Resolved Betway deceit

tofu23

Banned User
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Location
Sunshine
I PAB about a month back about this Betway matter and as reported today in the Casino warning section Betway have failed to respond. It is time to disclose the facts why I mentioned "Betway" and "deceit" in the same breath. I will let the reader decide whether "fraud" is a more appropriate term.

Betway use MG casino SW and the basic ClearPay bonus system. They offerred a $1000 100% match player SUB with weighted bonus clearing such as 100% Slots , 50% Roulette (now 10%) and so on.

I went for a $200 SUB and started to play slots. After accumulating loyalty points I was able to verify that I had wagered over $600. But my bonus balance remained unmoved from the original $200.

I queried CS and the email response was confusing to me:

"As for you questions regarding the wagering in the Loyalty program and the Casino bonus.

The Casino welcome bonus will only be released once you start wagering the bonus money in your account which is $200.

You have only wagered your real money at the moment.
That is why you have received the Loyalty points which you eventually can turn into Bonus cash.

You are correct that the bonus is reduced $10 per every $300 wagered but this is when you playing through your
Bonus Cash."


Not accepting the reality (or truth) of those statements I pressed for further clarification and received:

"What you wager with your real money has nothing to do with what you wager with your bonus money.

Please be aware, in order to start using your bonus money you can't have any real funds on your casino account."


Now I was really perplexed at this point. The published T+Cs were fairly standard MG ClearPlay and implied nothing of the kind quoted in the emails above. I decided to further test the Betway bonus system by wagering an additional $1,200 on French Roulette which then had a 50% weighted bonus clearing rate.

Again my bonus balance did not move from $200 whereas it should have been down to $160 as per the published ClearPay T+Cs. Much to my horror I was beginning to realise that Betway had in fact manipulated the MG ClearPay to operate in the exact manner as described in the emails above.

I protested the absurdity of the situation and the response follows:

"Thank you for contacting Betway about our terms and conditions of the Casino welcome bonus.

As you wrote in your previous email,

"What this affectively means is that the Player can never clear the bonus until the cash balance has been exhausted. You have to lose your entire cash deposit before the bonus wagering can even be commenced. And you can not make a withdrawal until the wagering requirements have been met".

This is how the Casino bonus is working and in the Terms and Conditions you can read that the bonus will not be wagered until you start playing with the bonus balance. It is also stated that if you have a cash balance in your account this will automatically be used before the Bonus money.

As it is stated in the terms and conditions,
"All Winnings using the Bonus Balance will top up your Bonus Balance to the original bonus/es amount (less any movements from the Bonus Balance to the Cash Balance), and the excess winnings will be added to your Cash Balance."

Please read the terms and conditions for this offer:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


We wish you a nice Sunday,

Kind regards,

Eva @ Betway"


Betway had somehow tampered with the MG bonus system to prevent ANY clearing of the bonus until ALL the cash balance funds had been lost.

Furthermore, as each $10 of bonus funds are then shifted to the cash balance, then that cash $10 would need to be lost before the player can further clear the remaining bonus balance.

In simple terms the player will lose his entire cash and bonus balance on every single occasion.

I invite readers to conclude that Betway have set out to deceive. I am of the opinion that it is clear cut 100% fraud. I was induced to deposit on the promise of contrived bonus T+Cs that Betway had no intention of honoring. Furthermore, Betway designed (tampered with) a bonus system that ensured the player could not win ANY money - the player had to lose no matter what.

It surprises me not that Betway have declined to respond to the PAB.

I am considering my options together with an approach to the licensee MicroGaming in a case that in my view is pure 100% criminal fraud.

..
 

tristan727

Banned user - violation of <a href="http://www.ca
Joined
May 31, 2006
Location
London
Is all very strange...

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


You are not allowed to withdraw your initial deposit before you have played through the bonus.
You have to play through your Bonus 30 times before you can withdraw;


but then....

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Your Cash Balance may be withdrawn from your gaming account at any time.
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
If Betway had really tampered with the EZ Bonus system, this is downright fraud. In fact, there is something wrong with the MG bonus system as another MG casino seems to have tampered with it also and wagering requirements from previous bonuses are now carried over though you have lost every cent of it and the balance is a big fat zero.

I hope that Tofu can at least get his deposit back. With such a ridiculous bonus system, who can win?
 

Jufo

Three-toed sloth
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Location
Finland
WOW! I was just about to play this bonus with full $1000 deposit. Now I am glad I didn't have time to do it yet. I have heard players having no problems with cashing out with the bonus so it seems they have done this tampering very recently.

Even without the tampering, the game weightings are so bad that you are expected to lose the whole bonus amount and half of your deposit while completing the WR on Table poker.
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


A player’s casino account balance is divided into a cash balance and a bonus balance.

When your gaming account is credited with a promotional bonus, these credits will be added to your “Bonus Balance”.

All Winnings using the Bonus Balance will top up your Bonus Balance to the original bonus/es amount (less any movements from the Bonus Balance to the Cash Balance), and the excess winnings will be added to your Cash Balance.

Your Cash Balance may be withdrawn from your gaming account at any time.

Money which has been played through has qualified as cash, therefore can be withdrawn at any time.



Your Bonus Balance may not be withdrawn from your gaming account.


Thats fine, I am assuming you are only withdrawing from the cash balance.

As you meet the play-through / wagering requirement of the promotion bonus you received, your Bonus Balance will decreased in $10 increments and be added to your Cash Balance.
This states that once the $10 increments are added to the cash balance, you can now withdraw it as cash and buy yourself a new donkey jacket.

If you do so however, the bonus balance which has not met the playthrough requirements will be forfeited.


Betway.com Casino Promotions department will be the sole judge in respect of honoring any promotional offer.

This statement is important. Unless they honor the deal, I vote for rogued. The promo terms have been met. Now they cannot withdraw the offer in retrospect.
 

Jufo

Three-toed sloth
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Location
Finland
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Money which has been played through has qualified as cash, therefore can be withdrawn at any time.

Nope they don't allow that. They allow withdrawal only when bonus balance has been played to zero.

This states that once the $10 increments are added to the cash balance, you can now withdraw it as cash and buy yourself a new donkey jacket.

If you do so however, the bonus balance which has not met the playthrough requirements will be forfeited.

Unfortunately they don't allow this at all. From their page:

"You are not allowed to withdraw your initial deposit before you have played through the bonus."

This statement is important. Unless they honor the deal, I vote for rogued. The promo terms have been met. Now they cannot withdraw the offer in retrospect.

It seems to be common practice accross MG casinos nowadays that you have to complete the bonus wagering requirements. However it is rogue to make it impossible to finish bonus wagering requirements like they seem to have done here by tampering the system.
 

Mallorca

Experienced Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2004
Location
Stockholm
Hello,
I have just emailed Betway and let them know about this thread.I also made a deposit and the welcome bonus should be credited to my casino account today.Let`s hope that someone from Betway explains us exactly how their welcome bonus works.
 

GaryWatson

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 15, 2007
Location
Europe
As you meet the play-through / wagering requirement of the promotion bonus you received, your Bonus Balance will decreased in $10 increments and be added to your Cash Balance.

If you make a withdrawal, your Bonus Balance is reset to zero. This means that if you choose to withdraw any portion of your Cash Balance and you still have a Bonus Balance, your remaining Bonus Balance will be forfeit.

It states remaining balance.


Bonus amounts credited to a Players Bonus Balance are subject to thirty (30) times play-through / wagering before they may be cashed in.

For any wager made, the wager is deducted from your Cash Balance first. If there is no cash available, then the wager is deducted from the Bonus Balance.

The wagering/playthrough is met using cash first.



I think the email tofu23 received was inaccurate, not the terms itself.
 

lauram

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Location
toronto
I just read the terms i dunno im old i was getting if you deposit 1000 and have a playthrough of 30 that means you have to bet 30,000 before your bonus amount lowers. Now as i say that i did read your cash balance may be removed at any time but not you bonus amount.
 

hakapuku

Banned User - repeated violations of rule 1.14 (tr
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Location
UA
That is unbelievable story! But, don't count on Microgaming to help you. From my experience big software prviders like Microgaming and Playtech are very unresponsive to any players queries which make me think they are just a part of all these deceiving tactics by the casinos.

P.S. these days when I see any casino offering huge bonuses- it makes me be very careful. Even in much much better days long time ago 1000 USD bonus would be considered a huge bonus. And look who is offering it- not a really big name in this industry- Betwaycasino. It is very similar to the huge bonus which Maxima casino was offering for almost a year (200 euro deposit and 600 euro bonus). As a result- a lot of players deceived, maxima casino changes its name and playtech is absolutely silent. A close friend of mine won 2000 euro at Maxima casino. He was refused his winnings on false pretext of bonus abuse. When he complained to playtech the answer was that Playtech doesn't deal with any bonus connected players quieries . Can you believe it? Rogue casinos use bonuses in their evil tactics and Playtech doesn't care.
 

wobble33

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
uk
maxd

have you read this:what: i mean this is a total joke off a mg casino, something needs to be done, and very quickly if this is the case?
 

maxd

Complaints (PAB) Manager
Staff member
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Location
Saltirelandia
have you read this ....

Been on this one for a while now. I think it was because of the failed PAB that the OP came in here to begin with. And then, like Uungy said, we posted the Warning.

The bottom line is that these guys wouldn't even read our emails to them, they simply deleted them out of hand. If that doesn't tell you what kind of Customer Service you can expect from them I don't know what would. Way, WAY not recommended!
 

chuchu59

gambling addict
PABnonaccred
CAG
Joined
Sep 26, 2004
Location
SOMEWHERE IN ASIA
I noticed that Betway has just joined the forum as a new member. Hopefully, with this bump they can give some sort of response. It's a shame they are behaving so disgracefully as I have had some good experiences with them over the past year.
 

Jufo

Three-toed sloth
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Location
Finland
Does anybody know if the bonus problem has been fixed because I am waiting to play that 1000$ bonus at Betway. But I am not going to do it if it means that you have to lose everything with 100% probability :p
 

tofu23

Banned User
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Location
Sunshine
Does anybody know if the bonus problem has been fixed because I am waiting to play that 1000$ bonus at Betway. But I am not going to do it if it means that you have to lose everything with 100% probability :p

What may have not been explicit in my OP is my deep suspicion that Betway picked their mark. It maybe that not every account suffers the same Bonus crunching fate.

Being relatively young, female and from a second world Asian country did me no favors. An easy mark I think in most circumstances.

Jufo you need to assess your gaming risk plus the risk of not getting paid plus the risk of having the rules rigged from under your feet. Lots of risk.

Betway are members of this Forum now. Let them step forward and offer an account of themselves and their behavior. Let them deny the facts as laid out in the OP. Let them speak. Continuing silence is ominous indeed.
 

betway support

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
London
betway Bonus

Quite so, and I've notified them of this thread in case it had escaped their attention.

Hi all,

Firstly, I'd like to apologize for the time it took to reply. I would also like to apologize to the players that emailed betway support and didn't get a reply.

We recently did some major updates to betway.com changing and upgrading various parts of the site, including our contact center mailing system.

Due to the changes we had delays of up to 4 days in replying to players queries. Undoubtedly, some emails may have never been received or may have been lost inadvertently which would explain why some queries did not get answered.

Now to the main reason we're posting in the Forum:

It seems that there was a misunderstanding between tofu23 and the agent that replied to him. The wording in the agent's reply has been misconstrued.

I will try to explain in as much detail as possible how the first deposit bonus system works.

* You make a first deposit (in this case we'll use a 100% up to $1000)
* You email bonus@betway.com with the words Casino Welcome Bonus in the subject field
* betway will match your first deposit with up to $1,000 in Bonus Cash
* This added Bonus cash is added to your Bonus Balance not your Real money balance
* Your Bonus Balance may not be withdrawn but your Cash Balance may be withdrawn at any time
* By withdrawing any portion of your Cash Balance you forfeit any remaining bonus balance you have
* All winnings using your Cash Balance will be added to your Cash Balance
* All Winnings using the Bonus Balance will top up your Bonus Balance to the original bonus/es amount (less any movements from the Bonus Balance to the Cash Balance), and the excess winnings will be added to your Cash Balance.
* For any wager made, the wager is deducted from your Cash Balance first. If there is no cash available, then the wager is deducted from the Bonus Balance. This effectively means that credits in the Players bonus balance are only played if there is no cash balance.
* As you meet the play-through / wagering requirement of the promotion bonus you received, your Bonus Balance will decreased in $10 increments and be added to your Cash Balance.

I hope the above explains our Bonus system.

The above information is available in our Bonus Rules.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Feel free to post any questions you may have. We will try our best to reply as soon as possible.

If you are a betway.com customer, remember to post your username or alias.

Thank you all for your continued support.

Regards,

betway support
 

betway support

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
London
I PAB about a month back about this Betway matter and as reported today in the Casino warning section Betway have failed to respond. It is time to disclose the facts why I mentioned "Betway" and "deceit" in the same breath. I will let the reader decide whether "fraud" is a more appropriate term.

Betway use MG casino SW and the basic ClearPay bonus system. They offerred a $1000 100% match player SUB with weighted bonus clearing such as 100% Slots , 50% Roulette (now 10%) and so on.

I went for a $200 SUB and started to play slots. After accumulating loyalty points I was able to verify that I had wagered over $600. But my bonus balance remained unmoved from the original $200.

I queried CS and the email response was confusing to me:

"As for you questions regarding the wagering in the Loyalty program and the Casino bonus.

The Casino welcome bonus will only be released once you start wagering the bonus money in your account which is $200.

You have only wagered your real money at the moment.
That is why you have received the Loyalty points which you eventually can turn into Bonus cash.

You are correct that the bonus is reduced $10 per every $300 wagered but this is when you playing through your
Bonus Cash."


Not accepting the reality (or truth) of those statements I pressed for further clarification and received:

"What you wager with your real money has nothing to do with what you wager with your bonus money.

Please be aware, in order to start using your bonus money you can't have any real funds on your casino account."


Now I was really perplexed at this point. The published T+Cs were fairly standard MG ClearPlay and implied nothing of the kind quoted in the emails above. I decided to further test the Betway bonus system by wagering an additional $1,200 on French Roulette which then had a 50% weighted bonus clearing rate.

Again my bonus balance did not move from $200 whereas it should have been down to $160 as per the published ClearPay T+Cs. Much to my horror I was beginning to realise that Betway had in fact manipulated the MG ClearPay to operate in the exact manner as described in the emails above.

I protested the absurdity of the situation and the response follows:

"Thank you for contacting Betway about our terms and conditions of the Casino welcome bonus.

As you wrote in your previous email,

"What this affectively means is that the Player can never clear the bonus until the cash balance has been exhausted. You have to lose your entire cash deposit before the bonus wagering can even be commenced. And you can not make a withdrawal until the wagering requirements have been met".

This is how the Casino bonus is working and in the Terms and Conditions you can read that the bonus will not be wagered until you start playing with the bonus balance. It is also stated that if you have a cash balance in your account this will automatically be used before the Bonus money.

As it is stated in the terms and conditions,
"All Winnings using the Bonus Balance will top up your Bonus Balance to the original bonus/es amount (less any movements from the Bonus Balance to the Cash Balance), and the excess winnings will be added to your Cash Balance."

Please read the terms and conditions for this offer:
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


We wish you a nice Sunday,

Kind regards,

Eva @ Betway"


Betway had somehow tampered with the MG bonus system to prevent ANY clearing of the bonus until ALL the cash balance funds had been lost.

Furthermore, as each $10 of bonus funds are then shifted to the cash balance, then that cash $10 would need to be lost before the player can further clear the remaining bonus balance.

In simple terms the player will lose his entire cash and bonus balance on every single occasion.

I invite readers to conclude that Betway have set out to deceive. I am of the opinion that it is clear cut 100% fraud. I was induced to deposit on the promise of contrived bonus T+Cs that Betway had no intention of honoring. Furthermore, Betway designed (tampered with) a bonus system that ensured the player could not win ANY money - the player had to lose no matter what.

It surprises me not that Betway have declined to respond to the PAB.

I am considering my options together with an approach to the licensee MicroGaming in a case that in my view is pure 100% criminal fraud.

..

Hi tofu23,

Could you please post your betway username or alias so I can look up your account details?

Regards,

betway support
 

tofu23

Banned User
Joined
Apr 11, 2008
Location
Sunshine
Without re quoting the original Betway representative's post let me say that everything explained regarding just how the MG ClearPay Bonus System is suppose to work is widely understood by regular Players (and apparently now by the Betway representative).

The point of my complaint is that Betway applied a different set of bonus T+Cs from those published as is explicitly stated in the emails quoted.

Nothing has been misconstrued.

Please point out exactly where in the quoted email excerpts there is room for misconstruction.

No less than three different Betway CSR emphatically state without equivocation that the bonus WRs can ONLY be cleared from the bonus balance. Such a position was fully confirmed by my actual playing experience.

The Betway post above directly contradicts the position established by the 3 X Betway CSRs and the reality of my play at Betway.

These is no room for the Betway representative to label any of this as simply "misconstrued". It is black and white.

Let's have the truth out in the open. I am communicating my username to the Betway representative for further investigation and comment.

.
 

betway support

Dormant account
Joined
May 23, 2008
Location
London
Incident report

More Betway problems reported here this time on the SportsBook side:

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


..

Hi tofu23,

After an investigation into your account we've found the following:

* You made a first deposit of $200 on the 06/04/08 at 01:55 CET
* You were given a Casino Welcome Bonus of $200 on the same day
* You purchased Casino chips of the same amount and wagered $1,200 on French Roulette and $633.80 on "Ladies Night" slot machine.
* You then made a withdrawal of $116 on the 02/05/08 which was sent to you on the same day.

The above wagering released a total of $27 of your Bonus Cash and converted it to Real cash.

Due to the updates and changes made to the site the system did not automatically calculate the bonus amount which is why you didn't receive any cash.

This has now been rectified and the amount credited to your account.

We will also be reviewing the misleading T&C and simplifying the wording.

I hope the above clarifies your query. Please feel free to contact betway at any time or post any further queries you may have in this forum.

Best regards,

betway support
 
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