Bit of a rant

[Mark_32Red (retired acct)]

No problem Mark thanks for your input

Thanks I hope the sessions get better soon.

 

[ed skull murphy]

Thanks I hope the sessions get better soon.

Well crank 'em up a bit then!

 

[shadow123]

A little rant seems to have grabbed some attention,I dont think the machines are rigged or that the casinos are up to any
funny business, just that it is very, very hard to get some decent playtime now and wonder what has changed.

 

[mack341]

Sorry if my comment didn’t sit well goatwack, we (me included) have bad sessions and I agree it’s good to vent off steam, but do you ever think ‘there is something bad with these machines’? There are certain flags we look for and, although I am sure the OP is fine, this is one of them.

Apologies if my comment came across wrong but it wasn’t intended to be in bad faith. By the additional replies all seems good but I hope you agree it’s always good to have an alternative view.

@shadow123 sorry if I offended in any way.

Mark

I think most slot players from time to time think "‘there is something bad with these machines", it just goes with the territory. Its part of the process of evaluating whether you wish to carry on playing to the same level or cut back.

 

[mack341]

This is dangerous territory. Like you said, if you had taken smaller wins you would have been much better off.

I experienced it yesterday, playing at betfair, things looked bleak with a £70 loss heading my way, but with my last £5 deposit and some wins on giants gold I got back to £64 at which point I should have called it quits, but played on, eventually lost the £64 courtesy of rhino, redeposited another £20 and lost that too. I kick myself for not withdrawing the £64, as the £6 loss became £90.

 

[goatwack]

I think the distinction needs to be made because the way the industry is seemingly headed it's all a bit black & white. There will always be problem gamblers and casinos will always be able to spot them.

If we're to throw everyone into the same basket then we'd all be problem gamblers by definition, be it through constantly losing and/ or playing the games in the first place, knowing that we're predisposed to lose. Fact is it should always remain the individual's choice to do so, surely.

 

[ed skull murphy]

I experienced it yesterday, playing at betfair, things looked bleak with a £70 loss heading my way, but with my last £5 deposit and some wins on giants gold I got back to £64 at which point I should have called it quits, but played on, eventually lost the £64 courtesy of rhino, redeposited another £20 and lost that too. I kick myself for not withdrawing the £64, as the £6 loss became £90.

It's a slippery slope. Is it just the loss-chasing though? Or do the intense brain chemistry changes render rational thought impossible? We are going off topic here.

 

[mack341]

I think its a bit of both, the brain chemistry changes for me were at first accepting a loss, waking up the next day, a few seconds of blissful blankness and then the stark memory 'oh no I lost £200 last night!!'

Getting lucky with a few big wins which releases the chemicals in the brain builds the addiction until you are pressing the spin button with no sense of spending money.

I think if I had kept a detailed log of every deposit etc.. and knew my exact loss, I would chase more than I do. I know I definitely cannot incur the same level of loss I have had the last two years, without it impacting on my me, but I hope with the experience I have gained that I will be more sensible. My worse losses have always come after a good win, so I know I need to be extra careful if I do get a win as there is nothing worse than seeing a good win evaporate away.

 

[lockinlove]

Hey Shadow,

Please take this in the context I am trying to get across. I don’t mean to be derogatory.

Our Player Experience Team would respond to this kind of message asking if you are comfortable with your levels of spend. The comments you have made are typical of someone who isn’t comfortable. I am not saying that is you, but something you should consider.

Please consider a longer break or setting limits with the operator you are playing with. If you have an account at 32Red or any in the Kindred group I can help set them for you.

Apologies if I have the wrong end of the stick but it’s important we all play responsibly (me included).

Let me know if I can help in any way.

Mark

Then your player experience teams needs retraining. There is nothing wrong with someone being pissy that they got zero entertainment or features with a 200e deposit and small bets. All he said was he is irritated his play was shit and the machines maybe rigged,

I think bonanza is shit and rigged. Guess how many times ive played in the past 6 months? Maybe 6, if that. I really do not think thats part of how you should flag people

Complaining about the amount they have lost, constant emails, never ending complaining. Sure. One thread and one complaint should not have you all in the board room deciding if someone is on the verge of a serious addiction.

Nothing like having a nightmare session and then being patronized by the casino asking if you have a gambling issue lol

 

[dunover]

My losses not that high but same feeling I have. Bonanza has wiped around £600 off me in 3 weeks. That to me is too much to accept is normal. Another loss tonight I'm a inch from closing them all and all are now limited too.

Whole lot of them are pile of shite, losing £100 to win £12 is just massive piss take.

It's been kind to you then?

 

[dunover]

You could argue that ALL gambling is irresponsible!

I mean, if I were a banker and offered a savings account that paid minus 3.5% interest per annum I'd be certified, and that's over a year. If I offered the same account which paid minus 3.5% but every 10 seconds for every transaction, I'd be facing a lynch mob outside my house each morning.

Yet, that's what we are all 'investing' our cash in. So nobody complain if you lose, win or draw! I never do!

 

[TheAddict]

Similar has been said before by others, but i tend to set a 'loss of winnings limit' .
Ie; i deposit £15 (1337 low roller style). Ill continue till bust unless i reach roughly 6-8x the deposit amount. Say i turn 15 into 90, ill allow a loss limit of 20 from that point. If i hit a huge win from the off ill allow a slightly higher 'loss of winnings limit' . Or if i double the 90 from 90 ill allow it to drop to 150 or 160 before retiring... unless it increases by a notable amount.

Obviously the key to put it into action is winning in the first place lol. But it tends to give some satisfying control when sticking to it, like the amount you spend after the big win becomes a stress free and somewhat exciting punt.
Also removes those feels when you ask yourself afterwards the old 'whyyyy lord whyyyyy' after blowing it all back, and gives opportunity to get familier and friendly with that withdraw button. but the smaller raises can often turn into total self butt f*****g moments if one listens to that other voice, that one which gently whispers a polite little reminder; 'ah, ill just take it down another tenner as its been a while since last bonus so it must be due tbh'

 

[mack341]

One bad session I had made me go into a Derek and clive style rant, with the obligatory splattering of the c word which is unusual for me, the slot [raging rhino] was playing so badly it was comical.

 

[TheAddict]

One bad session I had made me go into a Derek and clive style rant, with the obligatory splattering of the c word which is unusual for me, the slot [raging rhino] was playing so badly it was comical.

Know that one m8. My worst has to be, when losing the plot in one session, turning 20 into 330 on doa @9p bets. Getting stung with a "documents please" upon WD.
Took 330 back to doa the following day, as was the weekend, and docs not being approved by next day and i was bored AF. After some 3+ hours iirc, started cursing it and asking why i had not even seen over 30x hit, pretty unusual not to see 5 hats or more in such a time. I wanted them hats bad man.
Initiate tap start mode to find hats. Eventually comes after another age. 240 odd left, down too much now and hatsfailed to produce the rewarding feeling i was hoping for.
All that could be heard if someone listened in from then on would be the furious tapping of the start button on a tablet, the words 'wtf is this doing' repeatedly and the odd 'cu****g POS! thrown in, which went on for probably some 7 hours, all still at 9p bets. Before finally withdrawing the last 30 quid, of which, along with the docs, was processed the following morning. Booyakasha.

Ill hold my hands up, it was not my proudest moment. but i still made £9.50 (2.5% deposit fee) .

Top tip. Dont chase hats.

 

[Jasminebed]

Pretty much everything you played was high volitility. But your stakes were modest.

I know just how it feels to "save up" for a fun night of gambling, to have it evaporate before you get through the four beers you bought for your big night in.

If you are not playing with a bonus, could I suggest making smaller deposits? Even you are prepared to make more than one of them? If you are frustrated and not enjoying yourself after $50, call it a night. Also, at $50, you might be happy with doubling your deposit. If you deposit $200, are you going to withdraw at $250? I know I do not generally. Plus, even without a bonus, most casinos want a 1x turnover (or more) or your deposit. This might be waived for established accounts on occassion, but often not by frontline support.

@Mark, I appreciate your input, even though it's not your brand he's playing with. But I know I got denied a small comp once because i was unhappy about poor playtime after several 1000s (which I had recently won), not because I was ahead, but because anyone that is temporarily unhappy must have a potential problem.

I don't think anything is rigged at reputable casinos. But bad sessions happen, some are worse than others.

Had one myself about a month ago. You almost can't believe your luck is so bad. No crazy big bets. No rigging, just bad luck, and slots less volitive than your choices.

And that was after a couple of weeks of "saving up", because I find it frustrating to not get out of out the gatepost on a $20 deposit.

While I didn't end up cashing out, I ran a few free spins up to close to $100 multiple times and played for hours not long afterwards.

You are entitled to be disgruntled, but the slots are not rigged beyond the house always wins, at least anywhere legit.

 

[bebo67]

All I see is "one deposit" "in a few weeks" "to test". That is exactly the opposite of a person not in control.

If all you need to get the "you are a problem gambler" talk is a comment about low entertainment of your season ......
... then soon enough the police will be out arresting anybody that doesn't walk with a constant smile on their faces!

You took the words right out of my mouth! Nothing like taking a posts attention away!

 

[BrianGhattas]

I lost my grandmother last month and, as an atheist, I know I'll never see her again. To ease the pain, I have turned to compulsive gambling. I have made numerous $150 deposits (and a couple of $50s) since then. I have had sessions where the slots ate up the money, sessions where I got up ($50-220) before busting and sessions where I did cash out ($150-300 profit) so there's no consistency. If I had bust after bust, you can bet I'd be pissed. I went from $200 up to $450 down to $20 up to my current $130 down. I was able to get a bunch of big hits so I've had better luck than most. However, I feel the slots seem more volatile now than they were in November 2015. It doesn't help when so many crap companies are churning out bad slots or formerly respectable companies ruin their games and lose the deed. In the case of Canada, we're losing games left and right because companies seem to want something from each province.

Some of those deposits were at PlayOLG, which I've self-excluded for a month and probably will stay away from beyond that. Tired of AGCO's incompetence. How do you lose millions with an online casino and yet can't figure it out? If they're too ignorant to look at how PlayNow operates then they should just shut down PlayOLG. Typical Ontario and Kathleen Wynne.

 

[Cody7]

Its all luck end of story
You have bad luck at the moment

 

[snorky510238]

I too have been experiencing a very bad run of luck, I lost £300 in one evening [ a lot when you stick to minimum stake] and I was so angry, because I felt I had been robbed, I used the TAB feature for the first time ever to take a break for 4 weeks. By week three I was on the brink of extending the break as the reality of my losses [prob around 10k] over 2 years began to sink in, it was as if going cold turkey had started to rewire my brain back to how it use to be when I thought losing £5 was too much of a waste.

But then like you I dipped my toe back in or so I thought. Another £270 loss, then very near the point of giving up slots for a long time, I had the amazing hit on extra chilli £730 at 20p stake. But within a week of having a few goes here and there the £730 had all gone, I couldn't believe it what a waste of a rare win. Luckily I won one of the £500 BTG prices, but I have since come close to losing half of this as well, and I just play at the minimum stake.

When I started playing slots about two years ago, there were definitely more wins, sessions went on longer with good recoveries, you could start with a £50 deposit and get to £1,000. But it seems to have all dried up a bit now, so I am returning to my small deposits [£5-10] and taking any small win I can. Today has been good to me as I gained back my losses from yesterday[£120] when I wasn't expecting to, so I feel a relieved man, and can now do the odd £5 here and there and hope to hit something somewhere.

Yes indeed apart from the big wins you have had this pretty much replicates my play of late. Strange how so many of us think we are alll experiencing the same thing if there’s no truth behind it. I would say without question something has changed lately and as you would expect in a gambling world it don’t benefit us.

 

[dunover]

All I see is "one deposit" "in a few weeks" "to test". That is exactly the opposite of a person not in control.

If all you need to get the "you are a problem gambler" talk is a comment about low entertainment of your season ......
... then soon enough the police will be out arresting anybody that doesn't walk with a constant smile on their faces!

I hope not, I'd be serving life.....

 

[nikantw]

I guess what people mean with "something has changed" is this:

The low RTP periods seem more frequent and longer than before.

So the real question is:

Is it checked by the regulators that the RTP drops as low and as frequent as the slot's math model predicts?

To give an example, lets take a dice. 6 sides, numbers 1-6, chances 1/6 for each number to come up. This math model gives 1.2/100,000,000 chance for number "1" not to come up after 100 drops of the dice.
This 1.2/100,000,000 chance is produced by the math model of the dice. Should be verifiable any time. Yet people feel that when they play slots something like that happens 1/1,000 spins. In other words a lot more frequent than it should.

That is not the same as rigged. The TRTP (over a long period of time) is checked, other things too. But I think there is a gray zone that is not regulated properly.

 

[snorky510238]

I guess what people mean with "something has changed" is this:

The low RTP periods seem more frequent and longer than before.

So the real question is:

Is it checked by the regulators that the RTP drops as low and as frequent as the slot's math model predicts?

To give an example, lets take a dice. 6 sides, numbers 1-6, chances 1/6 for each number to come up. This math model gives 1.2/100,000,000 chance for number "1" not to come up after 100 drops of the dice.
This 1.2/100,000,000 chance is produced by the math model of the dice. Should be verifiable any time. Yet people feel that when they play slots something like that happens 1/1,000 spins. In other words a lot more frequent than it should.

That is not the same as rigged. The TRTP (over a long period of time) is checked, other things too. But I think there is a gray zone that is not regulated properly.

Well if it was random given the incredible amount of wins available that don’t even cover your stake in some games it would also be possible to have say 45 out of 50 winning spins in a row but does that ever happen?