Bitstarz cancelled my withdrawal without a valid reason

[Djcent]

There isn't any fraud in this situation nor with most players using vpn and bonuses together (when allowed). I was just explaining why operators will look at VPN usage more negatively with bonuses when compared to just real money play using a VPN.

I definitely won't describe exactly how people are defrauding casinos using VPNs on this forum. But I will tell you it is definitely happening and VPNs are one of the ways fraudsters pretend to be someone they are not.

This is getting a little bit off topic so let's leave it there as I was just explaining to the OP why there is a difference between cash and bonus play.

I suspect this is becoming less of a factor now that Curacao casinos are required to do KYC. If you have an "anonymous" customer then it's more difficult (but not impossible) to tell whether it's a new one, or bonus bot signing up for the 600th time.


There's a third actor here - which is the game provider. Players using a VPN may be circumventing blocks they have in place for a variety of reasons (licensing, regulatory, sanctions) which complicates matters. It may be that all three parties are willing to turn a blind eye to chase the money, but I wouldn't suggest it as a harmless venture at any point.


If there's no KYC, then more work is required to uniquely identify your customers. Many - but not all - bonuses will be intended as marketing loss leaders, which means if a player is taking that bonus five or ten times instead of once, then the operator is losing money for no reason.

From a technical standpoint, the whole purpose of a VPN is to mask your identity - so in that sense you are already trying to "trick" one or more systems into doing something it wasn't intended to do. As above, all parties may be willing to turn a blind eye to it, but suggesting you're doing nothing wrong would be a stretch.

When I was a client of this operator, the support team strongly recommended that I use a VPN. If using a VPN leads to such consequences, then why does the operator suggest it? To later create difficulties for the player in case of a win?

 

[jasonuk]

When I was a client of this operator, the support team strongly recommended that I use a VPN. If using a VPN leads to such consequences, then why does the operator suggest it? To later create difficulties for the player in case of a win?

As some people have sadly found out the hard way, the terms and conditions are binding and customer support is not.

They could be doing it as a way to get around provider geo-restrictions (although those have reduced in recent years as many providers have thrown their standards and integrity out of the window), they could be doing it to allow play from people who shouldn't be on the site (particularly relevant now with Curacao banning the US, UK, France, Germany and others under the new CGB licenses) or they could be setting a trap for players.

 

[Ozan46]

Hello @Ozan46,

Just a friendly reminder that as you now have an active PAB, our Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures require that you refrain from posting in public while we assist you with your complaint.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Regards,
GourdFollower
PAB Manager

Hello, sorry, didnt read it carefully enough.

 

[Djcent]

Hello @Ozan46,

Just a friendly reminder that as you now have an active PAB, our Player Arbitration Policies and Procedures require that you refrain from posting in public while we assist you with your complaint.

Thanks for your cooperation.

Regards,
GourdFollower
PAB Manager

Let's support the player with silence. No more words in this thread until the end of the investigation.

 

[Ozan46]

Hi guys!

Update: PAB is closed and I still don't know what I have allegedly made wrong.. only thing I get told is "terms violations". Actually, tbh that's more than disappointing as I made no mistake, never had an account before, didn't abuse anything.
So I waited 2 weeks for the same answer the live support gave me without any reasoning.

I was advised to contact or do an ADR, but BitStarz T&C only says to contact their live chat to complain, but they are not helping anyway, they always give the same answers. Also, if I would do so, I don't think that anyone would help me or even tell me what the problem was.


So yea,
RIP max win (20k X)
RIP 16.500$
RIP my deposits I made after that win

 

[maxd]

Hello,

As I had explained to you in your PAB, the casino showed evidence of your Terms violations and we supported their decision against you because of those violations.

Furthermore I pointed you to the section of the PAB Rules where we clearly say that we will not share case evidence with you because it is not ours to share, you must go to the casino for that.

Finally, I admitted that I was wrong about the ADR and gave you further guidance on how to proceed.

You’ve had your PAB, it went against you for a number of reasons, you’ve come back here for an update and that should be that.

- Max

 

[Djcent]

Привет,

Как я объяснил вам в вашем PAB, казино предоставило доказательства нарушения вами Условий, и мы поддержали их решение против вас из-за этих нарушений.

Кроме того, я указал вам на раздел Правил PAB, где мы четко говорим, что не будем делиться с вами доказательствами по делу, поскольку они не входят в нашу компетенцию, и для этого вам придется обратиться в казино.

Наконец, я признал, что ошибался относительно ADR, и дал вам дальнейшие указания о том, как действовать дальше.

У вас был PAB, он был не в вашу пользу по ряду причин, вы вернулись сюда за обновлениями, и на этом все закончилось.

- Макс

A familiar scenario