dominique
Dormant account
- Joined
- Jul 5, 2003
- Location
- The Boonies
Linus, Spearmaster is exactly right. He is stating bare facts.
dominique said:Why would a government drive decent places out of business and create a criminal element to prey on it's citizens?
Linus said:Spear, the Wire Act is not the only law in the US.
In fact, the MO indictment alleges violations of at least seven different Federal criminal laws - not just the Wire Act.
And that's just Federal law - in the US, gambling is primarily regulated at the state level. And no state allows unlicensed commercial gambling within its borders - whether facilitated by the internet, or otherwise.
Focusing exclusively on the Wire Act simply clouds the issue.
Online gambling is illegal in the US, because no internet site has a license from any US state. Until that changes, internet gambling is, has been, and will be illegal in the US.
Gambling has historically been a creature of state regulation governed by the powers reserved to the states under the Tenth Amendment of the United States Constitution.6 Generally, [g]ambling is illegal unless regulated by an individual state,7 such as Nevada.
An online gambling portal operator, CasinoCity.com... sued the Department of Justice in August, 2004.
The complaint sought a judicial determination confirming Casino Citys constitutional [sic] rights [sic] to engage in lawful commercial free speech... The plaintiffs contention was that the advertisements it runs are protected by the First Amendment right to free speech...
The Central Hudson test, when applied to the facts of the case clearly shows that plaintiff has failed to establish a First Amendment right. It is well-established [sic.] that the First Amendment does not protect the right to advertise illegal activity.
[T]he speech in which plaintiff wishes to engage is misleading because it falsely portrays the image that Internet gambling is legal.
Because plaintiffs speech concerns misleading information and illegal activities, it does not fall within speech that is protected by the First Amendment.
By targeting and punishing advertisers who utilize this type of information, the government reaches its goal of deterring this illegal activity. Thus, the Court finds that the Central Hudson test has been satisfied. Therefore, the Court finds that, even if the plaintiff has standing to bring this action, the plaintiff has no claim for a First Amendment violation.
Generally, “[g]ambling is illegal unless regulated by an individual state,”7 such as Nevada.
Linus said:Mr. Humphrey writes: "The ruling gives no comfort to Casino City; it fires a silver bullet into the heart of the modern-day Draculas who continue to present the intellectual scam that offshore online gambling websites are legally OK. Simply put, the acceptance of sports, casino and poker bets by online websites violates numerous federal laws and the anti-gambling statutes of all 50 states."
spearmaster said:This is not a fact, this is an opinion. There is no reference to relevant Federal law, nor even any State laws.
This is tantamount to saying that everything which is not covered by law is thus illegal. It is no better than the DoJ's "opinion" that online gambling is illegal.
The Casino City test is a case asserting the right to free speech as guaranteed under the First Amendment - it is NOT a case which attempts to determine the legality or illegality of online gambling and cannot in any case be used as "past precedent" in a case directly related to online gambling.
Again, what you have presented is an opinion of the judge, rather than a ruling - under no circumstances has the judge RULED that online gambling is illegal. Were he to have actually considered the issue of the legality of online gambling, he could have come to any of a number of conclusions but he would have had a hard time proving anything other than the fact that the Wire Act bans sports wagering by wire communication.
The two cases you have presented are opinions. Judges have already ruled on the application of the Wire Act to non-sports betting activities and determined that said activities are NOT covered by the Wire Act.
As there is no other Federal law which governs anything related to the placing of a wager of any sort, it must be held that online gambling is NOT illegal according to Federal law.
Individual states may or may not have laws which relate to online gambling (or all forms of gambling) - the mere fact that some states have declared internet gambling illegal supports the position that, without such a law, internet gambling would NOT be illegal.
The law is there to determine what is ILLEGAL. Law does not cover the LEGALITY of any situation - that is, if I pick my nose, and the law does not directly cover this activity, or any other form of this activity (using a Q-tip instead of my finger, for example), it cannot be considered illegal.
In the US, you have to be licensed to carry on certain trades or businesses. That applies to, for example, being a lawyer (you have to have a license to practice law), and to commercial gambling.
Whether something's illegal may be a matter of opinion, but some people's opinions count more than others - for example, those of judges and prosecutors.
There are half a dozen or more different Federal laws that govern wagering.
The MO indictment, for example, alleges violations of at least 7 different Federal laws.
All states have laws that govern commercial gambling. In no state is it legal, unless state-sanctioned (state lotteries), or state-licensed (casinos).
In the US, you have to be licensed to carry on certain trades or businesses. That applies to, for example, being a lawyer (you have to have a license to practice law), and to commercial gambling.
You have to pay income tax even on income from illegal sources. Some states, I believe Arizona is one of them, have a tax on marijuana.spearmaster said:Please state the laws which are related to wagering. RICO is certainly NOT one of them. Tax evasion is also not related to wagering. Wagering taxes imply that wagering is LEGAL - if illegal, how the hell can they tax it?
GrandMaster said:You have to pay income tax even on income from illegal sources. Some states, I believe Arizona is one of them, have a tax on marijuana.
GrandMaster said:If I have a friend in the Stateline Casino in West Wendover, Nevada, and I am standing across the street in Wendover, Utah, and I am shouting instructions to him how to bet, am I gambling in Utah or Nevada?
If I am in Costa Rica and offer legal advice to US residents, do I have to be licensed in the US? Do my clients commit a crime by taking legal advice from me?
spearmaster said:If a judge renders an opinion but not a ruling, and another judge makes a ruling based on his opinion, whose opinion should I believe?
There's no point in going around in circles. A Federal judge has ALREADY ruled that online casino gambling does NOT fall within the confines of the Wire Act.
Please state the laws which are related to wagering. RICO is certainly NOT one of them.
Tax evasion is also not related to wagering. Wagering taxes imply that wagering is LEGAL - if illegal, how the hell can they tax it?
Let's not try to skirt the obvious - the only law which governs the legality of wagering in any shape or form is the Wire Act.
Did you actually research this?
Did it occur to you that in some states, what is not considered gambling may be considered gambling in another? For example, in California stud poker is prohibited - but draw poker is not. Some states define lotteries as gambling, others do not. Some states even considered video poker terminals as games of skill (and thus not gambling) if I am not mistaken. Some states allow poker in private places (ie. the home) but NOT in public places.
I think that your claim above is a bit premature, or maybe just a bit too general.
The businesses are located outside the US. The fact that one can make a phone call or connect to an overseas website is completely irrelevant to a business license in the US.
For example, you can legally buy pot in the Netherlands - by phone call, or by visiting a website. You have not broken the law in either country.
You WILL break the laws of the US, however, if you import the pot. But the law does NOT govern the purchase of the pot in a foreign country from a foreign-based business.
Simple as that. BetOnSports is legally licensed as a bookmaker under the laws of the United Kingdom. It does not require a license in the US in order to operate its business.
However, if it accepts sports wagers from Americans, it can then be considered in breach of US law because wagers on sporting events are explicitly prohibited by the Wire Act. This does NOT apply to casino gambling according to a Federal judge.
Another case in point - lotteries may not be sold interstate - that is to say, you cannot buy a lottery ticket issued by the state next door from your home state unless your home state also participates in this lottery. Yet you can look in any Time or Newsweek and find ads for lotteries in Spain, Liechtenstein, Switzerland, Germany etc. You may do this by sending in the order form in the magazine, or you can call in a purchase by phone. Is this not illegal?
I repeat again: The U.S. Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals has ruled that the Wire Act applies only to sports betting and not other types of online gambling. The Supreme Court has not officially ruled on the meaning of the Federal Wire Act as it pertains to onlin[e gambling.
"If online gambling is illegal, why are there three Bills waiting to go to the Senate trying to make online gambling illegal?"
dominique said:Mitch Garber, PartyGaming's boss questioned the US' position on internet gaming, asking:
dominique said:Mitch Garber, PartyGaming's boss questioned the US' position on internet gaming, asking:
Linus said:Apparantly, it's just illegal enough to keep Mitch Garber out of the US, but not quite so illegal as to keep him from taking Americans' money.