Bonus Complaint Betsson & Betsafe Not Paying Me LIGITIMATE Winnings

jamaica1981

Banned User
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Location
London
I have just had my second bad experience with a casino within the last couple of months, and when searching around the net, found that others have posted about theirs too, so here is mine. Hopefully word will get round that these b******s should not be trusted.

BETSSON (Most recent)

I like the 'Net Entertainment' software as you don't have to download anything, and you can play the games quickly.
I got a bonus when I signed up of €100 and played through their wagering thing I had to do. I was aware of how this worked as I had received a couple of these at other casinos when I deposited for the first time.

So I finished this wagering and I ended up on around €850, which I withdrew. Then the problems started.

They asked me for government issued photo ID. Again, I had done this a couple of times before so was aware they needed to prove my age. But then they said "Unfortunately our Payments department could not verify your ID copy" and they also asked me for my passport.

I saw absolutly no reason why this should be the case, as my licence is valid, and should be sufficient for them. I assumed (correctly) that they were incompetent, so I told them to recheck it and that I will not send them a passport scan as I don't own one (I did really, but didn't want them to have a scan of it)

But they insisted that my ID was fake and that I had to send them my passport ("Please be so kind to send us a copy of your government issued passport. As soon as we recieve this we are able to complete the verifiaction process on your behalf"), so eventually I gave up and sent them a scan of my passport.

Then they emailed me saying "Our security department has informed us the decision to close your account permanently has been made.
This decision is taken according the our terms and conditions and will stand."

Apparently their T&C's (not sure where, they haven't quoted me anything) can override laws on stealing money from their customers.

I spoke to a guy on the phone who was very rude and arrogant and insisted I had a fake ID. He said he was looking at my ID and told me it is fake, I asked what part and he mentioned the photo. Not sure if he meant the colour of my skin or not. I got very angry and told them I would sue them and let everyone know about how they steal from players.
 

jamaica1981

Banned User
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Location
London
BETSAFE

Again, I liked the Net Entertainment sofware so was playing here also. I also got tempted into their other download casino and received a bonus on my first deposit there.

I got up to a couple of €k and started to play one of the few table games that counted a decent % to their wagering requirement thing. I read their terms which clearly stated that Table Games counted 40%, some other table games that counted a lesser % were mentioned seperatly.

Triple Action Hold'em WAS NOT listed seperatly, therefore counted 40% towards their wagering.

After completing the wagering on this game I then tried to withdraw my winnings, but for some reason the wagering hadn't completed. After speaking to their support I was told that Triple Action Hold'em only counted 10%. When I directed them to their own terms which clearly stated it counted 40%, I was told on email
"The factored wagering for Triple Action Hold’em was changed as of 1st of December, unfortunately it took some time before this was updated on our website due to a delay in our content management system.

So, by their own admission, they hadn't updated their site. I had played (quite rightly) to all the information on their site, yet they still told me they were not going to pay me all my money. After many emails back and forth, they sent me back my winnings, less €400 (around €1200 I think)

Anyway, there's my bitches!
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Betsson are very sound.

If they say your passport is dodgy then it probably is. It doesn't help that you were reluctant to send it either - just makes you look even more dodgy.

You could try the PAB service.

The other issue of incorrect terms on the website does appear legit, assuming everything you say is true.
 

mellakka

Full Member
PABnononaccred
Joined
Mar 30, 2007
Location
Siam
They asked me for government issued photo ID. Again, I had done this a couple of times before so was aware they needed to prove my age. But then they said "Unfortunately our Payments department could not verify your ID copy" and they also asked me for my passport.
.


Bettson is a strange but they are trusted, U said that they have closed the account that sounds a little that ID was fake, if not, try:
Take Good quality pics for your ID from different angles hold it in your hand or on the table, few of pics wrote your signature above. Why the casinos are always looking for scanned most HQ picture of the passport, which can be faked by using the Windows Paint program. If the image taken at different angle it is much more difficult to made a fake and basic Photoshop user's time an impossible task.

Of course you can Also ask in passing certificate of authenticity copy Would it matter, without first asking I'm not to waste money on it unless the payment would be sure
 

Tengil

Senior Member
Joined
May 4, 2006
Location
Finland
Betsson among a few other Netent casinos is known to sometimes ask ridiculous amounts of documents. There are quite a few complaints over the net about it, many from UK players. It usually gets sorted in the end. Just keep pushing and sending in all kinds of docs as mellakka said.

Betsafes decision is roguish, altough thats a very common problem at Netent casinos. You really cant trust the game weightings posted on the site for most of them. Write directly to Netent for starters.
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Hello,

As I have talked to Nifty about before, it is strange how some people "always" seems to get themselves into problems. While most players can gamble for years without a single problem. And here you have two cases.

Your allegations may be correct, or they may be incorrect. You are a new member, so it's just not possible to know based on what you are saying.
 

Repro

Dormant account
PABnonaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 15, 2010
Location
Netherlands
Main thing i can say here is if you like these complaints solved, you should try to PAB.

What you shouldn't do is use bad language and post about this in the forum, because then Max won't be able to handle your PAB correctly.

After reading a lot about Betsson my opinion is that there indeed would be something dodgy about the id's or maybe you signed up earlier on Betsson on a different account.

I don't know anything about Betsafe, but if you are telling the truth i think they should uphold there "old" Triple Action Hold'em count of 40%.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
OP has received a concrete allegation that their ID is fake, so if OP can prove their ID to be genuine, the casino's case falls apart.

From the tale, OP looks like an "advantage player", and one who reads the terms too. The operator realises this, so looks to see if there is any way to wriggle out of payment. Since they already have OP flagged as "advantage player", they are going to take a much closer look at gameplay, and validity of documentation. At this point, they will be looking for signs of non-cooperation from the player, and will take any they find as a sign that they have not just an "advantage player", but a potential "multi-accounter" too.

Operators often run several casinos, and will compare data between them. This allows them to look for patterns of what they consider "abuse", or playing "not in the spirit of the bonus". One classic pointer to this is a player that sequentially signs up at all their sister sites, playing ONLY the welcome bonus, and then moving on - although not against the terms, it is certainly "not in the spirit" of the offers, not something well tolerated here as an excuse for non-payment, so DO PAB.

If Max also finds your ID to be fake, you are screwed, but if he finds the casino's evidence for this insufficient, THEY are in a spot of bother, as suddenly switching excuses once the first has been disproved is another thing that doesn't go down well.

In the meantime STEER CLEAR of ALL Net Ent casinos, as you are likely to be on a software wide "flag" for fraudulent ID.

I also doubt that you are all that "new" to online gambling, given your level of knowledge of "advantage bonus strategy";)
 

jamaica1981

Banned User
Joined
Apr 4, 2011
Location
London
Hello,

As I have talked to Nifty about before, it is strange how some people "always" seems to get themselves into problems. While most players can gamble for years without a single problem. And here you have two cases.

Your allegations may be correct, or they may be incorrect. You are a new member, so it's just not possible to know based on what you are saying.

I don't 'always' get into trouble, like I said, I have played at a few other casinos, these are the problems I have had. I'm sure gamblers can appreciate how some players are unluckier that others.

I can assure you my ID's are not fake. I was quite astounded a registered company would make such an accusation. I will take a scan of my passport at any angle they like, it's real, along with my licence!
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
I tried to check Betsafe's bonus T&C but it mentioned nothing about particular game contribution.

You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.


Jamaca1981 do you have a link where I can view them?

EDIT: My bad I got confused with Casino Red.

Bonus T&C state:

◦Slots, Lottery Games: 100%
◦Table Games: 40%
◦All Triple Action Hold'em games: 10%
◦Black Jack, Roulette, Video Poker, Sic Bo: 5%


When you checked was Triple Action listed as 10%?
If not that's pretty solid proof that the casino is cheating.

2nd EDIT: I just read the rest of your post.
I agree with you on Betsafe. That's completely rogue what they did.
They retro-activly changed their bonus T&C. That's an old trick.

As for the problem with Betsson. I have no idea.
I think maxd or Casinomeister might have some suggestions though.

You should PAB if your able to.
Betsson & Betsafe are not accredited; could make things harder.
 
Last edited:

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I don't 'always' get into trouble, like I said, I have played at a few other casinos, these are the problems I have had. I'm sure gamblers can appreciate how some players are unluckier that others.

I can assure you my ID's are not fake. I was quite astounded a registered company would make such an accusation. I will take a scan of my passport at any angle they like, it's real, along with my licence!

Might as well, even if you don't like the idea. It will give them less scope for claiming your ID is fake.

You could also inform DVLA that a "listed company" has claimed your licence is fake, and express to DVLA that you are not happy that they have supplied you with a licence that does not pass verification checks, as it is accepted by the UK government that the driving license IS an accepted form of Government issued ID in the absence of a formal national ID card. The government do not actually LIKE companies having hold of scanned copies of passports, as a fake passport can cause more risk to "national security" than a fake driving license - which whatever else you can pull off with one, it will NOT get you past border controls. Complaints of this nature should go to the Information Commissioner, who will collect evidence regarding the extent of the problem of private companies DEMANDING passports before releasing the property of the customer, or providing a service. If the government feels the problem is bad enough, laws will be passed that would make it a criminal offence for any private company to ask for, or even receive, a customers' passport.

The problem is down to internet firms being LAZY, and taking the easy route, rather than paying the expense of carrying out it's own INDEPENDENT verification that would not rely on "paper documents".

If you have the newer biometric passport, the risk is lower, because part of the design has removed information from the printed page, rendering a copy less useful to a fraudster. There is now a chip that contains this information, and it is read by a scanner at border crossings.

Recently, the design of the UK drivers license was changed to make it harder to forge. The main change is that the photo is only printed in Black & White, the colour original being held on a DVLA database. This prevents someone from changing the address of a driver to assist in ID theft, as they will have to produce their copy of the colour original of the photo, and cutting out/copying the photo on the document will no longer work (it's B & W).

These changes would also make it harder to scam online casinos with stolen ID documents, but it does NOT stop them from being scammed by completely fake ID documents, which are easily obtained over the internet, along with "make your own" kits.
 

KasinoKing

WebMeister & Slotaholic..
webmeister
PABnonaccred
CAG
MM
Joined
Aug 25, 2004
Location
Bexhill on sea, England
I don't 'always' get into trouble, like I said, I have played at a few other casinos, these are the problems I have had. I'm sure gamblers can appreciate how some players are unluckier that others.

I can assure you my ID's are not fake. I was quite astounded a registered company would make such an accusation. I will take a scan of my passport at any angle they like, it's real, along with my licence!
I don't think you are going to get anywhere with your problem here in this thread.
So I strongly suggest you Pitch-A-Bitch.

First read the PAB FAQ < Click there.
Once you know what is expected of you, Pitch-Your-Bitch!

Good luck, and please come back & tell us the outcome of your PAB when it's finished.

KK
 

Przecinek

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 17, 2007
Location
Respect-land
Betsafe asked me for 2 IDs even tho' my account was verified ages ago.
I've sent them what they asked for and that's the end of the story.

If OPs documents are legit, PAB should help as all in all, this seems like an easy case, that requires just some mediation.
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Yes, I agree with KasinoKing. Do a PAB if you really think you got a case.

Just a comment to vinylweatherman. The Betsson group AB is a Swedish company listed in Stockholm.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Yes, I agree with KasinoKing. Do a PAB if you really think you got a case.

Just a comment to vinylweatherman. The Betsson group AB is a Swedish company listed in Stockholm.

In that case, they had better be RIGHT about the OP's ID being a fake, else it will look bad for them, like they are just trying to find excuses to avoid payment.

On the face of it, looks like they got their butt kicked by an advantage player, and don't want to pay out.
Only a PAB will get to the bottom of this, but as they are not accredited, the "one shot rule" applies. There is also the option of complaining to their licensing body, but if it is Malta, don't bother:rolleyes:
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Yes, their casino lisence is from our "friends" in Malta :rolleyes:

:)
 

zaaaaabaaaaam

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
wonderworld
OP has received a concrete allegation that their ID is fake, so if OP can prove their ID to be genuine, the casino's case falls apart.

From the tale, OP looks like an "advantage player", and one who reads the terms too. The operator realises this, so looks to see if there is any way to wriggle out of payment. Since they already have OP flagged as "advantage player", they are going to take a much closer look at gameplay, and validity of documentation. At this point, they will be looking for signs of non-cooperation from the player, and will take any they find as a sign that they have not just an "advantage player", but a potential "multi-accounter" too.

Operators often run several casinos, and will compare data between them. This allows them to look for patterns of what they consider "abuse", or playing "not in the spirit of the bonus". One classic pointer to this is a player that sequentially signs up at all their sister sites, playing ONLY the welcome bonus, and then moving on - although not against the terms, it is certainly "not in the spirit" of the offers, not something well tolerated here as an excuse for non-payment, so DO PAB.

If Max also finds your ID to be fake, you are screwed, but if he finds the casino's evidence for this insufficient, THEY are in a spot of bother, as suddenly switching excuses once the first has been disproved is another thing that doesn't go down well.

In the meantime STEER CLEAR of ALL Net Ent casinos, as you are likely to be on a software wide "flag" for fraudulent ID.

I also doubt that you are all that "new" to online gambling, given your level of knowledge of "advantage bonus strategy";)

All of above is very true.

If you are flagged you are flagged. Correct me if I am wrong but you do seem to be an advantage player - one who casinos want no action from.
 

zaaaaabaaaaam

Dormant account
Joined
Jan 13, 2011
Location
wonderworld
Hello,

As I have talked to Nifty about before, it is strange how some people "always" seems to get themselves into problems. While most players can gamble for years without a single problem. And here you have two cases.

Your allegations may be correct, or they may be incorrect. You are a new member, so it's just not possible to know based on what you are saying.

I do not think this is very strange. There are a quite a few things that makes security raise their eyebrows. IP/cookie match, country of residence (countries where a lot of bonus abusers reside), password match, CC match and so on.. So I mean if you are a shitty table games player or a regular slot spinner from a Nordic country then you will rarely get any hassle from security at any casino..
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
I don't 'always' get into trouble, like I said, I have played at a few other casinos, these are the problems I have had. I'm sure gamblers can appreciate how some players are unluckier that others.

I can assure you my ID's are not fake. I was quite astounded a registered company would make such an accusation. I will take a scan of my passport at any angle they like, it's real, along with my licence!
Bullshit - jamaica1981 is a fraudster. Directly connected to this account - jackieonweb - busted out here: http://www.casinomeister.com/forums...asino-confusing-bonus-terms-do-you-agree.html
 
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