Bitstarz vs KarinaLK

goatwack

Former IBF & ABC Intercontinental Bonanza Holder
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
Imagine having a free arbitration service whereby someone chases up players' concerns and disputes like mad and tries to find a favourable outcome on behalf of said players, only to have some still not happy with it!

Almost as if it's at great cost and pains to the claimants/ people doing a PAB, when really they're free to spend £££hundreds on lawyers chasing dead ends!
 

ternur

Deep in the Mosh'sh Pit
webby
CAG
mm3
Joined
Nov 25, 2004
Location
Finland
Imagine having a free arbitration service whereby someone chases up players' concerns and disputes like mad and tries to find a favourable outcome on behalf of said players, only to have some still not happy with it!

Almost as if it's at great cost and pains to the claimants/ people doing a PAB, when really they're free to spend £££hundreds on lawyers chasing dead ends!
I agree.

But reported for assuming that lawyers chase dead ends. It's service industry after all, if the client wants something done, you better do it. Just use a good disclaimer or sufficient contractual protection to cover you ass :p
 

goatwack

Former IBF & ABC Intercontinental Bonanza Holder
CAG
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Location
Londonia
I agree.

But reported for assuming that lawyers chase dead ends. It's service industry after all, if the client wants something done, you better do it. Just use a good disclaimer or sufficient contractual protection to cover you ass :p
You're like the legal profession's equivalent of a pissed-up My Cousin Vinny

Would still hire
 

pinnit2014

Meister Member
PABnoaccred
mm1
Joined
Dec 13, 2014
Location
Glasgow and Home - N Ireland
I agree.

But reported for assuming that lawyers chase dead ends. It's service industry after all, if the client wants something done, you better do it. Just use a good disclaimer or sufficient contractual protection to cover you ass :p
Are disclaimers worth much? I mean, i sign one saying my cars road worthy for claiming mileage from work etcwhen, in reality, i have to stop the car Fred Flintstone style.
 

Jhonson90

Full Member
MM
Joined
Apr 25, 2015
Location
Eurozone
I think that in order to have the satisfaction of being defended by Brian or Max one day I will open a fake PAB in agreement with the casino:).
I signed up here 5 years ago just to feel more comfortable in the casino jungle, knowing that there were competent people who would help me if I had the need and so it was.
When I write competent people I am not referring only to Brian and
Max but also to other users older than me who give precious
advice every day to new arrivals.
Regards.
 

danofthewibble

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2018
Location
UK
Why has this particular thread drawn so much ire compared to other similar ones? Someone with an axe to grind creating sock puppets? (Not the OP, I add).
 

Playford7

Meister Member
MM
Joined
Jul 10, 2016
Location
North east England
I think that in order to have the satisfaction of being defended by Brian or Max one day I will open a fake PAB in agreement with the casino:).
I signed up here 5 years ago just to feel more comfortable in the casino jungle, knowing that there were competent people who would help me if I had the need and so it was.
When I write competent people I am not referring only to Brian and
Max but also to other users older than me who give precious
advice every day to new arrivals.
Regards.
Your welcome, always here to help sir.
 

irish-ranger

Senior Member
MM
Joined
Sep 1, 2018
Location
United Kingdom
Good going - first post is a troll post. :rolleyes:

You are full of crap. You haven't a clue, and we publish our findings for our PABs after they are complete - and the players who had submitted them are free to talk about it afterwards as well.

I have been dealing with casino complaints for over 20 years, and I can pretty much tell when casinos are bullshiting me - Max has been doing this for about the same period of time, and knows what I know.

And we can also pretty much tell when players are full of poo poo. Like the comments in your post - full of poo. LOL
Come on man “full off poo” that’s the polite American in ya poking its wee head up say it as it’s meant to be said “full off mad dog shite”:cheers:
 

KarinaLK

Newbie member
PABnoaccred
Joined
Jul 27, 2020
Location
St Petersburg
the pab takes how long? I have wait maybe 2+ week hear no things about that pab.
do you know how to submit complaint to curacao?
 

dionysus

Contest Manager
Staff member
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
the pab takes how long? I have wait maybe 2+ week hear no things about that pab.
do you know how to submit complaint to curacao?
From what I understand, sometimes PABs can be resolved rather quickly; sometimes they require more work.

Hang tight.
I'm certain @maxd will update as able and gives every PAB all due consideration :thumbsup:
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
the pab takes how long? I have wait maybe 2+ week hear no things about that pab.
do you know how to submit complaint to curacao?
Regarding how long things are taking see Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures items 2.5 and 2.6.

As to submitting a complaint to Curacao that's easy: write your complaint on a piece of paper, crunch it up, set it on fire and hope that the smoke makes it to Curacao and they care enough to decipher what was written. Obviously this is a pointless exercise but hey, at least you get to play with fire for a minute or two.

Seriously, Curacao has been the big black hole of the industry for decades: they don't care about players, they don't want to hear from players and they will ignore any player that does manage to contact them.

There are a few details that add a bit of nuance to this situation -- look into Master Licenses, 8048/JAZ in particular if you are so inclined (or read this: Curaçao and Their Four Master License Holders) -- but the basic story I've given is generally applicable.

TBF Curacao has recently started to pretend they care about player complaints but there is zero evidence to show that that is actually true or that they do anything but support whatever decision the casino has already made.

The bottom line is that Curacao as a licensing body is useless, or worse. For the most part we are left with nothing more, or less, than hoping that the individual casino operator is half decent. Some are, many are not. In this particular case I've had good results with this casino and the group that runs it, at least over the last year or so. That's a good sign, take it for what it is worth and let me do my job.
 
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maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Ok, I've reached a conclusion in the PAB and the OP was informed. I had invited them to make final comments but none have been forthcoming.

The bottom line is that the player failed KYC -- on a number of points -- and there was ample evidence to believe that someone else was playing under the player's identity.

The casino agreed to return the deposits that had been made in the player's name. This process has been completed and the case is now closed.
 

BitStarz

Accredited Casino BitStarz Representative
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Location
Malta
Thanks @maxd for giving us a fair chance to explain our side.

I'd be a bigger moron than I already am if I came out here and said that we always do things
correctly and we never make mistakes. BitStarz does occasionally, and so do I, but we're always
happy to revert our decisions if we were wrong and make amends.

The casino isn't always right, but neither is the player sometimes. But I really appreciate
being able to give our five cents. Because everyone can sign off on a fair trial.

A casino that would just confiscate money from their players with very little evidence or none at all, won't stay in business very long.

So yeah, without sounding more like some kind of suck-up, thank you for this.
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
Although the PAB is complete I feel I need to add a few words in response to this (posted up-thread):
... Let me predict how this thread and PAB will end. Maxd will inform the OP and everybody else that he got enough evidence from the casino (evidence which cannot be made available to ANYBODY else) and the OP indeed violated the rules XYZ of the casino. Hope that I am wrong but the way it goes now leaves no other options in my opinion. ...
Anyone even passingly familiar with the PAB service knows that we do not nor have we ever published case evidence especially when doing so would have a detrimental impact on the casino's ability to pursue cases of player fraud. All of which applies to this particular case.

Non-disclosure regarding case evidence is central to the PAB process because it allows casinos to share information with us that they are not comfortable sharing in public for privacy, security and/or risk assessment (fraud detection) reasons. If you don't like that that's fine, find an arbitration service you do like and go there for your complaints resolution needs.

If on the other hand you care to spend a little time looking into these things I think you'll find that the PAB process has a good reputation and we've got decades of experience handling player complaints.

So yes, pick your service of choice and go there, by all means, but don't come here trolling us and our readership because of some undisclosed agenda. Anyone who appears out of nowhere, knows a lot about player complaints in general and the PAB process in particular, has nothing good to say and is lobbying hard for one particular player and against the whole PAB process all based on their opinion or one person's evidence is pretty suspect IMO. Our experience has been that 9 times out of 10 they are someone who has previously been on the site, didn't get whatever it was they wanted and is now back under a new identity to burn the house down. Excuse us if we don't allow that to happen.
 
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