Bitstarz denied and stole 4 btc from me

[lockinlove]

Well, Obviously if that guy can't respect our friendly terms, nor can't listen simple advice from our friendly Site with people who actually try to help him......he failed to read/apply ANY of the advice we offered him, then proceed to make Multiple account, Clearly....he probably has done the same at BitStarz.


The truth is, as soon he admitted he registered with Fake info and Deposited for 8 months straight....the case was close. (very close to some money laundering tactics that some group use, until they win big)


As for Everyone who think that Casino should do a ID/IP check on everyone before they register to prevent this such situation.......it's way too much time demanding with the large amounts of FAKE peoples who create tons of account with fake ID/name, verification would be Hell.


BitStarz is one of the first to apply a real time Block/Protection if you try to bet over 5$ with a Bonus money, this mean, even if you try to go higher then 5$ bet, it block you and gave back your bet.......Not like some others casino that *if* you accidentally bet over 5$ during your wagering time.......if ever you win BIG, you lose all your money because you have bet ONE time over 5$


Nope, BitStarz terms are Solid and Fair with great customers services! Great Job Olle!

Disagree. Casino's Do have that protection in place. I have come across dozens of casinos where even on sign up if I use my last name, address, email address or phone number it will tell me it already exists therefore letting me know I have an account on one of their groups. I have also come across many who have placed a cookie or track my ip. So there are dozens of ways casino's go about this.

Secondly bitzstars is not one of the first to protect players from the max bet rule.

As for the player in question, I could care less after how he conducted himself in here. It turned into an awkward disaster. But hopefully the casino will make some changes still

 

[Casinomeister]

I think being able to detect multiple accounts in the one casino should be a pretty straightforward thing to do - some places like All British Casino can do this across the group of companies (All Irish didn't let me sign up as i had a ABC account - unbeknown to me I wasn't allowed 2 in the same group. Luckily it was caught at that point otherwise, albeit innocently, i'd have been in breach when it came to withdraw!)

I think what gets some people is that all these checks come at the end of the process, so why not shift it to the front.

Kudo's to the rep though for engaging though - and for the max bet, which i was unaware of (not that i can play from the UK

It can be tricky at times, but we have a pretty good system in the forum. So far, this guy has opened 4 accounts, all with (different email addresses by the way). So we know he has a number of email addresses at his disposal. I mean seriously - how many email addresses does the average Joe use. I have two - and I've been on the Internet since 1996.

 

[Tirilej]

It can be tricky at times, but we have a pretty good system in the forum. So far, this guy has opened 4 accounts, all with (different email addresses by the way). So we know he has a number of email addresses at his disposal. I mean seriously - how many email addresses does the average Joe use. I have two - and I've been on the Internet since 1996.

That was what I was thinking too.
This guy obviously have some difficulties to control himself, and to take his time reading any rules. When it comes to casino he do know how to sign up, make a deposit and play so he can't be totally stupid though.

In this case the question is if he used the exact same username, email and address. If not then he did break the rules and should not be paid.
You can't always blame the casinos for everything.

 

[Kelly Jo]

You can't always blame the casinos for everything.

Online gambling is more than a little complex, yet there is a compelling tendency to pass judgement or find fault with one side or the other. We don't do ourselves any favors by following this pattern.

I enjoy playing at Bitstarz and have enough faith in the way they operate that I have referred more than one friend in their direction. That doesn't mean that I totally agree with every practice they employ. Addressing an issue that has been raised by more than one member in this thread (Specifically the continued acceptance of deposits when there is suspicion of fraudulent activity) should not be seen as an attack on this casino, but rather an opportunity to address it full on.

 

[Tirilej]

Online gambling is more than a little complex, yet there is a compelling tendency to pass judgement or find fault with one side or the other. We don't do ourselves any favors by following this pattern.

I enjoy playing at Bitstarz and have enough faith in the way they operate that I have referred more than one friend in their direction. That doesn't mean that I totally agree with every practice they employ. Addressing an issue that has been raised by more than one member in this thread (Specifically the continued acceptance of deposits when there is suspicion of fraudulent activity) should not be seen as an attack on this casino, but rather an opportunity to address it full on.

No one would be more happy than I if every casino could immediately spot a fraudster, or someone who signed up a second time. I also know that it's not always possible and that many fraudsters are very good at what they're doing.
I didn't see anywhere that they had spotted the other accounts made by this player already before he tried to cash out this win. Where did he say that?

 

[Kelly Jo]

I didn't see anywhere that they had spotted the other accounts made by this player already before he tried to cash out this win. Where did he say that?

Notice how at 531 am when he says it will take 12 hours for them to review docs then I one min later after what I said they took my money then less than five min I think my account was disabled .

That's pretty quick for not having prior knowledge.
I sourced another instance in a previous post in this thread.

 

[Kelly Jo]

Moved discussion to pm. )

 

[Tirilej]

That's pretty quick for not having prior knowledge.
I sourced another instance in a previous post in this thread.

Exactly! They didn't spot it until they checked but reacted immediately then.

 

[Kelly Jo]

I sent you a pm. ))))

 

[stokes]

They did collect all the information well before they used later when the cashout was made.

They collected all the details the accounts were registered with (whether they were the same or not it was not revealed), they did IP checks and browser fingerprinting each time a login was made.

The crosschecks should be made instantly and don't bullshit me with the amount of fraudsters.

It can be done. Like Videoslots did not allow me to play from Spain in my holiday (IP check).

 

[Glory Chesshire]

bitstarz cashout

They did collect all the information well before they used later when the cashout was made.

They collected all the details the accounts were registered with (whether they were the same or not it was not revealed), they did IP checks and browser fingerprinting each time a login was made.

The crosschecks should be made instantly and don't bullshit me with the amount of fraudsters.

It can be done. Like Videoslots did not allow me to play from Spain in my holiday (IP check).

i agree and what are they saying that some accounts will win more than others. Even if they did see there were more than one account as long as there was no bonus fraud going on then they should payout.

Also when you play with bitcoin its supposed to be anonymous and when you sign up at bitstarz you dont even need to fill in the profile where the name is or the country. you only need an email so i dont know why they would confiscate a players win then.

 

[Slottery]

Exactly correct. But if a casino knows someone ill never get paid if they win, they are freerolling the players.. Its simple to put an ip check in place at signup.. Would solve alot of problems, but then any casino cant freeroll a player

That could block hell a lot people as these days people really are using public wifi:s, mobile data etc... In my experience most of the casinos don't really mind that two people from same family are playing their site and sharing ip. Clear abusing of bonuses etc... can be quite easily be seen from game play patterns etc..... As long these accounts will be 100% separated beginning from payment methods, i don't believe that there are many casinos who would like to use that same ip address card without very heavy investigation and very educational "guess" about bonus abuse.

At least some casino groups do automatic crosschecks which block account right away if created with identical details where too many points are matching, not all of them though. Then there are people who are creating crazy amount of accounts just to use welcome spins even know very well never getting any cents even winning.

I'm with casinos in this that you are not required to complete KYC at the point of registration as that would make it really slow process and as it should be quite common knowledge (or if you play first time online, then might be worth to check T&Cs) that casinos don't allow more than one account per user. If you are not sure you have one, quite many casinos have 24/7 support or if you email them you usually get reply if you have account created with your details quite shortly if your memory don't serve you well.

It's pity that there these few abusers, fraudsters etc.... Therefore casinos are bit forced to add to their T&C:s almost that "We can do what ever we want and when ever we want without giving you explanation". But good guys really don't have to worry when playing accredited casinos.

Can say that confiscating winnings in these good casinos is very last resort to take against player and they don't do it without valid reason. Then we get new ranting topic here and usually topics started with this kind of tone (only in page 3-4 haven't got to end yet ) don't really have the case, if they would, there is PAB and then of course MGA, UKGC.... official ways to claim complaint and get their money.

Bit off topic, sorry, got excited about my first post here, been reading some years but just now registered myself Been working in industry in more than one casino group so have sights how things are dealt with and also numerous stories about creativity of fraudster and abusers

 

[alexking12k]

In my opinon here it seems from the screenshots that he did win and bitstarz does seem to be not paying him. I can see how he didn't go buy rules but I still think bitstarz should pay a player if they win. This makes me think they should be in the rogue casino section. I would like to know the outcome of this one if you can keep me posted.

You said it yourself here: "player didn't go by the rules". Break the rules and get banned and most likely don't get paid.

 

[Kelly Jo]

You said it yourself here: "player didn't go by the rules". Break the rules and get banned and most likely don't get paid.

Again... The concern voiced by many members in this thread is that the casino accepted deposits from a player knowing full well that if this player happened to win, that same player would not get paid. The player has claimed to have made eight deposits. In case you didn't catch the significance of this... allow me to say it once more. Eight deposits.

 

[Tirilej]

Again... The concern voiced by many members in this thread is that the casino accepted deposits from a player knowing full well that if this player happened to win, that same player would not get paid. The player has claimed to have made eight deposits. In case you didn't catch the significance of this... allow me to say it once more. Eight deposits.

So you really think that they are checking all sign ups and are seeing which ones already have an account. Knowing that they are going to deposit and use bonuses again on this account too. Then they just wait for the guy to win so they can deny it? Bonusfree deposit or not doesn't matter.
I don't understand why so many believe that they are fully aware of every single player and the fact that they have, like in this case multiple accounts, before the player have cashed out and are asked to verify himself.

This player went to chat and asked if it would be ok to cash out even though he had given false details. He also had multiple accounts. When is that ok?
I don't know if the player posted the full chat in here but he did in another thread with another of his multiple cm-accounts.

Also keep in mind you people from the US that if they had those IP checks at sign up, or asked people to KYC before they deposit, that you maybe wouldn't be able to play there then. It can be something to think about.

 

[TheAddict]

Again... The concern voiced by many members in this thread is that the casino accepted deposits from a player knowing full well that if this player happened to win, that same player would not get paid. The player has claimed to have made eight deposits. In case you didn't catch the significance of this... allow me to say it once more. Eight deposits.

Valid point tbh. Id hate to imagine how many people in similar situations at various casinos, who made multiple decent sized deposits , maybe 7 in a row. But then before the 8th decided randomly to not bother with online slots while losing a few K quickly .. and to live forever after not knowing they had 0 chance of a withdrawing should they have won anyway.

 

[Kelly Jo]

I don't understand why so many believe that they are fully aware of every single player and the fact that they have, like in this case multiple accounts, before the player have cashed out and are asked to verify himself.


Also keep in mind you people from the US that if they had those IP checks at sign up, or asked people to KYC before they deposit, that you maybe wouldn't be able to play there then. It can be something to think about.

How long have you been gambling online?

That doesn't make any sense. They DO have them. Most sites won't let you get to the registration page if you're from a prohibited region. And if you're talking about Bitcoin Casinos,
that makes even less sense because if you're from the US and you haven't generated any red flags, you don't have to submit any personal information to cashout. None. Nada. Zero. Zip. That's how Bitcoin works. But if you've been naughty... They'll know. Because they're watching. Bet.

 

[Tirilej]

How long have you been gambling online?

That doesn't make any sense. They DO have them. Most sites won't let you get to the registration page if you're from a prohibited region. And if you're talking about Bitcoin Casinos,
that makes even less sense because if you're from the US and you haven't generated any red flags, you don't have to submit any personal information to cashout. None. Nada. Zero. Zip. That's how Bitcoin works. But if you've been naughty... They'll know. Because they're watching. Bet.

Online since 2008 and when I started there was mostly players from the US posting in this forum. I'm well aware of US story when it comes to gambling online.
Actually when you made that other post yesterday I had written a long pm to you explaining why you could play at this casino, but when I read that post I threw it away again. I'll see if it got autosaved.

They''ll know. Because they're watching. Bet.

That sounded like you really have an insight in how casinos are working, and how their programs are functioning...not.

 

[Casinomeister]

Again... The concern voiced by many members in this thread is that the casino accepted deposits from a player knowing full well that if this player happened to win, that same player would not get paid. The player has claimed to have made eight deposits. In case you didn't catch the significance of this... allow me to say it once more. Eight deposits.

No need to be so pointed. You don't have all of the facts, and neither do I since I shit-canned the chance for his PAB because of the player's obnoxious behavior.

But if he was from the States, he would have seen this in the T&Cs "If you are a player from Spain, France, the UK, US or any of its states, you won't be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins." So the casino - as far as I can tell - does not take bets from the US.

My gut feeling tells me that he is not in the States by looking at his CM profile, posting behavior, and language. He is just using an VPN to cloak his whereabouts, and is guilty of opening several accounts at Bitstarz like he did here.

To test this, I used an US IP address to set up a phony account at Bitstarz. I only got as far as verifying my account and filling out the personal info in my account section. US is not offered as a country - neither is France, the UK, Spain, etc. So he did not sign up from the States using Bitcoin.

 

[Kelly Jo]

No need to be so pointed. You don't have all of the facts, and neither do I since I shit-canned the chance for his PAB because of the player's obnoxious behavior.

But if he was from the States, he would have seen this in the T&Cs "If you are a player from Spain, France, the UK, US or any of its states, you won't be allowed to play real money wagering games including bitcoins." So the casino - as far as I can tell - does not take bets from the US.

My gut feeling tells me that he is not in the States by looking at his CM profile, posting behavior, and language. He is just using an VPN to cloak his whereabouts, and is guilty of opening several accounts at Bitstarz like he did here.

To test this, I used an US IP address to set up a phony account at Bitstarz. I only got as far as verifying my account and filling out the personal info in my account section. US is not offered as a country - neither is France, the UK, Spain, etc. So he did not sign up from the States using Bitcoin.

Bryan, isn't being pointed the point of making a point? (I admit it's not some of my best work, but it's all I could come up with. I got nothing else. lol)

I'm from the US. I signed up with Bitcoin. I don't use a VPN. There was not one single issue. In fact, after I had signed up, a rep contacted me to talk about the welcome bonus and during the conversation, I saw where it stated that US was not accepted. I apologized immediately and told the rep that I was from the US. He told me: Not a problem.

I have several friends from the States that play there. No problems. Constant emails and live chat exposure. (It just so happens, a friend of mine sent me a chunk of history last night and asked for some 3rd party insight. Since it is relevant, I added this information)

When you sign up with Bitstarz, you are inundated with emails regarding free spins. A host checks in with you to explain the way the free spins work and to give you options with regard to how you want to play them. They are on top of sh*t. There is a good deal of communication. At least this was my experience.

Tirilej-
I agree that the player is almost assuredly a cheater. We wouldn't likely be having this discussion if they were't. Using my personal experience and information that has been shared, I still feel strongly that Bitstarz was aware of the fraudulent behavior. I understand that I am not qualified to make this call. Like you, I'm merely sharing my opinion. Pointedly, as it were. heh heh heh

 

[alexking12k]

Again... The concern voiced by many members in this thread is that the casino accepted deposits from a player knowing full well that if this player happened to win, that same player would not get paid. The player has claimed to have made eight deposits. In case you didn't catch the significance of this... allow me to say it once more. Eight deposits.

I understand you perfectly and I am not arguing with you. Unfortunately, this is not the first time that something like this has happened and it certainly won't be the last. It's sad but it is what it is. Heck, this has happened to me in the past too and I didn't get any of my deposits back either.

 

[CS Report]

This guys is freakin relentless. He has filed 4 or 5 complaints with us (almost daily now). He is non stop with his claims of being ripped off. I contacted Bitstarz to get clarification on their KYC and ID checks for BTC players and they assured me they have never been anonymous when it comes to their players. BTC or no BTC. They pointed me to this thread so I could see it wasn't just about his name not being correct in his Bitstarz account but that he also had multiple accounts from his web browser.

This is the reply I received from Bitstarz...

Hey Rick,

Bitstarz never had in terms that we would allow anonymous players. In our T&C we can always ask for documents. So, If something is suspicious, we ask for KYC.

This guy has violated our T&C for few things: few connected accounts, wrong KYC etc.

Check the story here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/bitstarz-denied-and-stole-4-btc-from-me.80527/

I hope you understand that scam was on the other side.

So we had this rule from the begining:

4.1.4
All information that You provide to Bitstarz.com during the term of validity of this agreement is true, complete, and correct, and that You shall immediately notify Bitstarz.com of any change of such information;

So I don't think there is news here.

This is today's complaint from this guy which actually implies he isfrom the US...

Kenneth xxxxxxx submitted a complaint.

Reply-To: xxxxxxxx@gmail.com

Type: Submit a Complaint

Account: xxxxxxxx

Casino: Bitstarz.com

Complaint:
Hi I was hoping maybe that you could help me recently I won 4 bitcoins At bitstarz and was denied the money I won and the deposit even taken from me. The reason I was told was putting false info at first. My issue is this when u sign up as a player depositing bitcoin you only need to provide a valid email address to withdraw and sign up . the profile information including name can be left blank. Because it's supposed to be anonomys with bitcoin and that's how they let usa players play. Now all I did was put a user name in the name section thinking it's anonomys anyways if you withdraw but when you guys asked me for documents I provided everything you asked and told you before hand that it is my user name not my full name so the first name was correct but last name part was the rest of my username. Now they have said I had multiple accounts now too. If that is so I don't know about this there are other people that live here too. But I never opened accounts to abuse any bonus I don't believe I used a deposit bonus in the past maybe once and I know I didn't use one when I won. And if there were other accounts coming from here you would have surely detected this during the eight months I have been playing here but said nothing. You guys send me weekly email to come play on your site and I do and I deposit money there but then win but this whole time I never had a chance to cashout which doent seem fair at all to me. So they keep letting me deposit over and over just to deny my winnings that's crazy. Now I know you advertise or get paid through affiliates to them from here but hopefully you can help because it just gives this casino a bad reputation which will hurt them in the long run.

So Ken, as you probably read in the email I just sent you, it's over. You are not going to be paid 4BTC from Bitstarz. You broke their terms not only with false personal information but multiple accounts as well. Deny it as much as you like. Bug the sh*t out of us as much as you like. Beat this to death on the forum for as much as Bryan will take it, but you are not getting the 4BTC you claim you are owed from Bitstarz. Move on. And next time use your real name and stick with one account per name, household and IP.

Rick
CS Report






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[CS Report]

And now this guy is going to take down Bitstarz single handedly through Facebook and Reddit lol...

I know they won't pay me and I didn't make a mistake they did believe you me I have started a a campaign to expose this site until it's bankrupt. All over twitter Facebook reddit every bitcoin blog you can read. I know your site just gets paid by them because your on there payroll and you just have people that work for these places as the one posting but beileve this site will wish they had paid me when I'm done

 

[Factchexs]

Bitstarz

It seems to me if Bitstarz is telling people through email and chat that it's ok not a problem if your from the USA then that's against there own terms of service. And through the chat James from Bitstarz will instruct you to leave the profile information blank if your from the USA. So there instructing people to break there own rules. Now if you cashout or try to and you send in the documents if requested then they will just take your money because you are from the USA. If the win is big enough I gather. It seems like the player also made a lot more deposits than Kelly said. He said he had been a player for 8 months not that he made 8 deposits I believe he made a lot more than that. So I guess Bitstarz has no problem taking people's money it's the cashout they have a problem with. As I have read elsewhere Bitstarz has a reputation of taking players money. They did something similar to a friend of mine and took 5 bitcoins from them. He probably won't ever get his money back but I bet he will get his message across.

 

[Factchexs]

This guys is freakin relentless. He has filed 4 or 5 complaints with us (almost daily now). He is non stop with his claims of being ripped off. I contacted Bitstarz to get clarification on their KYC and ID checks for BTC players and they assured me they have never been anonymous when it comes to their players. BTC or no BTC. They pointed me to this thread so I could see it wasn't just about his name not being correct in his Bitstarz account but that he also had multiple accounts from his web browser.

This is the reply I received from Bitstarz...



This is today's complaint from this guy which actually implies he isfrom the US...



So Ken, as you probably read in the email I just sent you, it's over. You are not going to be paid 4BTC from Bitstarz. You broke their terms not only with false personal information but multiple accounts as well. Deny it as much as you like. Bug the sh*t out of us as much as you like. Beat this to death on the forum for as much as Bryan will take it, but you are not getting the 4BTC you claim you are owed from Bitstarz. Move on. And next time use your real name and stick with one account per name, household and IP.

Rick
CS Report






ᐧ

4.1.4
All information that You provide to Bitstarz.com during the term of validity of this agreement is true, complete, and correct, and that You shall immediately notify Bitstarz.com of any change of such information;

So I don't think there is news here.


If James at Bitstarz is telling people via chat to leave the profile information blank if you are from the USA to be able to play and cashout .. Then that would clearly break the rules 4.1.4 in there terms of service the same rule they are saying the player broke. So why would they deny him a cashout when they tell people to break the same rule that he is accused of.