dealt with from learning lessons was sloto. Paid just over the 24 hour period never any problems large cashouts and never bonus banned. And still at end of week had free chips tossed my way. Maybe with this post they will loose a few players and reconsider their terms. Lets hope
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
I have yet to see any rep comment on anyone getting bonus banned at any Rival casino. They have a shitty system that bans you for winning with bonuses on slots and since there is no reasonable way to defend it they try to ignore it and hope people forget.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Why cut off a player from bonuses? It is not that easy to meet WR, and to discourage a player from depositing seemed shortsighted. It's slots, for cripes sakes...sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are not. If a casino bonus bans a customer who is ahead, they stand no chance of recovering the winnings paid.
Spot on - it's a totally bizarre policy.
What they expect is that when they ban someone who has taken bonuses, won & cashed out, that they will come back, deposit & play without a bonus at the same casino. Get real! :mad:

Stick with Slotocash as i believe this subject has been brought up before and Sloto is as far I know entirely independent and have demonstrated in the past that they wont remove a players priviledges such as bonus use purely because they have had a run of good luck :thumbsup:
Yup - I met the owner of Sloto in January at Bryan's party in London and I was assured they never ban people just for winning with bonuses, only for any type of fraudulent activity. Common sense prevails at Sloto! :thumbsup:

KK
 

2young2care

Full Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2008
Location
around the corner

cynthial

Boo
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
Albuquerque
Thanks for all the comments folks. I am of course still miffed over this as Lion's was my favorite place for entertainment for several months now as many of my forum buddies can attest.

A typical discussion with Cynthial went like this:

Lions is best, Blah Blah, great service, Blah Blah 24 hour payouts to web wallet, Blah Blah.

As we all know our length of playtime per deposit ratio can be a bit "streaky" but even during those downward streaks (that sometimes continue for days on end) I continued to prefer their outfit over others and returned to play on a regular basis. This is what caused me to become so incredulous at their decision. I chose to play with them no matter the previous result. Is that not what they want in a loyal customer? I can only surmise that it is only loyal customers who lose that are welcome. What other conclusion is there to surmise?

Oh well, as stated by others, there are plenty of other places out there clamoring for our custom. Chin up Cyn and carry on. :)

P.S. to the casino from the Swedish Peanut

Djvla idioter

P.P.S. from Cynthia

I can not be held responsible for anything said in a foreign language. I only speaka da English :oops:
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
LOL... I can't read Swedish either... but I know how to use Babelfish :D

Jasminebed said:
It's slots, for cripes sakes...sometimes you are lucky and sometimes you are not. If a casino bonus bans a customer who is ahead, they stand no chance of recovering the winnings paid.

Basically, even slots can have a positive expectation if a poorly-designed bonus is given. So technically it matters not whether you play slots, video poker or table games.

A smart casino might refuse a bonus given certain circumstances, such as barely meeting playthrough - I'm not privy to Cynthia's case so this is not directed at her - I'm just giving an example.

However, in the online world, if one casino doesn't give a bonus, there's ten more waiting to give a bonus. This is the fortunate (or unfortunate, depending on how you look at it) situation available to players.

So a casino is always somewhere between a rock and a hard place - offer no bonuses, they get no players. Offer good bonuses, they get bonus abused. Offer selective bonuses - takes a lot of resources and sometimes backfires.

In this particular situation, I'd say Lion Slots is the loser, as Cynthia will simply go play somewhere else. But let's take a hypothetical situation and see what might happen.

Let's theorize that Lion Slots decides that Cynthia can't have that particular bonus, but they will offer her another bonus instead which is a bit more restrictive, such as requiring a higher playthrough, or can only be played on slots, or even on a particular group of slots.

Should Cynthia take this bonus or not? Bear with me Cynthia - don't answer for a while, I think you're going to see some interesting responses here. But of course I will be equally interested in knowing what you would do in this situation :)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I don't know how the Rival bonus system or bans work.

However, it is the casino's right to refuse to offer bonuses, just as the player has a right to refuse a bonus which has been offered. As long as the bonus was not personally offered to the player, that is.

Whether or not that is the right move on the casino's part remains to be seen.

I was under the impression that offers found in the cashier on your account WERE "personal offers", rather than general ones. I recall reading earlier that the offers simply disappeared from the cashier if a player was bonus banned, yet now Rival seems to have "broken" this, so that players now see the bonus, but get an error when they try and claim, and only THEN are they told about the ban.
Now, what I want to know is do you have to DEPOSIT first, and THEN claim - only to get the error message and ban information after the fact?

$800 ahead on slots is pretty poor reasoning for bonus banning a player, but since when have Rival shown even the slightest grasp of casino mathematics with this mass banning system. We shoud be surprised when Rival does NOT bonus ban a player for winning, or "taking too many bonuses".

I suspect that in common with many other businesses, loyalty is not rewarded, it is PUNISHED. Here, stay with the same energy supplier, phone company, broadband, etc, and you can guarantee that as the years go by you are steadily being ripped off more and more. I have found in my experience that online casinos are no different. If you are loyal, some will offer you peanuts, yet will very visibly lavish all sorts of treats on new players. There ARE exceptions, and often this is because a few casino groups have a DECENT VIP scheme that offers a permanent incentive to remain loyal. A subset of this group will even continue to treat you to offers if you are ahead overall.

Any player who believes they have been loyal, but get the bonus brush off, should try ignoring the casino and look elsewhere with a view to becoming that "new player" that will receive all the attention and gifts. If the old casino did indeed value you, but just decided they didn't need to keep treating you so well, they would send a "where have you been" mailer, either by email or snail mail. This MAY include a re-invite to promotions.
Another thing worth considering before ditching the casino altogether is to make a couple of small deposits without the bonuses, but ensure these are CLEARLY both smaller, and less frequent, than what you used to make. This will show then you are still an active player, but must surely be playing with "the rest of the money" at a competitor.
If they still don't bite, then they have called your bluff.
It is not the end though, I have had casinos try to get me back after a year or more, so it looks like they sometimes trawl through dormant accounts and rethink any actions they may have taken that could have driven me away.
It is only casinos where I have been significantly ahead that have never bothered to get me back (or at least make the first move). I am expecting a few to try though, now that the US market has pretty much dried up for many due to restrictive conditions imposed by their software suppliers.

Grand Prive just did:p Not impressed though:p:p

They say that if I just earn 1000 loyalty points and get to Jack level, I will get back all my bonus priviliges.

OK, fair enough, just as soon as they get out of the Meister's pit I will give it a try, and see if they really MEAN it.

The VPL group also seem to be sending me mailers again, but the offers are REALLY bad - last one was that "entry into a wager tournament" dressed up as a chance of winning one among a selection of prizes.

However, to replace these, I have always found new venues, and been made VIP at quite a few.
 

spearmaster

RIP Ted
Joined
Jan 12, 2001
Location
Heaven
I was under the impression that offers found in the cashier on your account WERE "personal offers", rather than general ones.

As I was saying, I don't know how the Rival bonus system works since I haven't played at a Rival for over two years.

If the offer is found when logging into your account and going to the cashier, that is definitely an offer extended to you and should be honored.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
PABinit
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
While Lion's Slot has always treated me well with nice bonuses they must take sloto's lead by not following the bonus-ban system strictly. Absolute Slots, Da Vinci, Pantasia, TIV and Cocoa are some of those who have bonus-banned me and for some of them, I have yet to make a deposit. That's strange because I made hundreds of deposits (many without bonuses) across a string of Rival casinos and the stupid system doesnt that into account and everything remains the same ie still being bonus-banned.

Rob Rival and co. should take a hard look at this. The bonuses are designed with WRs which are not easy to meet in most instances and recently they have come up with up to 50X WRs and non-cashable bonuses so what's the up with treating many players as though they are criminals. The Rival system should be fully capable of tracking players' deposits and should lift the ban when it is noticed that the players concerned are regular players and not there simply for the bonuses. I have never felt so bad about being bonus-banned but some Rival casinos take the cake. They are at liberty to offer different terms and conditions for each bonus but a blanket ban as if the players had done something wrong is totally absurd. I think the system recommends a range of different WRs for different % bonuses. The loosest is 4.8WRs for a 25% bonus, 15WR for a 100% and so on. For a stupid one, there was a 48 WR for a 25% bonus. I think they got the decimal point wrong lol.
 

Swede

Hell is only a word
PABaccred
PABnonaccred
Joined
May 1, 2006
Location
Anaon
Let's not overestimate Rival's bonus system. It is not a complex formula.

Play with bonuses and win= bonus banned.
Play with bonuses and lose= Welcome my friend, step right up and pick your bonus.

Sadly this is true and a poor business practice.
 

zap987

Meister Member
PABnononaccred2
Joined
Jul 22, 2004
Location
Sweden
Rob Rival and co. should take a hard look at this. The bonuses are designed with WRs which are not easy to meet in most instances and recently they have come up with up to 50X WRs and non-cashable bonuses so what's the up with treating many players as though they are criminals.

This is the biggest problem as I see it. Not offering bonuses is one thing, but as soon as the system decides to block you from bonuses you also get lowered withdrawal limits and betting limits.
 

paul02085

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
USA
I havent played online in months (other than my 3Dice Bday bonus, thank u again 3Dice). Toward the end of my play i was not getting any bonus offers from Rival after previously having tons of them all the time. I dont think i was bonus banned but must have been on the verge of it, lol.

Anyway, lately they have been emailing me with really big offers up to 600% and many others like 300% etc. I havent played them but i guess maybe absence makes their heart grow fonder :)
 

cynthial

Boo
Joined
Oct 9, 2006
Location
Albuquerque
If the offer is found when logging into your account and going to the cashier, that is definitely an offer extended to you and should be honored.

That is what I figured also. The offer was on my cashier page as always. Then after speaking with the rep and logging off they removed it. Now when I go in there it says "New Promos are coming soon!"
 

rockycatt

meistercatt
Joined
Oct 26, 2008
Location
Boston
i cnt cashout with a bonus w/r and t&c so i dont take them unless theres no strings attached
and as stated before thank you three dice they got clean gift bonuses :)
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This is the biggest problem as I see it. Not offering bonuses is one thing, but as soon as the system decides to block you from bonuses you also get lowered withdrawal limits and betting limits.

THIS is the big problem, it screams "you are a wrongdoer" to the player, no wonder they are feeling like criminals when they get a system bonus ban. No amount of "hot air" from Rival reps will convince ME that they are not "criminalising" players who find themselves with a bonus ban, as if it really were just a matter of too many bonuses there would NOT be the accompanying lowered limits, which far from encouraging further play would have the effect of driving away the player for fear of having a big win take a long time to receive.

So long as Rival continue to use this silly system with it's automatic criminalisation of players, these threads will continue to appear. It is one thing to stop offering players bonuses, it is quite another to imply that they are "cheats" at the same time through altering these other parameters that imply even their non-bonus play needs close scrutiny for potential "cheating".

Perhaps the best strategy for players is to leave a Rival casino as soon as they get a big win WITH a bonus, and STAY away for a while, and then try a new one. Maybe just ONE good result is not enough to trip a system wide ban, but maybe continuing to take further bonuses after a big win is what offers the system enough data to define the player's playing style as "cheating" or "advantage", with the result being a bonus ban & lowered limits.


When Rival started out, there seemed to be a clear distinction between offers in the cashier once logged on, and bonuses on the website, or even mentioned by other players in forums. I understood that a bonus in the cashier would be a direct personal offer to the player, and in the past players would suddenly see all the offers vanish from their cashier, and when they queried this were told the system had bonus banned them. Now, these latest tales suggest the same is true, but something no longer works properly, and the cashier still displays personal offers after the system has bonus banned a player until support intervene to remove them.

Support seem to be saying that to remove the ban players should continue to demonstrate loyalty by continuing to play, yet others say that the system does NOT take such actions into account, so these is contradiction between various sources. This is very much like the Casino Rewards "con" where their system would lock the reward point account, and players were told to keep on depositing and the system would eventually unlock the rewards. One player deposited THOUSANDS (well, so they claimed), yet it was not down to MONEY, and their rewards were STILL locked.
I found it was TIME, and I deposited NOT A CENT, and my rewards were unlocked when I checked later (around 3 months). Maybe the Rival system applies a timed lock, rather than one based on an (expensive) show of loyalty. I would suggest that bonus banned players simply stop playing at Rival for a couple of months, and see if they get the bonus ban lifted and some "we miss you" mailers.
 

paul02085

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 29, 2002
Location
USA
This is what i believe happened to me as described in my post above so i agree that what vinyl suggests might be the way around this. It took a few months before they started offering bonuses again though.
 
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