Bitstarz vs KarinaLK

bowlingbob

Full Member
Joined
May 1, 2008
Location
usa
So if I'm understanding correctly because the Russian ladies English is not so good Bitstarz coerced her into saying the bitcoin came from someone else in order to steal her winnings? Bitstarz are crooks here. She won the money fair and square but because its such a large sum they had to find a way to confiscate it. Typical Bitstarz... They've been finding ways for years to not pay players. I remember countless stories on bitcointalk years ago how they stole players money for any reason they could find. How they ever got accredited is beyond me. I've avoided them like the plague.
 

Robert Rabbit

Newbie member
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Jun 21, 2020
Location
UK
So if I'm understanding correctly because the Russian ladies English is not so good Bitstarz coerced her into saying the bitcoin came from someone else in order to steal her winnings? Bitstarz are crooks here. She won the money fair and square but because its such a large sum they had to find a way to confiscate it. Typical Bitstarz... They've been finding ways for years to not pay players. I remember countless stories on bitcointalk years ago how they stole players money for any reason they could find. How they ever got accredited is beyond me. I've avoided them like the plague.
So to recap, you don't use them, have avoided them for years but have decided they are crooks? That's like me saying I know the guy down the road sells dodgy motors although I have never bought one off of him, because I read it somewhere.

I am not defending Bitstarz if they are in the wrong, I am merely pointing out that your logic is flawed and based on assumptions rather than fact
 

abuyang

Registered User
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Location
Lanna, Thailand
So to recap, you don't use them, have avoided them for years but have decided they are crooks? That's like me saying I know the guy down the road sells dodgy motors although I have never bought one off of him, because I read it somewhere.

I am not defending Bitstarz if they are in the wrong, I am merely pointing out that your logic is flawed and based on assumptions rather than fact
So until Bitstarz confiscates 40000$ from him he cannot have an opinion about them? It is much smarter and cheaper to use other people's experiences IMHO.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
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the land of snow and maple syrup
So until Bitstarz confiscates 40000$ from him he cannot have an opinion about them? It is much smarter and cheaper to use other people's experiences IMHO.
if you choose to use slanderous terms, youd best have the means to back them up

there's a very good reason we have PABs in place :)
 

abuyang

Registered User
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Location
Lanna, Thailand
if you choose to use slanderous terms, youd best have the means to back them up

there's a very good reason we have PABs in place :)
I have heard the full story from the OP. She has also added the copies of the emails. At the same time, the casino rep preferred not to comment on the case in any way. So I base my opinion on the facts available at the moment.
P.S. I haven't used any slanderous terms.
 

dionysus

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the land of snow and maple syrup
I have heard the full story from the OP. She has also added the copies of the emails. At the same time, the casino rep preferred not to comment on the case in any way. So I base my opinion on the facts available at the moment.
P.S. I haven't used any slanderous terms.
that's rather the point; youve seen one side :)


reps often don't respond for very good reasons, hence the PAB process


granted, not always; but generally speaking, there's rhyme and reason
but give the process a chance :thumbsup:
 

Najasaki

Keep It Simple, Stupid.
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Aug 24, 2010
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Your Happy Place
So until Bitstarz confiscates 40000$ from him he cannot have an opinion about them? It is much smarter and cheaper to use other people's experiences IMHO.

Bitstarz does pay out hefty winnings, I assure you.. I don't think that the casino plays duck-duck-goose to
pick the lucky person that gets paid after landing a huge win. If they see a strange pattern
with a player, they ask questions, as does any casino.. If those questions lead them to believe that the player broke a term in their conditions, they won't pay. The PAB is what the player has as a "judicial court system" to get a "fair trial". Any attorney/public defender would ask their clients not to discuss the case. yes?

At least there's Casinomeister's PAB process to help. Where else could the OP run to for assistance?
Definitely not you :)
 

dionysus

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This may..or perhaps it wont....seem apt.

You go to a large restaurant chain.
It has Michelin stars and grand reviews.
So you eat there and you enjoy it, or maybe you don't.

But down the road, there's a cart; maybe it's fish n chips or kebabs or hot dogs.
Maybe the food inspection label is faded, is it legit?
Perhaps, it's best you don't look....too..closely behind the food curtain? But perhaps it's utterly pristine

But is the food good? Perhaps it's the best darned X food you;ve eaten.
And reviews are bloody stellar.


Point is
Read reviews.
Make an educated choice and decision
Do your homework
Read reviews and ask friends

And here? You've recourse should your 'food' experience not meet your standards
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
I have heard the full story from the OP. ...

That is exactly the problem. You haven't heard the full story until you've heard both sides and seen the supporting evidence. The problem is that casinos are generally not fond of sharing their private details in public. In order to get the full story you need full access to both sides and that's what arbitration, and the PAB process, is all about.

If you don't like the PAB process or how it works that's fine, more power to you, you are perfectly free to not use it. But it is the service we offer to our readership and you can't deny that it has served the community very well for almost two decades.

Your criticisms have been heard and are duly noted but until you can offer people something better and workable you're not really contributing much to getting player problems solved.
 
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abuyang

Registered User
Joined
Aug 5, 2019
Location
Lanna, Thailand
The way I see it... The casino's actions were explained quite well in their email to the player (see attached file).

Here is an excerpt:

During verification, we came to the conclusion that the person in whose name the account was registered was not a direct player because during verification erroneous data was provided regarding the selection of games and the gameplay.


Assuming the casino was not lying in its explanation to the player, all we need now is to understand how exactly the casino staff came to a conclusion about the OP not being a direct player. The one and only argument which they have provided to the OP was "the wrong answers provided during the video verification regarding the game selection and gameplay". If this is the only argument the casino has in its defend then the player has to be paid in full as soon as possible. Because any player has a right NOT to remember a single thing about his gameplay. IMHO.
 

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maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Location
Saltirelandia
The way I see it... The casino's actions were explained quite well in their email to the player ...

That may be why you are posting in a forum rather than running an arbitration service.

The casino's case and the evidence they hold is not limited to, nor likely to be shared in full, in an email to the player.

You want simple answers, there usually are none. A significant majority of cases are judgement calls based on all the available evidence, whether that be given publicly or privately.

If you're offering to be the OP's arbitrator that's fine and between you two. Until I hear otherwise the OP has asked us to work on their behalf, and I am.
 

abuyang

Registered User
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Location
Lanna, Thailand
That may be why you are posting in a forum rather than running an arbitration service.

The casino's case and the evidence they hold is not limited to, nor likely to be shared in full, in an email to the player.

You want simple answers, there usually are none. A significant majority of cases are judgement calls based on all the available evidence, whether that be given publicly or privately.

If you're offering to be the OP's arbitrator that's fine and between you two. Until I hear otherwise the OP has asked us to work on their behalf, and I am.
So not only us, the public, will never be informed about the "real" reasons for the casino's action but it looks like the OP herself will never know why she got her 40k confiscated. And the reasons which the casino gave to the player in the explanatory email - those are just words without real meaning behind them. Hmm...
Let me predict how this thread and PAB will end. Maxd will inform the OP and everybody else that he got enough evidence from the casino (evidence which cannot be made available to ANYBODY else) and the OP indeed violated the rules XYZ of the casino. Hope that I am wrong but the way it goes now leaves no other options in my opinion.

P.S. I have no connection to the OP. I am just very disturbed by the fact casino may confiscate tens of thousands of dollars on absolutely ridiculous claims.
 
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maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
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Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
So not only us, the public, will never be informed about the "real" reasons for the casino's action ...

You are rather prone to making accusations and insinuations about the faults of the PAB system with no mention of the good that the process does and the service that it offers to players in need. It sounds very much like a personal agenda you've got going here and not much else. Why is that?

... it looks like the OP also will never know why she got her 40k confiscated. ...

The OP here, like almost all the PABers that use the service, will be given the reasons. Whether they choose to accept those reasons as justification for the actions taken against them by the casinois another matter.

The bottom line is that you are implying none too subtily that the PAB service is completely sealed and no one, not even the PABer, knows anything about the conclusion reached. That is patently false. Again, you are either unaware of, or are willfully ignoring, the way the PABs actually work for the sake of grinding the axe you appear to have against the PAB service.

And the reasons which the casino gave to the player - those are just words without any meaning. Hmm...

Obviously they are part of the case but no, that's not an entire case in and of itself. Nor should it be.

Let me predict how this thread and PAB will end. ...

It appears very much as though you are attempting to sabotage the reputation of the PAB process and Casinomeister in general, largely with misinformation I might add. I repeat what's already been said, if what we do so offends you you're welcome to go elsewhere.
 

Fellover

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 31, 2020
Location
Eu
Troll comments - read up a bit on the history of PABs before making bullshit comments like this
Obviously casino will always win a PAB unless it's a small amount that they pay rather than fabricate proofs.
Because it is very easy for bitstarz say anything and they side will be trusted and the victim is always considered wrong before even any evidence. And all casinos proof provided to maxd is secret and automatically accepted as gospel
 

Oscar Arnhem

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 15, 2017
Location
arnhem
Obviously casino will always win a PAB unless it's a small amount that they pay rather than fabricate proofs.
Because it is very easy for bitstarz say anything and they side will be trusted and the victim is always considered wrong before even any evidence. And all casinos proof provided to maxd is secret and automatically accepted as gospel


Welcome,nice first post
 

Casinomeister

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Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
Obviously casino will always win a PAB unless it's a small amount that they pay rather than fabricate proofs.
Because it is very easy for bitstarz say anything and they side will be trusted and the victim is always considered wrong before even any evidence. And all casinos proof provided to maxd is secret and automatically accepted as gospel
Good going - first post is a troll post. :rolleyes:

You are full of crap. You haven't a clue, and we publish our findings for our PABs after they are complete - and the players who had submitted them are free to talk about it afterwards as well.

I have been dealing with casino complaints for over 20 years, and I can pretty much tell when casinos are bullshiting me - Max has been doing this for about the same period of time, and knows what I know.

And we can also pretty much tell when players are full of poo poo. Like the comments in your post - full of poo. LOL
 
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