QuestionBetting systems: How many gamblers have a system when betting?

Royce

Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag
Hi,
This question has nothing to do with a complaint about a casino I made earlier, it's just a question.

I am not a regular gambler, I just play from time to time, but I am asking myself this question: What is the percentage of those who gamble have a system in gambling? For example, betting higher if they win, or higher if they loose, etc...

Does any betting system increase the chance to win a 200 dollars out of a 100? Well for this last question I would also like to get your opinion, but I am pretty sure, and this could be made by a mathematical demonstration, that to win a 200 dollars out of a 100, on 50-50 chance game, you have 50% percent chance to win 200, and 50% chance to loose the 100. To make a balance reach 400 dollars, whatever the system was, on a 50-50 chance game, you take the risk of 75% loosing it all and 25% to win 400.

Yet if somebody is interested in the mathematical demonstration that yields to these results I stated above, I am also interested in that and we can make research and go into further details.

But the thing of having a system is just here to increase the time passed on gambling, such as to have more fun. If you go to a casino with 100 dollars in your pocket, if you only want to gamble, it's better to bet it all at once at one time. Otherwise, you should make some system for yourself to pass your time more in a casino...

dionysus

CAG
MM
Here's the problem: think of a coin. It's a 50/50 shot of coming down heads or tails, right? So if you flip a coin 9 times, and it hit heads 9 times, what are the chances of it coming down tails on the next flip? Still 50/50.
The coin has no memory. You could exhaust a bankroll waiting for the other side, other number, other colour etc.

Royce

Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag
Here's the problem: think of a coin. It's a 50/50 shot of coming down heads or tails, right? So if you flip a coin 9 times, and it hit heads 9 times, what are the chances of it coming down tails on the next flip? Still 50/50.
The coin has no memory. You could exhaust a bankroll waiting for the other side, other number, other colour etc.

That's it!!!! That's why no system increases the chances to win. Having a system in betting is exactly the same as not having a system in betting, exactly the same as betting your whole bankroll on one roulette spin.

On what will the system be based? on previous results? The chance will be always 50/50. An automatic system whatever the results are? MATH demonstrates that we have exactly the same chances to bet 100 dollars all at once and see if we will win 200, or spend the whole day betting one dollar or 2 each time until our balance reaches 200. In either case, the percentage is exactly 51% chance to loose the 100 dollars, and 49% chance to win 200, in best cases (if we suppose the advantage of the casino is 1%, yet in most games the advantage of the casino is more)

Nifty29

Dormant account
Hi,
This question has nothing to do with a complaint about a casino I made earlier, it's just a question.

I am not a regular gambler, I just play from time to time, but I am asking myself this question: What is the percentage of those who gamble have a system in gambling? For example, betting higher if they win, or higher if they loose, etc...

Does any betting system increase the chance to win a 200 dollars out of a 100? Well for this last question I would also like to get your opinion, but I am pretty sure, and this could be made by a mathematical demonstration, that to win a 200 dollars out of a 100, on 50-50 chance game, you have 50% percent chance to win 200, and 50% chance to loose the 100. To make a balance reach 400 dollars, whatever the system was, on a 50-50 chance game, you take the risk of 75% loosing it all and 25% to win 400.

Yet if somebody is interested in the mathematical demonstration that yields to these results I stated above, I am also interested in that and we can make research and go into further details.

But the thing of having a system is just here to increase the time passed on gambling, such as to have more fun. If you go to a casino with 100 dollars in your pocket, if you only want to gamble, it's better to bet it all at once at one time. Otherwise, you should make some system for yourself to pass your time more in a casino...

Systems do not improve the odds of winning.

In my experience, the factors that affect your chances of striking a balance between a winning session and a reasonable amount of entertainment (in regards to time) are:

1. Bankroll management. Vitally important.

2. Set cashout level i.e. a "goal" amount, which will vary depending on your deposit. When you reach your goal (mine is 5x deposit), cashout everything except your original deposit amount...that way you can keep playing for a while and still be a winner.

3. Set maximum deposit level. Don't spend more than you planned.

4. Select games with a high RTP.

5. Bet according to your bankroll. As a rule, you should allow your deposit to cover 150-200 spins. E.g. if you deposit \$100, you should be betting no more than .50-.75c per spin (at least as a starting point).

6. NEVER EVER EVER EVER REVERSE!! (EVER)

7. Never play when you are tired, drunk, or in a bad or depressed mood. If you find this is when you gamble most, you should seek professional help.

8. Buy something with your winnings. At least you will have something concrete to enjoy, even if you lose your shirt afterwards.

I'm sure there are lots more, but I will let some others add their thoughts.

Oh yeah....and NEVER buy systems etc from anyone. If they were that amazing and foolproof, fools wouldn't need to sell them to make a living!

7.

Royce

Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag
Of course no system improves the odds of winning. Any normal person with a minimum of logic in his head can understand that.

I agree not to gamble when you're drunk because for example you don't want to hit on a 20 in a blackjack. But for games such as baccarat and roulette I think drunk or not it makes no sense

As for me, I never ever ever play online casinos already... So no cashout no deposit... i have a budget for gambling and once or two in a year I go to a casino. Either baccarat if I can afford otherwise roulette and blackjack. I take no credit card with me, just the cash. Then if I loose quickly I'm obliged to leave...
Bankroll managment is of course useful for him who gambles regularly especially online because you don't want to loose your deposit each time you gamble.

dinahbrand

Dormant account
My system is to just play until my eyes glaze over from looking at the pretty graphics and getting sleepy.

I bet small and try to set a time when i can play for a few hours without anyone bothering me which is rare. Believe it or not I have won that way. It is all random chance

Royce

Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag
My system is to just play until my eyes glaze over from looking at the pretty graphics and getting sleepy.

I bet small and try to set a time when i can play for a few hours without anyone bothering me which is rare. Believe it or not I have won that way. It is all random chance

Yes it is! I totally agree!

Cogge

Full Member
MATH demonstrates that we have exactly the same chances to bet 100 dollars all at once and see if we will win 200, or spend the whole day betting one dollar or 2 each time until our balance reaches 200. In either case, the percentage is exactly 51% chance to loose the 100 dollars, and 49% chance to win 200, in best cases (if we suppose the advantage of the casino is 1%, yet in most games the advantage of the casino is more)

Actually, the odds of betting \$100 at once and quitting when you hit \$200 are much greater than if you bet in increments of \$1. I.e. you have a much higher chance of actually leaving the casino with \$200 if you bet it all at once. (For it to be the same house edge, you would have to win all of your first 100 \$1 bets). Now, you'll get a lot more enjoyment out of betting \$1, which you pay for by limiting your potential winnings.

jjjudge

Dormant account
may I ask what are you playing?

Are these betting stratagies for slots?.....cause all i play is blackjack and you're all going broke quick if this is you blackjack plan...

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
FWIW let me give a little background on this. The OP has filed a PAB wherein he is accused by a casino of having used a "betting strategy" during his bonus play-through. Their Terms expressly forbid the use of "systematic betting strategies" and are clear about the penalties for doing so. The evidence -- mainly his play records -- is clear: without a doubt the OP used Martingale in Baccarat, and more than once.

The OP is trying to argue that:
• because they don't specifically say "Martingale" in the Terms they can't penalise him for using it.
• he was unaware he was using Martingale, and
• even if the Terms do apply to his betting then they should only apply to those specific bets not the rest of his bets during that session.
I have found the OP's arguments unconvincing. Whether the casino's Terms are good or bad he agreed to them when he signed on. If he was unaware that he was using a "betting strategy" then now he knows better. If he was unaware that Martingale would be considered a betting strategy then now he knows better. If he thinks that Terms only apply to the specific bets that violate them then now he knows better. The point is he should have known better in the first place, and I strongly suspect he did.

Public opinion on betting strategies really only applies to whether the casino's Terms are legit or not, not whether the OP violated them, which he did. If you don't like a casino's Terms or can't abide by them then don't agree to them and find somewhere else to play. Coming back later and saying
• "I don't like those Terms" or,
• "those Terms are not reasonable" or,
• "I didn't know I was violating the Terms" or,
• all of the above
is too little and too late. The time to cast your vote on a casino's Terms is before you agree to them: put your money elsewhere and your feelings on the Terms you don't like will be perfectly clear, and you'll have the added advantage of not being subject to them after the fact.

Balthazar

The Governor
The Wizard of Odds' article on betting systems is very interesting if anyone wants to read it:

Westland Bowl

Tin Foil Hat Club Member
PABnonaccred
CAG
FWIW let me give a little background on this. The OP has filed a PAB wherein he is accused by a casino of having used a "betting strategy" during his bonus play-through. Their Terms expressly forbid the use of "systematic betting strategies" and are clear about the penalties for doing so. The evidence -- mainly his play records -- is clear: without a doubt the OP used Martingale in Baccarat, and more than once......

This is the first time I heard of an online casino forbidding use of a betting strategy!! I've always read and heard of "betting systems" which pertain to use of bots or other computer/software systems to play blackjack or other online games. But to say I can't use a Martingale betting strategy or whatever else betting strategy?? Whoa! OF COURSE, I am going to use a betting strategy!!! It's better than stupid random hunch-based Neanderthal betting which it seems this casino is forcing players to do.

By banning use of betting strategies, this casino is in essence admitting that betting strategies work! Whatever your opinion is on the long-term profitability of betting strategies, I reserve my right to bet how much money I want to bet on each and every card hand, spin of the wheel and throw of the die regardless of how much I bet previously. It's MY money!

By the way, "systematic betting strategies" still seems to pertain to computer/software-based betting because of the word "systematic." If the casino forbids using betting strategies like Martingale or other types of progression systems, then they should say so in those words to avoid confusion. THEN I would know this is an ignorant casino and would avoid playing there.

Brooklyn

Dormant account
Deposit. Spin. Lose.

All in that order.

maxd

PAB (Complaints) Manager
Staff member
This is the first time I heard of an online casino forbidding use of a betting strategy!!

Not as unusual as you might think, I've had at least a half-dozen PABs this year wherein the issue was exactly as we see here in this case. Yes, it was in the Terms. And yes, they meant what they said: discernable bettings patterns will get you in the shit.

Does such a Term suck? Undoubtedly. Should a player agree to such Terms? Not for me to say but if they do then they're over a barrel and it's too late to squalk about it when Mr. Bad News arrives.

You may think "systematic" limits such a Term to bots, I see no such restriction implied or intended. You know what they say about assuming.

Royce

Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag
FWIW let me give a little background on this. The OP has filed a PAB wherein he is accused by a casino of having used a "betting strategy" during his bonus play-through. Their Terms expressly forbid the use of "systematic betting strategies" and are clear about the penalties for doing so. The evidence -- mainly his play records -- is clear: without a doubt the OP used Martingale in Baccarat, and more than once.

The OP is trying to argue that:
• because they don't specifically say "Martingale" in the Terms they can't penalise him for using it.
• he was unaware he was using Martingale, and
• even if the Terms do apply to his betting then they should only apply to those specific bets not the rest of his bets during that session.
I have found the OP's arguments unconvincing. Whether the casino's Terms are good or bad he agreed to them when he signed on. If he was unaware that he was using a "betting strategy" then now he knows better. If he was unaware that Martingale would be considered a betting strategy then now he knows better. If he thinks that Terms only apply to the specific bets that violate them then now he knows better. The point is he should have known better in the first place, and I strongly suspect he did.

Public opinion on betting strategies really only applies to whether the casino's Terms are legit or not, not whether the OP violated them, which he did. If you don't like a casino's Terms or can't abide by them then don't agree to them and find somewhere else to play. Coming back later and saying
• "I don't like those Terms" or,
• "those Terms are not reasonable" or,
• "I didn't know I was violating the Terms" or,
• all of the above
is too little and too late. The time to cast your vote on a casino's Terms is before you agree to them: put your money elsewhere and your feelings on the Terms you don't like will be perfectly clear, and you'll have the added advantage of not being subject to them after the fact.

Liar. I did not take any bonus and you know that. I WAS PLAYING WITH MY OWN MONEY WHICH YOU TAKE FROM THE CASINO TO MAKE A GOOD PUBLICITY FOR THEM.
And using martingale on one or two occasions doesn't make a play a systematic betting strategy.

Take a look at this:

And gambing grumbles did send a message to Celtic Casino saying to them it's the first time they hear about any casino forbidding betting strategies. It seems maxd is the one who knows things that nobody does.

Royce

Banned User - flaming moderators - douchebag
This is the first time I heard of an online casino forbidding use of a betting strategy!! I've always read and heard of "betting systems" which pertain to use of bots or other computer/software systems to play blackjack or other online games. But to say I can't use a Martingale betting strategy or whatever else betting strategy?? Whoa! OF COURSE, I am going to use a betting strategy!!! It's better than stupid random hunch-based Neanderthal betting which it seems this casino is forcing players to do.

By banning use of betting strategies, this casino is in essence admitting that betting strategies work! Whatever your opinion is on the long-term profitability of betting strategies, I reserve my right to bet how much money I want to bet on each and every card hand, spin of the wheel and throw of the die regardless of how much I bet previously. It's MY money!

By the way, "systematic betting strategies" still seems to pertain to computer/software-based betting because of the word "systematic." If the casino forbids using betting strategies like Martingale or other types of progression systems, then they should say so in those words to avoid confusion. THEN I would know this is an ignorant casino and would avoid playing there.

This is not an ignorant casino. This is a casino who knows how to steal. Yet unjust people have always existed, but I it is rarely that they don't pay for that. Yet I believe this casino one day will pay.

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Liar. I did not take any bonus and you know that. I WAS PLAYING WITH MY OWN MONEY WHICH YOU TAKE FROM THE CASINO TO MAKE A GOOD PUBLICITY FOR THEM..... It seems maxd is the one who knows things that nobody does.

Some newbie 90 day suspension for dissing a moderator. That's a serious no-go in this town.

Westland Bowl

Tin Foil Hat Club Member
PABnonaccred
CAG
..............The time to cast your vote on a casOíino's Terms is before you agree to them: put your money elsewhere and your feelings on the Terms you don't like will be perfectly clear, and you'll have the added advantage of not being subject to them after the fact.

I agree. I tend to think a casino with terms banning betting strategies such as the Martingale and other progression stategies is a big red flag for a rogue casino.

Mousey

Ueber Meister Mouse
My friend's favorite winning strategy is to wear her socks with little pink pig heads on them when she goes to B&M casinos. Don't laugh. It's no more foolish than casinos thinking betting 'strategies' give a player an edge in a fair game.

labeled

The eagle got Kevin!
It's kind of interesting to think about, just that it'd be pretty easy to get caught using "a system" that you were completely unaware you were using. Blackjack is a good example for me - when I play at brick & mortars I do frequently double my bet if I lose, though I'm pretty bad about not holding to it for long - a few of those bets kills a small bankroll in a hurry.

But the way I play slots sometimes could be called "a system" if a casino wanted to claim it - if I have \$20 or less .20 bets, 20-30- .30, etc. Shady, huh? But a casino with that term could certainly claim it.

nikantw

Banned User
Isn't that Term (and spam mail) the reason CR is not accredited?

"13.Casino reserves the right to withhold any withdrawals and/or confiscate all winnings for irregular play. 'Irregular play' includes but is not limited to any one or more of the following types of play:

i.Placing single bets equal to or in excess of 25% or more of the value of the bonus credited to the account prior to the play-through requirement for that bonus having been met; A single bet in Roulette counts as the total of all chips placed on the table when the wheel is spun.
ii.Using the double-up feature to increase bet values;
iii.Even money bets on Sic Bo, Craps and Roulette
iv.Starting a game's feature after the bonus balance used to build up the credits towards the feature has reached 0."

mrmark21

Dormant Account
You should be able to spend you're money however you want. With or without a strategy. That's my opinion although this casino obviously feels differently and has stated that in their terms and conditions... Take you're money elsewhere and remember to read the T&C's.

What's the name of the casino? I've found the accredited casinos 32 Red and Jackpot City sometimes encourage betting strategies on slots but they are a game of chance, nothing you do can truly tilt the odds in you're favor (except for the gamble feature). They have advised me to stick too only betting 1% of my bankroll (adjusting as needed) and it's definitely helped to extend my game play.

Cogge

Full Member
This is the first time I heard of an online casino forbidding use of a betting strategy!! I've always read and heard of "betting systems" which pertain to use of bots or other computer/software systems to play blackjack or other online games. But to say I can't use a Martingale betting strategy or whatever else betting strategy?? Whoa! OF COURSE, I am going to use a betting strategy!!! It's better than stupid random hunch-based Neanderthal betting which it seems this casino is forcing players to do.

By banning use of betting strategies, this casino is in essence admitting that betting strategies work! Whatever your opinion is on the long-term profitability of betting strategies, I reserve my right to bet how much money I want to bet on each and every card hand, spin of the wheel and throw of the die regardless of how much I bet previously. It's MY money!

By the way, "systematic betting strategies" still seems to pertain to computer/software-based betting because of the word "systematic." If the casino forbids using betting strategies like Martingale or other types of progression systems, then they should say so in those words to avoid confusion. THEN I would know this is an ignorant casino and would avoid playing there.

I agree completely. Besides, everyone uses a betting strategy, I doubt anyone randomly chooses what and how to bet. Any casino should be glad to invite a player who claims to have a strategy, as long as he doesn't play Live Blackjack

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