Bigcasino.co.uk excuses for not paying

[kerrywo]

Good day everyone,

Long time reader here was forced to register because of my troubles with bigcasino.co.uk.

My first 3 withdrawals were pretty much instant so I continued to play and won about 1200 gbp and my trouble started. They offered every excuse in the book invluding Neteller technical problems (in the same time withdrawals from other casinos were received without a problem to my Neteller account) additional documents (which I promptly sent) etc. Now they need something else:

"Dear Kerry,

Unfotyunately, we need to perform additional anti fraud verification for your account. Please provide us
with the land line (not cellphone!) number to reach you.

We are not going to call you for any promotional offers, just for security check.

Also please note that as part of an additional security check we may charge your card with random amount up to 1 GBP, and you will have to provide us with the correct amount to prove you are the areal owner of this card.

Sorry, but your withdrawal will remain undone until the verification process is finished.

Regards,
Viktar.
"

Any ideas?

 

[same_old]

This is terrible if you ask me.

However, there is a VERY reputable person here by the name of SLOTMONSTER who either is part owner OR works for the company.

He will chime in here soon I'm sure and get all this sorted for you.

Just be a little patient here and things should work out for you.

Regards,

Sameold

 

[chuchu59]

Is Viktar slot monster by any chance? maybe its best to send him a pm to see if he can help.

 

[same_old]

Yep, Viktars the man for bigcasino I;m pretty sure.

 

[kerrywo]

I actually sent him PM and he suggested to contact him via email. That was his reply

 

[Nifty29]

Not only that, a native English speaker needs to proof read emails as the one below comes across as unprofessional.

There's nothing wrong with people not being able to speak English well, but when it comes to commercial and professional correspondence it needs to be correct.

Just send the email and give him the landline or allow the verification deposit and all your troubles will be over (if you are a legit player of course)

 

[SlotMonster]

Hello everyone,

Thanks for letting me know about this thread.

I will post a reply soon.

Regards,
Viktar.

 

[CasinoBeacon]

Thanks for posting about this, kerrywo. This is one casino I'm looking at so I'll follow this thread closely.

 

[SlotMonster]

Security check

First of all, I would like to apologize for any inconvenience.

We are experiencing major fraud attempt since last week, and the “model” is almost always the same:

Players register at our casino, make deposits via Credit Cards, play a little and then submit withdrawals on Neteller or Moneybookers. They provide all necessary documents, but it was pretty easy to find out they are false, and we already blocked about 10 accounts.

But as an additional security check we decided to ask players who made CC deposits to provide us with a landline phone number to call them and ask to confirm that they made deposits. We also decided to charge Credit Cards with random sum (up to 1 GBP) and ask players to provide us with correct amount.

kerrywo, I apologize for delay with your payment, and would like to assure you: as soon as we complete our security check, your withdrawal will be processed immediately (like we did your previous withdrawals).

We understand it may cause delays with payments, but we also hope players can understand our intention to protect our business.

@Nifty29: thanks for pointing this out.

If you have any questions – please feel free to post it here or contact me via PM/email.

Regards,
Viktar.

 

[rainmaker]

.


"Unfotyunately, we need to perform additional anti fraud verification for your account. Please provide us
with the land line (not cellphone!) number to reach you."

I think the rep has given a good explanation here.

But I have one comment. It is probably about 8-9 years since I last had a "land line" in house. So I find it a bit strange to require someone to give you a "land line" number.

 

[SlotMonster]

But I have one comment. It is probably about 8-9 years since I last had a "land line" in house. So I find it a bit strange to require someone to give you a "land line" number.

We also understand that, rainmaker. But if the player doesn't have land line number - we still have another option to check their CC (charge it with random amount).

 

[aceking123]

But as an additional security check we decided to ask players who made CC deposits to provide us with a landline phone number to call them and ask to confirm that they made deposits. We also decided to charge Credit Cards with random sum (up to 1 GBP) and ask players to provide us with correct amount.

hi slot monster , cant see the point in you guys charging a cc upto 1 gbp , as if they still get a paper mail bill for cc , that could take over 1 month depending on when they get it , doesnt realy help when a player is making a withdrawal . maybe after first deposit you could ask for the account to be verifyed before next deposit.

i myslef have a account at your casino ive yet to make a deposit but when i do i shall only use neteller , so this would be no help to me at all considering i shall only send in address details , this be enough considering any withdrawals to neteller as ive already been vetted as such from them.

 

[rainmaker]

We also understand that, rainmaker. But if the player doesn't have land line number - we still have another option to check their CC (charge it with random amount).

Oki From reading the OP`s mail, I got the impression that you should call him and charge with random amount. That is why I commented it.

 

[SlotMonster]

hi slot monster , cant see the point in you guys charging a cc upto 1 gbp , as if they still get a paper mail bill for cc , that could take over 1 month depending on when they get it , doesnt realy help when a player is making a withdrawal . maybe after first deposit you could ask for the account to be verifyed before next deposit.

I assume it's still possible to call your bank and ask them to provide you with the last transaction's details.

 

[aceking123]

I assume it's still possible to call your bank and ask them to provide you with the last transaction's details.

hi depends you use the term CC this in uk is a credit card , most uk people would use a debit card not cc , anyway this still would take upto ten days to show in there account , unlikely that it would show that quickly on the account , it may well show up on your debit card account within a couple of days . im not knocking you or your casino in anyway, im just pointing out the ways in works in uk which is going to be different to other places & considering your casino is plainly aimed at uk players im just trying to point out from a players point of view )

 

[SlotMonster]

anyway this still would take upto ten days to show in there account

It's not actually right, mrjones
Money will be blocked almost immediately after we charge your credit (or debit) card.

Our verification procedure is pretty much the same as for Moneybookers:

We will debit your credit/debit card for a small random amount (usually between EUR 1.01 and 2.99 depending on your account currency) after which you must check your card statement for the exact transaction amount and enter it into the 'verify credit/debit card' section of your Moneybookers profile. Please note that you may have to wait some time for the debit to appear on your statement.
Upon completion, the transaction amount will be credited to your Moneybookers account and your card will be verified with the upload limit shown on screen.

ADD: I have notified the OP about my post with reply on their question.

 

[aceking123]

so your telling me that if i was to make a deposit via my debit card & won lets say 300 pounds & went to withdraw it , you would charge my card of little ammount & hold on to these winnings untill such a time when i have this figure to correct to give you ? well lucky me then just aswell i dont use money bookers either , & i shall point out that all my uk sites with uk casinos ive yet to have any problem making withdrawals without providing any docs what so ever . only the eu sites & one site to which forced me to give details ( inetbet ) they can find me via another checking method , well you could also answer the following on here then , if i only deposit via neteller & only withdraw the same way how many docs do i need to send into your casino before you shant grant me a withdrawal ?

 

[SlotMonster]

so your telling me that if i was to make a deposit via my debit card & won lets say 300 pounds & went to withdraw it , you would charge my card of little ammount & hold on to these winnings untill such a time when i have this figure to correct to give you ? well lucky me then just aswell i dont use money bookers either , & i shall point out that all my uk sites with uk casinos ive yet to have any problem making withdrawals without providing any docs what so ever . only the eu sites & one site to which forced me to give details ( inetbet ) they can find me via another checking method , well you could also answer the following on here then , if i only deposit via neteller & only withdraw the same way how many docs do i need to send into your casino before you shant grant me a withdrawal ?

You can find our payments policy here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So, to reply on your question:

For this reason to be able to complete your withdrawal processing we may request proof for your identification in the following cases:

- Deposit and Withdrawal payment methods are different;
- Some discrepancies occur between information provided for a payout request and the registered player account;
- Request deposit amount exceeds the indicated limit.

Simply saying, if you are going to use Neteller to deposit and cashout via Neteller, and has entered all necessary info in your account - I don't think we will ask you for any documents.

Hope I informed you well

 

[aceking123]

You can find our payments policy here:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.

So, to reply on your question:



Simply saying, if you are going to use Neteller to deposit and cashout via Neteller, and has entered all necessary info in your account - I don't think we will ask you for any documents.

Hope I informed you well

you did indeed many thx for that )

 

[vinylweatherman]

It should be made clearer that this random charge is not going to be KEPT as profit, but returned to the player. This is also how Neteller does it when verifying the bank account used to accept withdrawals by "bank wire".

This is a fraud model made easier by the fact that the UK has made online gambling legal, and thus quite a few cards will accept the transactions, especially debit cards.

Unfortunately, the loophole is Mastercard, because unlike VISA, a casino CANNOT send refunds back to the card, thus it is easier to set up a scheme to use a stolen Mastercard to move money through the casino to Neteller, and then onward pretty quickly.

A random charge means that the player has to have access not just to the card details or card itself, but to it's statements - whether online and by post.

If the statement is online, it will be possible to find out the amount of the random charge in 2-3 working days. If paper, it does not mean waiting a month. There will be a phone option, and one tool will be to have the last few transactions read back to you. If not, speak to a CS rep from the bank, pass the security checks, and they will be able to find the relevant transaction.

It's hardly surprising that a number of fraudsters decided to have a crack at a new entrant from Belarus, thinking they would get away with it when other casinos would have caught it. Seems they were wrong, and BigCasino were not as naive as the fraudsters thought.

Most casinos will insist on sending withdrawals back to the method of deposit BECAUSE of the risk of this kind of fraud.

Another option for BigCasino in this case would be to insist on sending the withdrawal by cheque to the billing address associated with the card used for the deposits, rather than to Neteller. It is still relatively easy to deal with cheques in the UK, and although the banks want rid of them, this can't happen until there is another option for making payments that don't go through the electronic systems.

Although many people don't have a landline, they may still have ADSL internet unless they are with Virgin Media, so there WILL still be a landline service with a number allocated to it behind all of this, even if it isn't connected to a phone.

All ADSL internet services need a valid landline to work from, and so it should be possible to make calls to it if there is a phone connected to the "phone" outlet on the filter. The bill for the internet service should quote the landline number somewhere.

If Bigcasino asks these players who provides their internet connection, they can gather further information that might help verify them (or catch them out). It is even possible to find out who provides their internet service from their IP address.

 

[SlotMonster]

Thanks, vinyl.

Yes, now we have to return funds to the real cardholders, but since few of them used MasterCard, we can't just refund money.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Thanks, vinyl.

Yes, now we have to return funds to the real cardholders, but since few of them used MasterCard, we can't just refund money.

It's likely that the real cardholders will query the transactions, and Mastercard will have to return the money, and will then go after you for it.

Can your team contact the banks and tell them that you have uncovered this fraud, and are intending to return the money?

This may save you from getting "chargebacks" on your processing record.

Since you are UK only, you don't have the additional complications of dealing with numerous banks in many countries.

You could also contact the "Euro" divisions for Mastercard, and VISA where you cannot simply put the money back onto the card.

Now you have to think like them, and figure out their next move

TV documentaries here often cover fraud, and show what was done, how it was done, and how they got detected and busted. The idea is probably to show fraudsters that no matter how clever they think they are, they are going to get caught, and end up in prison.

Last week covered a fraud that involved the use of a number of addresses, all properly documented, but with tenancy structures deliberately set up so as to trick the benefits system into thinking they were helping 4 different vulnerable families, whereas it was one extended family who built a property empire using housing benefit to pay their mortgage.

It is possible that a similar setup could be used to screw online casinos.

They weren't caught because of fake documents, but because of connections between them that shouldn't have been there.

You also need to find a way to quickly sift out the innocent players that have been accidentally snared by your investigation, and before they start complaining to the consumer protection authorities.

 

[SlotMonster]

It's likely that the real cardholders will query the transactions, and Mastercard will have to return the money, and will then go after you for it.

Can your team contact the banks and tell them that you have uncovered this fraud, and are intending to return the money?

This may save you from getting "chargebacks" on your processing record.

Since you are UK only, you don't have the additional complications of dealing with numerous banks in many countries.

You could also contact the "Euro" divisions for Mastercard, and VISA where you cannot simply put the money back onto the card.

Now you have to think like them, and figure out their next move

Yes, we are now in touch with banks who issued these cards, and waiting a reply from them. We also contacted Visa and MC.

 

[jetset]

Sorry to hear you're having hassles with these bloody crooks, Slotmonster - they ruin it for everyone.

BTW I assume that Viaden is utilising some of the standard industry safeguards against villains such as the data-checking and device reputation software offered by the big security outfits?

 

[SlotMonster]

Sorry to hear you're having hassles with these bloody crooks, Slotmonster - they ruin it for everyone.

BTW I assume that Viaden is utilising some of the standard industry safeguards against villains such as the data-checking and device reputation software offered by the big security outfits?

Thanks, jetset!

Yes, we are using many tools, databases and services to identify possible fraud. This time it were just too many attempts in a short period, but we handled it well and even gained some great experience

As for the OP, we have serious doubts about she's eligible for playing in our casino, for several reasons:

- She provided us with utility bill from the company which doesn't serve her region; moreover, this company didn't recognize customer number on this bill;
- Her Neteller account registered in Finland (we found out that many Neteller accounts used by fraudsters were from Finland);
- She didn't pass CC verification (we charged her CC twice, but she failed to provide us with correct amount);
- We didn't receive any more information from her, and she's doesn't respond to our emails.

We are still waiting a reply from her, but I don't think she will contact us again.

Regards,
Viktar.