Bonus Complaint Big win on Redbet - for nothing.

jim86

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Location
Sweden
Hi everyone, first post her. Just have to write myself off. The week has been a ride, with a big win and then never a chance to enjoy it... Having a tough time forgetting this! Also curios too see your guys opinion in this case.

But I will start from the beginning:

Last Sunday I deposited 50 euro on Redbet and got a 100% bonus, so total amount to play with 100 euro. The wager requirement was 2 500 euro. I usually play 2-3 euro max as stake, but this time I decided to try a higher bet. I was on the slot Batman, used 5 euro bet, and also a bonus bet (1 euro extra), so total bet was 6 euro. I played the slot 11 times. Total amount staked 66 euro, and total win 14 euro (won two times).

With 50 euros left I tried another slot, James Dean. This time stake was 2.5 euro. Nothing special at the first spins, then suddenly a win of 4 740 euro. I was of course speechless.... After cheering for a brief time I checked the wagering requirement. Around 2 400 euro left to convert. So even after converting (if I lose it all) I should be left with around 2 340 euro.
I started to bet 12 euro just the convert. My winnings this time were nothing special, so I ended at 3 200 euro and withdraw the money. Enjoyed the evening and looking forward to a deposit (on the right side for once)

The next day I got a short e-mail from Redbet. They told me that I had breached the terms and conditions, as you can max bet 5 euro per stake while using a bonus. So they took all the 3 200 euro including my original deposit. I now understand that I breached the terms, however I think it’s terrible how Redbet is acting. They are also telling me that this is an unusual situation – which has to be a lie?

Why don’t Redbet, to avoid these things to happen:
- Lock slots so that you can only bet the max stake – 5 euro.
- Insert a popup while depositing informing about terms and conditions. Max bet while using bonus should be on top so you can’t miss that including wagering requirements.
- If lock slots isn’t possible – a popup before entering a slot or some kind of information, somewhere.

My win of 4 740 was from a correct bet, the stake was not higher than the allowed one. It was when I had 50 euros left which I had deposited – it was never from money that I won using a higher stake. But if you read the terms it’s all crystal clear –betting with higher stake and you are screwed.

When talking to Redbet I wanted to come to a fair deal, both for them and me. I thought that should be easy, as the Casino should have some kind of moral and goodwill. My suggestion were; my win on 4 740 euro minus the wagering requirements – 2 240 euro left for Redbet to pay out. But they hold to their opinion – I breached the rules. It doesn’t matter that the win was on a correct bet.

We all here know the odds to hit a big win. And then actually doing it, and get nothing out of it (other than a nice screenshot), it’s not funny…

It just doesn’t seem like fair play between the gambler and the casino. Spin with a higher stake than 5 euro, win nothing doing it, win doing 2.50 euro stake, then all winning using deposit + bonus is contained by Redbet (including deposit amount?) If my win was on a bet with higher stake than 5 euros – then it would have been another story.

But what do you guys think? Am I just angry about this and Redbets way is the way to go?
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
Sorry, but I don't think you will find a great deal of sympathy here - you should have read all the T&Cs before you started.
This is especially true for bonus offers.
A very important lesson, learned the very hard way.

I hope the guys at Redbet will make some sort of compromise, but I wouldn't be too optimistic about that... :(

KK
 

curremon

Senior Member
PABnononaccred
MM
Joined
Jan 26, 2013
Location
finland
Every day atleast one thread pops up about player breaking clear rules -.-*

READ THE GOD DAMN TERMS BEFORE PUTTING YOUR OWN MONEY ANYWHERE...
 

Harry_BKK

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Location
Balcony
Breaking a rule is breaking a rule, no matter how you put it. Where should the casino draw the line in your opinion? They would be busy all day just handling these kind of cases if they would start watering down their own set terms.

Not reading the T&C's is an inexcusable mistake. I guess you read them in your normal life before signing a contract for expensive things you buy aka you don't just hand over the cash without checking what is in for you.

Redbet has two reps here at CM, albeit not very active but they will receive a notification that they have new messages waiting. Contact them and ask them to review your case, maybe, just maybe they will agree to some compromise, which they don't have to really.

Adam: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/
Marius: https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/members/

Don't take bonuses if you are too lazy to read the rules! Simple!! :rolleyes:
 

lotusch

A little mix of Dutch and Irish
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Location
Dún Dealgan
Oh these great "BONUSSES" casino's throw at ya...
They only screw you over basicly... :thumbsup:

Experienced players will not fall for these sneaky t&c's but luckily for the casino's a lot of players are not so experienced and/or do not read the small letters that come with these "generous" offers from the casino's. :rolleyes:

Thank God I am not a bonus player, would take one very very seldom.
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
I take bonuses 70% of the time, main reasons being a low roller, small budget and looking to extend my play time.

Love my slots spins, love watching those reels turn wild and those diamonds crash in and those 'Wanted' Posters float on all across the reels.

BUT

I'll happily delay all of this for as long as it takes to read the T&C's of a bonus/SUB to make sure when that lucky day arrives, I sleep that night knowing 100% my dosh is under no threats at all and will be in my hand very soon :D
 

lotusch

A little mix of Dutch and Irish
Joined
Jun 3, 2013
Location
Dún Dealgan
I take bonuses 70% of the time, main reasons being a low roller, small budget and looking to extend my play time.

Love my slots spins, love watching those reels turn wild and those diamonds crash in and those 'Wanted' Posters float on all across the reels.

BUT

I'll happily delay all of this for as long as it takes to read the T&C's of a bonus/SUB to make sure when that lucky day arrives, I sleep that night knowing 100% my dosh is under no threats at all and will be in my hand very soon :D

I suppose as a low roller the chances of breaching the max bet rule are very slim anyway, unless you press that max bet button accidently.. :D
 

goatwack

I’ll have the cleavage, I mean the special
CAG
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
Not too much sympathy, I find it strange that a newly-registered player would be that careless with their betting patterns, betting upwards of 10 Euros per spin without checking the terms, considering that highrolling whilst using a bonus from the outset is indicative of bonus abuse, at a time when the player/ casino relationship is at its lowest for years.

They shouldn't pay anything, nor feel compelled to or made to feel like they've done something wrong via a name-shaming post.
 

theslotsking

Experienced Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2013
Location
Australia
I actually disagree.

Casino's want it both ways. They want to lure new customers in and offer enticing bonuses but make it ridiculously hard to actually win anything; either through 30 page t&c's or crazy wagering requirements.

Every week more terms are added and its not for our benefit. Imagine if every time we went to a land based casino we had to scroll through terms. No one would bother.

Casino's say its due to bonus abuse. Personally I think bonuses take the piss out of the regular punter. Any time you are combining your money with a bonus its unlikely you will be withdrawing cash. Some might disagree. The only time I will accept one is when its a non deposit bonus with no restrictions (no withdraw limits).

I think the best thing to do is offer free games, which are based on your deposit ie,

deposit $50 receive 100 free games
deposit $100 receive 200 free games
All winnings are wager free.
 

goatwack

I’ll have the cleavage, I mean the special
CAG
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Location
Londonia
I actually disagree.

Casino's want it both ways. They want to lure new customers in and offer enticing bonuses but make it ridiculously hard to actually win anything; either through 30 page t&c's or crazy wagering requirements.

Every week more terms are added and its not for our benefit. Imagine if every time we went to a land based casino we had to scroll through terms. No one would bother.

Casino's say its due to bonus abuse. Personally I think bonuses take the piss out of the regular punter. Any time you are combining your money with a bonus its unlikely you will be withdrawing cash. Some might disagree. The only time I will accept one is when its a non deposit bonus with no restrictions (no withdraw limits).

I think the best thing to do is offer free games, which are based on your deposit ie,

deposit $50 receive 100 free games
deposit $100 receive 200 free games

All winnings are wager free.

Are they full paylines? :cool:

And please no Starburst or Spinions either!!
 

mina1929

Meister Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Location
Universe
I have learnt that you have to read the t&c's every time you take a bonus even if you play at the same casino a lot as sometimes the rules change.

I take a bonus often and I double check the terms before I play, better to be safe :)
 

mcgameboy

NEVER GO FULL WOKETARD
CAG
mm2
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Belfast
I suppose as a low roller the chances of breaching the max bet rule are very slim anyway, unless you press that max bet button accidently.. :D

The chances of breaching a max bet rule might be slim, but depending on where you take a bonus, you can easily get shafted for an entirely different breach, such as playing on Raging Rhino at 40p or even TS2 at 30p, which is frankly ridiculous.

So even a low roller has to do his/her due diligence on a regular basis. And given the direction that the industry is heading in with regard to bonuses in general, it is now becoming more important than ever to do your homework before you start playing. Even some of the good guys are looking for any opportunity to withhold payments.
 

Jono777

Ueber Meister
CAG
mm1
mm4
Joined
May 13, 2014
Location
Wolverhampton
The chances of breaching a max bet rule might be slim, but depending on where you take a bonus, you can easily get shafted for an entirely different breach, such as playing on Raging Rhino at 40p or even TS2 at 30p, which is frankly ridiculous.

So even a low roller has to do his/her due diligence on a regular basis. And given the direction that the industry is heading in with regard to bonuses in general, it is now becoming more important than ever to do your homework before you start playing. Even some of the good guys are looking for any opportunity to withhold payments.

Where is this please Marty? - I ask because AYK these are 2 of my most played slots :eek:
 

mcgameboy

NEVER GO FULL WOKETARD
CAG
mm2
Joined
Sep 8, 2013
Location
Belfast
Where is this please Marty? - I ask because AYK these are 2 of my most played slots :eek:

The Raging Rhino is an excluded game when playing with bonus funds at Bet365 and Gala. I know that both of those are no longer CM accredited, but they are still trustworthy in my opinion. Never had any issues with withdrawals. But then again, I avoid bonuses there like the plague. Too many banned/excluded games and uncompetitive WR.

The TS2 restriction is at Maria Casino (and if it's excluded at Maria, it's probably excluded at Unibet too - I don't have a Unibet account so I can't be sure about that though). Thunderstruck 1 is also a restricted game when playing with bonus funds at Maria. I have not seen these games appear on an excluded list anywhere else. And tbh, I can't think why they are excluded and games like IR and Agent Jane Blonde are not.

I'm fairly sure none of those casinos are among your regular haunts. But I'd keep an eye out for those, because you never know when some casino will decide to add new games to their excluded list.
 

SlotGrinder

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Location
England
I think a lot of you guys forget how it is to be a new/casual casino customer . You see an enticing advert that says 100% BONUS PLUS FREESPINS !! You don't spend time combing through the terms and conditions because in life as customers we're always faced with ridiculously long lists of terms and conditions written in legal jargon when we purchase anything . And , naively , as a customer you believe that the casino will treat you fairly and sensibly . As a casino customer you can make many deposits and play without ever encountering any problems because a) you might just lose your deposit or b) you might unknowingly not break the T&C's anyway or c) The casino might just allow the withdrawal to go through even if you broke one of the T&C

Have any of you EVER received an email saying "When you made your last deposit and played and lost you broke one of our T&C's so you wouldn't actually have been able to withdraw any winnings ... so keep that in mind for next time" ? No of course not - they wait until you request a decent withdrawal before they spring the T&C's TRAP on you

It's disgusting how they set these traps for the unwary . It sickens me because it's blatantly obvious they could easily prevent any of these T&C breaches happening in the first place by using simple preventative measures and CLEAR AND HIGHLY VISIBLE instructions about the max bet rule and excluded games . But they don't because it's a nice little earner for them and some of you as players even stand up to defend the casinos on this lol . They even decide that it's appropriate to take ALL of your money even if the rule breaches cost them zero or very little , which seems nothing short of theft imo . It's a trap , pure and simple.
 

Jasminebed

Game old gal
Joined
Mar 13, 2008
Location
Ontario
I do have sympathy for the OP, but I do not think Redbet should keep his deposit as well.

I suggest you contact the rep and see if they won't give you a "do-over". Reinstate your deposit and bonus and the original wagering. Read ALL the terms carefully (I think Redbet has some restricted games), and I wish you the best of luck.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
They cannot keep the deposit as the bets are "voided", not changed to result in wins for the casino, or winning bets selectively voided and losing bets allowed to stand.

This is not "an unusual situation" either, it is human psychology. If a gambler has a big win, human nature (for a gambler at least) is to start raising the bet and "playing with the flow of luck". You see this all the time. Another natural behaviour for some gamblers is raising the stake when they are losing, the "chasing behaviour". It's not unusual, but it is more dangerous than raising the stake after a win.

Another part of human nature is to be "in the zone", which is where you are if you are having a session on any game, not just gambling. When "in the zone", you are not thinking "terms and conditions" before each move, because being "in the zone" tends to shut down logical thought processes in favour of more basic adrenaline fuelled urges.

Experienced players are able to learn a modified behaviour so that despite being "in the zone", they are more mindful of the possible pitfalls.

When I hit a monster run at Lucky Nugget and ended with a balance of £66,000 with plenty of WR to go. I stuck rigidly to the same betting levels and patterns as before, as I was mindful of the underlying source of the win, which was a much more modest deposit and bonus, and that it's max bet term would be blown apart if I started to play "in the zone" with this balance by spinning the slots at max bets of £75 to £300 just to hurry things along as well as playing into the luck.

It took me a couple more hours at least to make WR, but I left the casino absolutely no wriggle room to find an excuse to avoid paying.

This is a far better strategy than trying to repair the damage once out of "the zone" and finding that the big withdrawal is being voided due to breaches of the terms.


Of course, casinos are also to blame because they put all these complexities into the terms so that they can preserve the "too good to be true" headline offerings rather than adjust the offerings down to match what they can really afford to risk, and see players walking away in the face of the truth about the generosity of the offer.

As a general rule, the more generous the offer, the more likely it has some nasty pitfalls buried within the terms.
 

SlotGrinder

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2016
Location
England
Sorry, but I don't think you will find a great deal of sympathy here - you should have read all the T&Cs before you started.
This is especially true for bonus offers.
A very important lesson, learned the very hard way.

I hope the guys at Redbet will make some sort of compromise, but I wouldn't be too optimistic about that... :(

KK

So you read ALL the T&C's do you before you start playing ? All those pages and pages of legal mumbo jumbo (for the layman) .

16.2 Gaming Operator’s trademarks, trade names and other symbols included or referenced on the Site (the "Marks") are protected by national and international trademark laws. All use of the Marks is strictly prohibited without Gaming Operator’s prior written approval. The Marks may not be used in connection with any product or service that is not approved by Gaming Operator or in any manner that is likely to cause confusion among customers or that disparages or discredits Gaming Operator. The Player does not obtain any rights in relation to the Marks or any other materials on the Site. A breach of these provisions may entail liability for damages.

So you read the above paragraph before moving onto 16.3 ?

OR do you AS AN EXPERIENCED CASINO USER just scan the T&C's for the likely pitfalls such as max bet rules and excluded games ?

What if you are new to casinos and have no idea that a max bet rule is even a thing ?

I know when I first played on a casino I was surprised when they told me I couldn't withdraw my winnings because of something called "Wagering" ??!? I had never heard of it but after I thought about it I realised that it makes sense that the casino won't just double your money with a bonus and then let you withdraw straight away . I was still surprised at the numbers involved however . I have to wager £1000s just because I got a £50 bonus ? But I accepted it because I was simply informed of this rule and all it meant was that I had to keep playing . Imagine I had tried to withdraw and they said you have broken the rules by trying to withdraw before completing wagering requirements so now we have taken all your money . That's what makes this max bet rule so disgusting . People don't even know they have broken any rules until all their money is confiscated and they have no chance
 

dunover

Unofficial T&C's Editor
Staff member
webmeister
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
CAG
mm3
Joined
May 22, 2012
Location
the bus shelter, opposite GCHQ Benhall
They cannot keep the deposit as the bets are "voided", not changed to result in wins for the casino, or winning bets selectively voided and losing bets allowed to stand.

This is not "an unusual situation" either, it is human psychology. If a gambler has a big win, human nature (for a gambler at least) is to start raising the bet and "playing with the flow of luck". You see this all the time. Another natural behaviour for some gamblers is raising the stake when they are losing, the "chasing behaviour". It's not unusual, but it is more dangerous than raising the stake after a win.

Another part of human nature is to be "in the zone", which is where you are if you are having a session on any game, not just gambling. When "in the zone", you are not thinking "terms and conditions" before each move, because being "in the zone" tends to shut down logical thought processes in favour of more basic adrenaline fuelled urges.

Experienced players are able to learn a modified behaviour so that despite being "in the zone", they are more mindful of the possible pitfalls.

When I hit a monster run at Lucky Nugget and ended with a balance of £66,000 with plenty of WR to go. I stuck rigidly to the same betting levels and patterns as before, as I was mindful of the underlying source of the win, which was a much more modest deposit and bonus, and that it's max bet term would be blown apart if I started to play "in the zone" with this balance by spinning the slots at max bets of £75 to £300 just to hurry things along as well as playing into the luck.

It took me a couple more hours at least to make WR, but I left the casino absolutely no wriggle room to find an excuse to avoid paying.

This is a far better strategy than trying to repair the damage once out of "the zone" and finding that the big withdrawal is being voided due to breaches of the terms.


Of course, casinos are also to blame because they put all these complexities into the terms so that they can preserve the "too good to be true" headline offerings rather than adjust the offerings down to match what they can really afford to risk, and see players walking away in the face of the truth about the generosity of the offer.

As a general rule, the more generous the offer, the more likely it has some nasty pitfalls buried within the terms.

Yes, yes the infamous AWP MG hit. :D
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Yes, yes the infamous AWP MG hit. :D

It still brings a smile to my face, but sadly it will never happen again, so all I can do is enjoy the memories.

I'll need to hit one of the minor progressives in order to experience that kind of hit again.


Just to rub it in, it was from mere £10 bets, the maximum allowed on these games:p

It was also the only one of nearly a dozen withdrawals that year where they didn't pull their 10 day pending BS. One has to wonder why:rolleyes:
 
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