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bigbetpoker wont pay me out

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by Piscola, Oct 1, 2009.

    Oct 1, 2009
  1. Piscola

    Piscola Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Chile
    Hello, let me explain in full detail the situation i have:

    Some weeks ago i participated in a non deposit promotion that bigbetpoker.com was offering with thebankrollmob.com, the promotion details re in this link : You must register/login in order to see the link.
    I started playing at bigbetpoker and unlock until level 3 , i started playing and built a bankroll of 1450 usd, in which 120 usd correspond to bigbetpoker in terms of their bonus. So when i played i withdrawed some money... and every time a logged in again after withdrawing money the account automaticly refunded me the bonus again (120 usd)... this was made several times... nevertheless i couldn't withdraw this moeny , it just credited to my account automaticly, without me stealing whatsoever.... so in conclusion i built my 1450 usd bankroll with the automatic bonus of 125 usd more or less, but i won the other money. Every time i logged in and automaticly recived the 125 usd bonus, i thought it was he way the bonus worked, because they dind't permit to withdrawl this bonus, so i thought it worked this way.Now bigbetpoker says that i recived the bonus to many times, they recognised me that i dind't cheated or stole moeny ilegally, but the consider that i am banned and they will not pay me out what i won..because they say i used thier money to won my bankroll, thta is true but i recieved 120 usd not 1450 usd...i won the rest! i played for hours! ..so this is very unfair, as a comission i ask you to help me with this situation because i feel that is unfair for me, they commited and error,not me, i just played poker, and won some moeny i haven't cheated, i just request to them , to pay me what i won

    Thank you very much
    will wait for your reply
     
  2. Oct 1, 2009
  3. WagerWitch

    WagerWitch Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Yeah - like - really? Hmmm do I have to work?
    Location:
    Alaska

    OK -this is just me... But if I were the casino - I certainly wouldn't be paying you ANYTHING.

    You admit to closing out your casino several times and the money coming back.

    ANYONE with a repeating 125.00 can build up a LARGE sum of money.

    I think - after the second time of this happening you would have realized that there was glitch in the system and you should have notified the casino operators.

    This is a computer software malfunction - and voids ALL plays - you have - in my opinion - NO RIGHT TO THIS MONEY - that you built up BECAUSE of the computer glitch.

    Sorry - just my thoughts.
     
  4. Oct 1, 2009
  5. Piscola

    Piscola Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Chile
    ok but it wasen't my glich, this is not my fault, they should asume their loses and pay out what i won.
     
  6. Oct 1, 2009
  7. WagerWitch

    WagerWitch Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Yeah - like - really? Hmmm do I have to work?
    Location:
    Alaska
    It is a software glitch that you took advantage of.

    You already said you were unsure of it being put back into your account several times - THIS SHOULD HAVE RAISED RED FLAGS.

    You would not have amassed that amount of money without that glitch - therefore - they don't owe you any money.

    YES - IT STINKS...

    But I find your cavalier attitude of taking advantage of a Glitch to be even worse.
     
  8. Oct 1, 2009
  9. Piscola

    Piscola Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Chile
    ok i respect your opinion... dont share it..
     
  10. Oct 1, 2009
  11. WagerWitch

    WagerWitch Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Yeah - like - really? Hmmm do I have to work?
    Location:
    Alaska
    You think it is ok to take advantage of a glitch?

    And then to demand payment from a software issue?
     
  12. Oct 1, 2009
  13. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This could have been even MORE serious.

    What if the OP was crap at poker, and kept on coming back an LOSING this repeating bonus again and again.

    It took them long enough to notice with withdrawals being made, they may never have noticed otherwise.

    They would have had one HELL of a job getting the money back from other players, unless they could show collusion (chip dumping) in attempting to take advantage of this glitch.

    The poker room should learn that making flawed software live can cost them dear. If this glitch was affecting all accounts, the mess could have seriously dented their reputation given all the recent poker scandals.
     
  14. Oct 1, 2009
  15. Piscola

    Piscola Dormant account

    Occupation:
    student
    Location:
    Chile
    ok i see...
    well then nothing is left to do then
    could the moderator close this topic
    thanks
     
  16. Oct 1, 2009
  17. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Occupation:
    Pro Poker Player
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    While off topic Big Bet Poker made a horrible mistake by taking the name of a busted poker room that owed players money including myself. You have to wonder about a poker room that did zero research about their brand name. Basically though virtually all of the Merge skins operate under Carbon Poker's cashier and support so Big Bet is likely no different than Carbon Poker when it comes to security and funds.
     
  18. Oct 1, 2009
  19. WagerWitch

    WagerWitch Dormant account webmeister

    Occupation:
    Yeah - like - really? Hmmm do I have to work?
    Location:
    Alaska
    Just reading these rules means that you already know your answer.

    Is this - in fact - a veiled advertising?
     
  20. Oct 1, 2009
  21. vegetagirl2008

    vegetagirl2008 Mafia Wars Level 472

    Occupation:
    No Job Here..
    Location:
    Brooklyn, New York, United States
    The first time it happened, bells and whistles should of went off. The casino stated you used this bonus too many times. In my opinion I don't think the casino should pay you simply because:

    1. You used the software glitch not once but several times.

    I really would not even attempt to get Maxd involved in this one. Its pretty much a done deal. You should of brought this up with the casino before you decided to keeping playing with the $120.00.
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Oct 1, 2009
  23. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Why?

    If you're thinking we should close it because you're done with it and/or not liking where it's going then you should probably read through our Forum Rules to get a clearer picture of how things work at Casinomeister.

    Unless a thread turns abusive or is irreparably hijacked by trolls there usually isn't much "close this topic" around here.

    Obviously you do not respect their opinion so, yes, you definitely should read the Forum Rules. Once you've started a thread everyone is welcome to contribute (assuming it's reasonably on-topic, etc).

    The topic you start is only 'yours' as long as no one else is interested in it. Once others take interest and start contributing it becomes public property. In other words you are more than a little out of line saying "don't share it". It's not up to you to say who can and cannot share their opinions.

    Perhaps what you meant was "Thanks, but I disagree" or "interesting, but I'm not sure how that applies to my situation". You'll find those are rather less off-putting and troublesome responses.
     
  24. Oct 21, 2009
  25. BigBetPoker

    BigBetPoker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Head Of Poker
    Location:
    Netherlands Antillies
    Facts surrounding this case

    This player has already complained about this to the Network (Merge) and they in turn forwarded the complaint to KGC.

    Here is my official reply to KGC regaring this matter.

    The player in question was entered into a promotion that gave players the option to earn up to $330 dollars starting with $10 after which players needed to accrue a number of VIP points in order to reach the next level. Details on this promotion can be found here. You must register/login in order to see the link.

    The terms and conditions for this bonus are also posted on the same page (copied below).



    This promotion is open to new accounts only. In order to qualify for this promotion, players must have signed up through a registered affiliate of BigBetPoker.

    The Bankroll bonus will be credited to your Poker account.

    Players can cash out at any time once their bankroll has exceeded $50 and they have accumulated 700 VIP points.

    Once the player requests a withdrawal he/she will be disqualified from the bankroll builder. If a player makes a deposit then they will be removed from the bankroll builder in lieu of the 1st deposit bonus. Should a player wish to remain in the Bankroll Builder program they can opt to do so by informing Support prior to making their initial deposit. Players choosing this option will not qualify for the 1st deposit bonus but may qualify for subsequent reload bonuses if offered.

    BigBetPoker reserve the right to reclaim any opening bonuses awarded, and any winnings accrued, if customers are found to be tampering with or abusing any aspect of this promotion, as solely determined by our management. In such instances BigBetPoker shall terminate the player's eligibility to participate in the promotion.

    One "Promotion" per person, per IP, family, household, address, email address, telephone number, and shared computer, e.g. public library or workplace. This offer applies exclusively to the first account credited and will not apply to further accounts opened.

    BigBetPoker reserve the right to cancel, reclaim or refuse this Promotion at its own discretion.

    BigBetPoker reserve the right to ask any customer to provide sufficient documentation for us to be satisfied in our absolute discretion as to the customer's identity prior to us crediting any bonus, free bet or offer to their account. Should the bonus have been credited BigBetPoker further reserve the right to withhold any winnings until such documentation has been received.



    The player in question obtained the free $10 but due to a glitch in the system continued to receive bonuses commensurate with the number of points he had received in total which effectively meant that every time the player logged in he obtained more real money into his account.

    The player initially started playing poker in a normal fashion until he logged out and back in to discover that he got more money in his account. He then played poker in a loose and erratic style (exactly as you would expect from someone who has realized that he is getting instant tops ups to his account by logging out and in again).

    To date the player has had $7615 in bonuses ( he was entitled to get up to $330 based upon him reaching a total of 8100 VIP points) and has never made a deposit. He currently has 7301 VIP points so has not even met the requirement for the total amount of $330 being due. A total of $330.40 was won during tournaments and a loss of $3991.06 from ring games giving a total loss posted of -$3660.66

    Once we discovered the error in this system we immediately froze players accounts affected by this in order to carry out an investigation into their play pattern to ensure that these funds had not been dumped to another player as a reciepient and notified the network provider (Merge) about this incident both by phone and email. Merge investigated this but found no evidence to support this player dumping funds.

    This player had every opportunity to inform us that there was an error but has maintained throughout correspondence with us that he felt that the funds were his and that as the fault lay on our side that he is entitled to retain all funds currently in his account. In addition, prior to this error coming to light this player was able to cash out a total of $500 via Neteller which we have been unable to recover.

    Our terms and conditions specifically allow us to close a players account for breaching bonus rules as well as to rescind any payments due through fraud or other errors and I have notified this player that his account is permanently closed and that the funds in here will not be returned as they are neither the result of a deposit nor bonus money which has successfully been rolled over.

    I would like to draw your attention to the excerpts from our published terms and condition which are highlighted below.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    1. Bonuses.
    Complimentary or bonus amounts credited by the Company, if any, into your Account for promotional purposes may only be used to play in the Games. You are not entitled to and agree not to, withdraw such amounts without first complying with the additional terms and conditions set forth in each bonus offering, and if none, then the terms and conditions set forth on the Standard Promotional Offer Terms and Conditions are by way of reference specifically incorporated herein. Further, the Company reserves the right to reclaim any bonus amounts if you do not use them within the period of time specified.
    ? Cash Outs.
    Your account balance ("Account Balance") is the amount of real money deposited to your Account to access the Real Money Games, plus or minus any accrued winnings or losses from playing the Games, less any amounts previously cashed out by you or amounts forfeited or reclaimed by the Company.
    ? Abandonment of Account Balance.
    The Company reserves the right to cancel your Big Bet Poker.com account for any justifiable reason whatsoever at any time without notice to you. If you do not access your Big Bet Poker.com account by "logging in" to your Account using your Account Name and password for a period of one hundred and eighty (180) days, your Account may be closed and the entire Account Balance will be deemed abandoned and forfeited and the Company may also close any account with any ESP you may have; provided however, such requirement for log-in and entry is not and does not constitute any requirement whatsoever for you to play any Game, deposit funds or participate in any activity at Big Bet Poker.com other than logging in.
    ? Forfeiture, Account Closure and Confiscation.
    The Company reserves the right, in its unfettered discretion, to void any winnings and confiscate any balance in your Big Bet Poker.com account (and any ESP account or Company related account including any such account you may have with other websites and casinos owned or operated by the Company) in any of the following circumstances:
    ? If you have more than one active account at Big Bet Poker.com;
    ? If the name on your Big Bet Poker.com account registration does not match the name on the credit card(s) or other payment accounts used to make purchases at Big Bet Poker.com;
    ? If you participate in a Big Bet Poker.com promotion and withdraw before fulfilling the requirements of that particular promotion;
    ? If you provide incorrect or misleading registration information;
    ? If you are not of legal age;
    ? If you connect from a jurisdiction where participation in the Games is prohibited by law;
    ? If you have "charged back" or denied any of the purchases or deposits that you made to your Account;
    ? If you are found cheating or attempting to cheat, or if it is determined by the Company that you have employed or made use of a system (including machines, computers, software or other automated systems) designed specifically to defeat the Big Bet Poker.com system or you are found to have colluded or attempted to collude with other players of Big Bet Poker.com in order to defraud the Company;
    ? If you fail to comply with any of the terms and conditions set forth in this Agreement; OR
    ? If the Company should become aware that you have played at any other online gaming site under any of the circumstances set out at i) to ix) above.
    If, in BigBetPoker.com's sole determination, you are found to have cheated or attempted to defraud the Games, other players, or BigBetPoker.com in any way including but not limited to game manipulation or payment fraud, or if you make untrue and/or malicious comments with regard to the BigBetPoker.com's operation in any media or forum, BigBetPoker.com reserves the right (and you authorize the BigBetPoker.com) to publicize your actions together with your identity and e-mail address, as well as to circulate this information to other online gaming sites, banks, credit reporting agencies, credit card companies, law enforcement departments and other appropriate agencies. BigBetPoker.com may close any accounts, and forfeit account balances, that you have at BigBetPoker.com or at any other Company website, casino and/or business. Further, in the event of you disputing a credit card transaction made at BigBetPoker.com as being unauthorized, or made in a 'card not present' environment, BigBetPoker.com may charge an administration & recovery fee of up to $US 500.00 per disputed transaction if it is deemed by BigBetPoker.com that the transaction was authorized and legitimate. BigBetPoker.com may also engage the services of debt collection agencies to recover from you the amount of any disputed transactions or chargebacks, administration and recovery fees, and other associated credit card processing fees or fines.

    You must register/login in order to see the link.

    Excluded and disqualified players
    ? 6.1 Officers, directors, employees, consultants or agents of BigBetPoker or any of its subsidiaries, parent or associated companies, or any of its or their respective suppliers or vendors (including advertising, printing and publicity agencies) or any officers, directors, employees, consultants or agents of any entity connected with any Promotion, or relatives of any of the foregoing persons (collectively, Unauthorized Persons) are not permitted to participate in any Promotion. For the purposes of these Standard Promotional Terms, "relative" shall include, but not be limited to, a spouse, partner, child or sibling of an Unauthorized Person and any person residing in the same household as an Unauthorized Person.
    ? 6.2 Should a non-Qualifying Player participates in any Promotion, we reserve the right, without prejudice to any other rights under the Rules, to seek the return of any bonus, payment, award or other prize, including from that player's Account.
    ? 6.3 We reserve the right, at our sole discretion, to disqualify any player who cheats or who tampers or attempts to tamper with the entry process for, or the operation of, any Promotion, or whose conduct is in breach of the Rules, contrary to the spirit of the Rules or the intention of the relevant Promotion, or might, in our reasonable opinion, brings us into disrepute.
    Payment of bonuses
    ? 9.1 Subject to Clause 8.1 above, unless otherwise indicated in the applicable Specific Promotional Terms, all real money bonuses will be paid into the Accounts of Qualifying Players within seven (7) days of entry into the relevant Promotion.
    ? 9.2 In the event that more than one real money bonus or any excess payment is accidentally paid to a Qualifying Player, we reserve the right, without prejudice to any other rights under the Rules, to seek the return of the amount of any additional real money bonus or payment from that player's Account.
    In accordance with the terms specified above, this players account is now closed and any funds contained in the account are forfeit. In addition I am not ruling out the possibility that BigBetPoker will pursue recovery of the outstanding amount ( -$3660.66 (lost through play) + $500 (cashed out)) of $4160.66.

    I hope this satisfies any queries relating to or surrounding this account and should it be necessary to provide detailed analysis I am more than happy to do so.

    Kind regards,
    John

    Head Of Poker
    BigBetPoker.com
     
  26. Oct 24, 2009
  27. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    That's one hell of a glitch. You were lucky not to have been taken for far more.

    You will be VERY lucky to see that $4160 again though, the player could simply say that until you brought it to his attention, he thought he was merely getting the rewards he was expecting from the promotion, and was acting "in good faith" by playing the account "for entertainment".

    You would have to show INTENT, not just that the software malfunctioned. Software malfunction itself would entitle the voiding of play, which means you can void what is still in the account without too many worries.
    I have heard stories about court actions between player and online casino, but not of any that have made it all the way except the one involving William Hill, and a player who sued for the return of losses. This was for an amount in Millions. I believe the player eventually lost, i.e. the court didn't change the position.

    Perhaps this system should have been tested before going live, where this kind of malfunction would have been quickly spotted.

    Information travels fast on the internet, and this player could easily have been a member of one of the "black hat" forums for "abusive play" strategies (extending to fraud), and shared the trick, which would have been executed very quickly so that at least some money could be extracted before it was noticed. In this case, the player was able to extract $500 before you noticed, and had he not been so damn GREEDY upon discovering this bug (suddenly changing playing style) could have harvested a great deal more.
     
  28. Oct 26, 2009
  29. BigBetPoker

    BigBetPoker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Head Of Poker
    Location:
    Netherlands Antillies
    You're correct of course. Actually it wasn't a malfunction with any part of they system, it was a bonus 'coupon' which had been incorrectly set up. It should have been a 'single issue' coupon and ended up being created as a multi use coupon which meant that if the criterea were correct then it would be automatically issued every time the player logged in (as happened in this case).

    The nice thing from my side is that this was a manual issue coupon and was set for a very specific set of circumstances so it only affected 3 players total. This was the only player who took advantage of the issue.
     
  30. Oct 26, 2009
  31. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Occupation:
    Pro Poker Player
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    There has been a lengthy discussion on another forum that Big Bet Poker is an IGS/Futurebet site. Can the rep confirm/deny that report? Are you an IGS white label?
     
  32. Oct 26, 2009
  33. BigBetPoker

    BigBetPoker Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Head Of Poker
    Location:
    Netherlands Antillies
    BigBetPoker is NOT part of IGS /FutureBet

    I am the Head of Poker for BigBetPoker and can categorically state that BigBetPoker is NOTHING to do with IGS/FutureBet or are a white label of anyone.

    We are NOT linked to IGS. We are a separate skin on the Merge Network and are part of a much larger organization who have been in the gaming industry for over 10 years. Our parent company is VIP.com, who has an impeccable reputation amongst players, affiliates, processors, software providers, forums and the industry in general.

    I hope that clears it up.

    Cheers,
    John
     
  34. Oct 30, 2009
  35. pokeraddict

    pokeraddict Webmaster

    Occupation:
    Pro Poker Player
    Location:
    Las Vegas
    I guess the speculation came from having a different processor than Carbon and friends. It made sense but ty for clearing it up.
     
  36. Oct 31, 2009
  37. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Bear in mind that this could happen again whenever a multi-use coupon is created, or especially if this mistake is made again (single use intent, but created as multi-use). It still looks like a software flaw that no "trap" is programmed to catch this kind of "infinite redemption loop" on a mis-created coupon. The player probably noticed the trick because it WAS automated, had they needed to type the coupon code each time, the player would probably not have thought of trying, except perhaps by mistake.


    VIP.com, was that the old VIP casino, used to be a Cryptologic, but changed software, or VIP casinos, which was RTG?
     
  38. Nov 2, 2009
  39. Stefaan

    Stefaan Dormant account

    Occupation:
    affiliate
    Location:
    Belgium
    Hey

    This is just the clearest case of Fraud by a poker player and bigbetpoker is the victem losing a big sum because you just had to take advantage of the situation!

    You shouldn t only get the boot on bigbetpoker but on ALL pokerrooms!

    I run a website and forum for years now and the biggest problem affiliates, players and pokerrooms encounter are players like you!

    You give online Gaming a bad name and then have the ballz to come and complain that they wont pay money you stole????

    In Vegas you would have earned atleast 15-25years prison!

    I have been working with Bigbetpoker from day 1 and i can tell you that the people responsible are very hardworking and HONEST, they have set up some great bonusses that make it easy for affiliates to find players willing to sign up and play, and when i had a talk with these people they confirmed that they have 100s of players like you that try to cheat the system, you know that when u noticed this and you had reported it to them you prob woulda been given a nice reward from John!

    I wish BigBetPoker all the best and hope they get rewarded for the hard work!

    stefaan
     

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