Betsafe do you want a DNA sample

[gia]

This casino is atrocious. I have played at online casino's for many years. I opened a Betsafe account won a little and made a withdrawal request. I was asked for a copy of my passport, a copy of the front and back of my debit card, ok no problem this is pretty standard for most casino's, but I was also asked to send in a screenshot of my Neteller account, and a copy of my bank statement showing the transaction made to them. Never in all the time I have played online have I been asked to submit such sensitive personal information.

I only used my debit card because Neteller was down at the time. They have had previous deposits from me via Neteller. After contacting support I was told all my docs were fine, but they could not verify the account without the bank statement as they need to see the debit card transaction to them on there, which I could not send as the transaction does not show up yet, it takes a few days. Support also told me they had to have the statement as it is in their Terms and Conditions, this is what I found:

2.26
Prior to effecting a withdrawal, Betsafe may request the user to provide legal identification documents including certified copies of passports, national identity cards or any other form of identification Betsafe shall deem fit at its own discretion. In the event that the User has deposited funds using a credit cards or in the event that the withdrawal shall be to a credit card, Betsafe may request for copies of the front and back of the said credit card. Betsafe strongly encourages that in such cases the User ensures that only the first six (6) Digits and the last four (4) Digits of the card are visible for the User’s own protection. CVV/CVV2 number at the back of the card, should also not be visible. ( I did not use a credit card)

Betsafe reserves the right to carry out verification procedures, whether itself or through third parties, and an Account may be blocked or closed if found to contain false or misleading information. Betsafe reserves the right to request the User to produce official documents to prove his identity. Betsafe also reserves the right to request for address verification by asking for copies of utility bills, banks statements or any other document Betsafe deems fit. In the event that the User refuses or does not produce any such documents requested in accordance with this clause, Betsafe will be entitled to block the Account. ( They do not want the statement for address verification, I can provide them with that right now with a utility bill, they want it to see the transaction)

I really object to this kind of behaviour from casino's, they have more than enough of my ID to verify my account,they have the back and front of my debit card, a copy of my passport and a screenshot of my Neteller account (verified and VIP) and they seem to be deliberately making withdrawing as difficult as possible.

 

[vinylweatherman]

This casino is atrocious. I have played at online casino's for many years. I opened a Betsafe account won a little and made a withdrawal request. I was asked for a copy of my passport, a copy of the front and back of my debit card, ok no problem this is pretty standard for most casino's, but I was also asked to send in a screenshot of my Neteller account, and a copy of my bank statement showing the transaction made to them. Never in all the time I have played online have I been asked to submit such sensitive personal information.

I only used my debit card because Neteller was down at the time. They have had previous deposits from me via Neteller. After contacting support I was told all my docs were fine, but they could not verify the account without the bank statement as they need to see the debit card transaction to them on there, which I could not send as the transaction does not show up yet, it takes a few days. Support also told me they had to have the statement as it is in their Terms and Conditions, this is what I found:

2.26
Prior to effecting a withdrawal, Betsafe may request the user to provide legal identification documents including certified copies of passports, national identity cards or any other form of identification Betsafe shall deem fit at its own discretion. In the event that the User has deposited funds using a credit cards or in the event that the withdrawal shall be to a credit card, Betsafe may request for copies of the front and back of the said credit card. Betsafe strongly encourages that in such cases the User ensures that only the first six (6) Digits and the last four (4) Digits of the card are visible for the User’s own protection. CVV/CVV2 number at the back of the card, should also not be visible. ( I did not use a credit card)

Betsafe reserves the right to carry out verification procedures, whether itself or through third parties, and an Account may be blocked or closed if found to contain false or misleading information. Betsafe reserves the right to request the User to produce official documents to prove his identity. Betsafe also reserves the right to request for address verification by asking for copies of utility bills, banks statements or any other document Betsafe deems fit. In the event that the User refuses or does not produce any such documents requested in accordance with this clause, Betsafe will be entitled to block the Account. ( They do not want the statement for address verification, I can provide them with that right now with a utility bill, they want it to see the transaction)

I really object to this kind of behaviour from casino's, they have more than enough of my ID to verify my account,they have the back and front of my debit card, a copy of my passport and a screenshot of my Neteller account (verified and VIP) and they seem to be deliberately making withdrawing as difficult as possible.

This is not standard. It looks like you have already been flagged as a fraudster, and they are digging deep to either clear you of suspicion, or prove to themselves that their "instincts" were right by you not being able to produce the bank statement. They have enough to prove YOUR details, but are not convinced the bank account belongs to you. You normally use Neteller, but suddenly you switch to using a debit card. Now EVERYBODY knows that Neteller can be pretty unreliable at times, and most players have found that when they want to play Neteller is "down for maintenance" without prior notice, and it is impossible to get Neteller to say (and stick to) a time when it will be working again. I have often resorted to a "first use" of a card at a particular casino under these circumstances, but all I have been asked for is a standard copy of back & front of the card on my next withdrawal. I have NOT been asked to send in a copy of a statement, which by their nature can lead to a wait of a month to 6 weeks, depending on where in the statement period a transaction is shown.

Neteller use a different method to verify bank details, which takes only a few days. First, they send a random payment of a few pence, and the customer has to check with their bank and quote the exact amount to prove that they have control of that bank account (i.e. they have not used a stolen card). This does not require waiting for the printed statement, but can be obtained by checking online, or phoning the bank.

Many bank customers no longer get printed statements, and have to order them when needed. This can take even longer, and banks can charge up to £10 to process such a request.

You should get your money, but it will be an irritating wait until your bank sends you that statement.

 

[rainmaker]

.

I found the OP`s title quite funny...DNA sample

 

[gia]

.

I found the OP`s title quite funny...DNA sample

Well LOL this is what I am waiting forthem to ask for next

 

[gia]

This is not standard. It looks like you have already been flagged as a fraudster, and they are digging deep to either clear you of suspicion, or prove to themselves that their "instincts" were right by you not being able to produce the bank statement. They have enough to prove YOUR details, but are not convinced the bank account belongs to you. You normally use Neteller, but suddenly you switch to using a debit card. Now EVERYBODY knows that Neteller can be pretty unreliable at times, and most players have found that when they want to play Neteller is "down for maintenance" without prior notice, and it is impossible to get Neteller to say (and stick to) a time when it will be working again. I have often resorted to a "first use" of a card at a particular casino under these circumstances, but all I have been asked for is a standard copy of back & front of the card on my next withdrawal. I have NOT been asked to send in a copy of a statement, which by their nature can lead to a wait of a month to 6 weeks, depending on where in the statement period a transaction is shown.

Neteller use a different method to verify bank details, which takes only a few days. First, they send a random payment of a few pence, and the customer has to check with their bank and quote the exact amount to prove that they have control of that bank account (i.e. they have not used a stolen card). This does not require waiting for the printed statement, but can be obtained by checking online, or phoning the bank.

Many bank customers no longer get printed statements, and have to order them when needed. This can take even longer, and banks can charge up to £10 to process such a request.

You should get your money, but it will be an irritating wait until your bank sends you that statement.

I totally agree that this is not standard behaviour from a casino. When I went to live chat yesterday to query why they would need a bank statement when they already have so many ID docs from me, and to express to them that I felt very uncomfortable about providing such sensitive personal information to a casino, especially when they already have so much of my info. I was told all the ID docs are fine, not a problem at all, but they had to have this bank statement and that every customer was asked to provide this or they could lose their licence. This was told to me by the finance department at Betsafe, the live chat support guy could not answer my questions so transferred the chat to them. They cannot say they want the statement for address verification as online bank statements that they told me to send them do not have your address on, not mine anyway. And a utility bill would suffice for this.
I also noticed in their terms that if you win over 2000 Euros, even verified accounts that have already provided all this personal info, will have to have further verification checks carried out on them, hence my title, I mean what else can they possibly need except a DNA sample LOL.
Betsafe do have a casino rep here but it appears his account is dormant, so I doubt I will get any response here from them.

 

[rainmaker]

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Oh and by the way, here is a similar Betsafe discussion with some of the same issues :

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betsafe-dont-understand-the-market.44753/

 

[vinylweatherman]

I totally agree that this is not standard behaviour from a casino. When I went to live chat yesterday to query why they would need a bank statement when they already have so many ID docs from me, and to express to them that I felt very uncomfortable about providing such sensitive personal information to a casino, especially when they already have so much of my info. I was told all the ID docs are fine, not a problem at all, but they had to have this bank statement and that every customer was asked to provide this or they could lose their licence. This was told to me by the finance department at Betsafe, the live chat support guy could not answer my questions so transferred the chat to them. They cannot say they want the statement for address verification as online bank statements that they told me to send them do not have your address on, not mine anyway. And a utility bill would suffice for this.
I also noticed in their terms that if you win over 2000 Euros, even verified accounts that have already provided all this personal info, will have to have further verification checks carried out on them, hence my title, I mean what else can they possibly need except a DNA sample LOL.
Betsafe do have a casino rep here but it appears his account is dormant, so I doubt I will get any response here from them.

Can they PROVE this?

The ONLY rule online casinos have to obey are the international money laundering agreements. This means that casinos have to verify the ID of their customers. I am sure that if EVERY casino running under the same jurisdiction was required to get bank statements from EVERY customer we would have heard about it through a wave of complaints.

It looks more like Betsafe are lying about this, and that there is no "requirement" imposed by the licensing jurisdiction to specifically ask every customer for a bank statement. This is probably a purely internal decision, but they are seeking to shift the blame to this faceless licensing jurisdiction, rather than take the responsibilty themselves for implementing this policy.

If they REALLY did this to EVERY customer, they soon wouldn't have any.

 

[gia]

.

Oh and by the way, here is a similar Betsafe discussion with some of the same issues :

https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betsafe-dont-understand-the-market.44753/

Interesting to see that my point about them wanting bank statements to see the transaction made to them and not for address verification purposes as stated in their terms is also mentioned by this poster.

 

[gia]

Can they PROVE this?

The ONLY rule online casinos have to obey are the international money laundering agreements. This means that casinos have to verify the ID of their customers. I am sure that if EVERY casino running under the same jurisdiction was required to get bank statements from EVERY customer we would have heard about it through a wave of complaints.

It looks more like Betsafe are lying about this, and that there is no "requirement" imposed by the licensing jurisdiction to specifically ask every customer for a bank statement. This is probably a purely internal decision, but they are seeking to shift the blame to this faceless licensing jurisdiction, rather than take the responsibilty themselves for implementing this policy.

If they REALLY did this to EVERY customer, they soon wouldn't have any.

Well as the casino rep for Betsafe has a dormant account here, I have just emailed them the link to this post and asked them if they would please respond about the concerns I have regarding their unreasonable requests. On their website it states support emails will be answered within 15 mins or they give you 10 Euros........waiting.......

 

[vinylweatherman]

Software - netEnt (casino)
License - Malta
Reason for needing bank statement - bullshit, it's nothing to do with the LGA saying they have to get bank statements from all their customers, it is purely an internal decision made on a minority of specific accounts they are seeking to shift blame for on to the LGA, who are not known for their abilty to police their licensees when it comes to protecting players from rogue behaviour.

NetEnt are considered pretty solid, and in general their casinos generate few complaints. It seems Betsafe is a "loose cannon" in the NetEnt stable, having generated TWO complaints of a similar nature in a relatively short period of time. They may have an over zealous internal security team, but are not willing to take responsibilty for this, so are trying to shift the blame to the LGA by saying they are "required" to do this, rather than themselves having DECIDED this is how they will work.

I have played at LGA licensed and accredited casinos, and I have NOT been asked to send a bank or card statement on top of the usual documents needed to prove ID and ownership of the card (ID, utility bill, back & front of card).

 

[rainmaker]

Software - netEnt (casino)
License - Malta

Just to add some info

Casino "red" is provided by Net Entertainment
Casino "black" is Cryptologic

Sportsbook is provided by Sports betting solutions
Poker from Ongame Network

(casino "red" and "black" are two separate parts in their casino)

 

[gia]

Well one hour and no response to my support email to them, which they guarantee to reply to in 15 minutes, and no response on here from them, says it all does it not.

 

[gia]

Well I just went to live support about having no response to my email, they tried to say it was not received despite my email showing it as delivered, they then disconnected my chat rather than address the issue.


Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Grzegorz'
Grzegorz: Hello, how may I help you?
ME: Hello I sent a support email an hour ago and I have had no response
Grzegorz: Please hold one moment
Grzegorz: What email address have you sent it from and where to?
ME: I sent it to the link on your website and my email shows it as delivered
ME support-en@betsafe.com
Grzegorz: What email address have you sent it from?
ME: from my email address here, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Grzegorz: Please hold one moment
Grzegorz: It seems that we haven't received your email yet.
Grzegorz: Can you write what the issue is?
ME: Here is the email, delivered: from xxxxxxxxx to support-en@betsafe.com date 18 August 2011 11:11 subject Some answers regarding concerns mailed-by xxxxx hide details 11:11 (1 hour ago) Please would you respond to my concerns on the Casinomeister website post below, as your casino rep there appears to have a dormant account. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betsafe-do-you-want-a-dna-sample.45617/
ME: My concerns are listed in that link to the post regarding the amount of personal sensitive information you are requesting from me, in particular a bank statement
Grzegorz: Please hold one moment
You are not currently in a chat session.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Just to add some info

Casino "red" is provided by Net Entertainment
Casino "black" is Cryptologic

Sportsbook is provided by Sports betting solutions
Poker from Ongame Network

(casino "red" and "black" are two separate parts in their casino)

I didn't spot the "black" casino, but Cryptologic have an equally good reputation from a software point of view.

Well I just went to live support about having no response to my email, they tried to say it was not received despite my email showing it as delivered, they then disconnected my chat rather than address the issue.


Please wait for a site operator to respond.
You are now chatting with 'Grzegorz'
Grzegorz: Hello, how may I help you?
ME: Hello I sent a support email an hour ago and I have had no response
Grzegorz: Please hold one moment
Grzegorz: What email address have you sent it from and where to?
ME: I sent it to the link on your website and my email shows it as delivered
ME support-en@betsafe.com
Grzegorz: What email address have you sent it from?
ME: from my email address here, xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Grzegorz: Please hold one moment
Grzegorz: It seems that we haven't received your email yet.
Grzegorz: Can you write what the issue is?
ME: Here is the email, delivered: from xxxxxxxxx to support-en@betsafe.com date 18 August 2011 11:11 subject Some answers regarding concerns mailed-by xxxxx hide details 11:11 (1 hour ago) Please would you respond to my concerns on the Casinomeister website post below, as your casino rep there appears to have a dormant account. https://www.casinomeister.com/forums/threads/betsafe-do-you-want-a-dna-sample.45617/
ME: My concerns are listed in that link to the post regarding the amount of personal sensitive information you are requesting from me, in particular a bank statement
Grzegorz: Please hold one moment
You are not currently in a chat session.

That looks like an Eastern Europe style name, indicating this is where they are REALLY based, even though their servers and license are in Malta. This is one of the indicators that mean "proceed with caution", especially when accompanied by abnormal troubles and what look like stalling tactics when it comes to paying out.

First they deny ever receiving the email, yet you have proof of delivery, then a second the CS find out who you are based on your issue and email address, you are abruptly cut off. It looks like they DID receive your email after all, but are lying about it because they have been told by management to ignore you and/or "stonewall" any attempts you make to progress this issue. This looks like they have already decided not to pay you based on their suspicions, and are merely going through the motions and stalling so that they can put together a proper explanation.

Call their bluff, and send them the online screenshot showing the transaction, even though this will not show your address. Once you have provided this, see if they decide to pay, or simply come up with yet another demand that further stalls the process. The more they stall, the more it looks like they had decided from the outset to screw you over rather than pay. It is no good complaining to the LGA, they have won TWO Casinomeister awards for their incompetence at being regulatory authority.

 

[gia]

I didn't spot the "black" casino, but Cryptologic have an equally good reputation from a software point of view.



That looks like an Eastern Europe style name, indicating this is where they are REALLY based, even though their servers and license are in Malta. This is one of the indicators that mean "proceed with caution", especially when accompanied by abnormal troubles and what look like stalling tactics when it comes to paying out.

First they deny ever receiving the email, yet you have proof of delivery, then a second the CS find out who you are based on your issue and email address, you are abruptly cut off. It looks like they DID receive your email after all, but are lying about it because they have been told by management to ignore you and/or "stonewall" any attempts you make to progress this issue. This looks like they have already decided not to pay you based on their suspicions, and are merely going through the motions and stalling so that they can put together a proper explanation.

Call their bluff, and send them the online screenshot showing the transaction, even though this will not show your address. Once you have provided this, see if they decide to pay, or simply come up with yet another demand that further stalls the process. The more they stall, the more it looks like they had decided from the outset to screw you over rather than pay. It is no good complaining to the LGA, they have won TWO Casinomeister awards for their incompetence at being regulatory authority.

I fully intend to supply the copy of the transaction on the statement as soon as it appears, which will be another day or two. But I will not be supplying it quietly, I intend to shout it from the rooftops to protect other players.
I am also wondering if it is worth contacting Netent and Cryptologic about this casino as they supply them the software to operate, is this worth doing ? any suggestions would be appreciated. I can contact the LGA the contact details are on the website but as you say it is a waste of time, but certainly going to search around for departments in their licensing area to complain to. There is already far too much identity theft occurring without casino's demanding such sensitive personal information on top of the ample amount of ID they already hold on me. I may even raise the issue with my bank and see what opinion they hold on supplying this data to foreign based companies, I am sure they would object to it as a security risk.

 

[P.V.]

There is already far too much identity theft occurring without casino's demanding such sensitive personal information on top of the ample amount of ID they already hold on me. I may even raise the issue with my bank and see what opinion they hold on supplying this data to foreign based companies, I am sure they would object to it as a security risk.

Most countries have some sort of Information Security Act which requires companies to rid unsecure means when sharing sensitive information.

They have a right to request documents as you've shown and maybe providing them the transaction by screen shot will do the trick. In the US some businesses ask for a letter from the FI, on bank letter head stating the account holders name, account number, routing ID # and signed by a bank officer for proof of account verification.

A letter seems a bit more useful as it could be used for multiple requests vs. having to send a bank statement showing the transaction, or an online banking screenshot of the transaction. Especially if this become a standard request at multiple sites.

Anyhow emailing, faxing, mailing doc's in an unencrypted manner is a big security risk and I'm sure would be frowned upon by the UK Information Commissioners Office along with your bank.

Hope it all works out.

 

[jstrike]

lol @ the title, but that's a ridiculous set of paperwork to ask for. If they trust you to deposit and not run a chargeback, they should trust you to withdraw, because you can do a lot more damage running a few chargebacks against them than you ever could by taking out some winnings via a relatively new method. So they're acting like idiots either way.

Screw Neteller and cards. Try Bitcoin. Little bit of setup time, but then it's fast and free...and no company sitting between you and the casino holding your funds. You hold them yourself on your hard drive as encrypted files.

And yeah, I'm plugging my thing now by plugging Bitcoin. I admit it. But I'm convinced it's a much, much better way to handle transfers than anything with "protections" and chargebacks, because the protection is a racket and the only one who wins in dispute situations is the payment processor. I think the whole idea of using credit cards for deposits and withdrawals is a dinosaur at this point... and the major e-wallets are next.

 

[Nifty29]

lol @ the title, but that's a ridiculous set of paperwork to ask for. If they trust you to deposit and not run a chargeback, they should trust you to withdraw, because you can do a lot more damage running a few chargebacks against them than you ever could by taking out some winnings via a relatively new method. So they're acting like idiots either way.

Screw Neteller and cards. Try Bitcoin. Little bit of setup time, but then it's fast and free...and no company sitting between you and the casino holding your funds. You hold them yourself on your hard drive as encrypted files.

And yeah, I'm plugging my thing now by plugging Bitcoin. I admit it. But I'm convinced it's a much, much better way to handle transfers than anything with "protections" and chargebacks, because the protection is a racket and the only one who wins in dispute situations is the payment processor. I think the whole idea of using credit cards for deposits and withdrawals is a dinosaur at this point... and the major e-wallets are next.

I would advise members reading against getting involved in bitcoins at this point.

My reading has convinced me it could come crashing down at any time and there is no way the financiers of the world are going to allow a new uncontrolled currency to take root.

At least you ate honest enough to admit your self promotion or vested interest, unlike some members. Kudos for that.

 

[jstrike]

I should clarify what I'm saying, because under no circumstances am I saying that people should start buying a bunch of Bitcoin to play with and hold onto it, or try to make a profit on it like you might with stocks or gold. I'm not suggesting that's a good idea. Bitcoin's so totally unstable as its own currency that we won't hold more than the bare minimum in it on any given day to pay out small withdrawals. I converted $10k into it at the start of this thing as a quick-pay pool, and lost 30% of that inside a week just because the currency dropped. I did it because I thought I had to, and before I realized how much better off we'd be if we just held a small pool and converted large amounts on demand. It would be incredibly irresponsible of me to suggest that anybody buy Bitcoins as an investment vehicle, or even hold them casually for longer than it takes to deposit or withdraw them. But I wouldn't advise anybody to leave serious money in their Paypal account, or rack up serious debt on their Mastercard either. We take Bitcoins, but we give players a USD amount on the site that holds regardless of what happens to Bitcoin, and pay them out at the current rate so they can convert out immediately without losing USD value. Bitcoin for us is only a means of transferring money from point A to point B and back. But for that...it works really, really well. And it's free for both parties. It's much faster than any other withdrawal method, and there are none of the hoops you'd usually go through, because a venue receiving it doesn't have to worry about chargebacks or fraud. Because there are no chargebacks possible, you don't ever want to buy something in bitcoins you might want to dispute. If you want to buy a record player on ebay, don't use bitcoin. But as a fast, anonymous method of deposit/withdrawal for gaming, it works so well I can imagine it replacing most other services in the next couple years. And it'll completely do away with BS like the situation the OP described. You buy it, 30 minutes later it's already deposited. You withdraw and get it within an hour or so, convert it back to your local currency, and it's in your bank account the next day. This is the reason it's under so much fire right now from governments and banks. But I'm only mentioning it as an alternative payment method. Not a way to store value.
The first major casino to jump into Bitcoin will mostly wipe us out, but they'll also help formalize the currency as a way to transfer. Which is already stabilizing from where I'm standing. So far, our experiment's working and I'd expect to see that happen now in the next 3-6 months. And things like this will be nothing more than a bad memory for most players.


* BTW * Didn't mean to run this thread off topic: re: "I fully intend to supply the copy of the transaction on the statement as soon as it appears, which will be another day or two. But I will not be supplying it quietly, I intend to shout it from the rooftops to protect other players." ... the software providers will be unlikely to provide any relief... my suggestion would be to contact the Malta gaming authority, Link Removed ( Old/Invalid) and provide them with the documentation of what happened.

 

[mattsgame]

OP you could try sending a pm to the Betsson rep ( although not sure if there is one here ) I cannot see one, so might wiz off an email to them on your behalf to contribute to the thread. As Betsafe was taken over by Betsson some time ago.

Edit: Seems we don't have a Betsson rep here :/ I have forwarded this onto Betsson and hopefully we have a Rep here soon

 

[P.V.]

At least you ate honest enough to admit your self promotion or vested interest, unlike some members.

Please don't be so narcissistic, if the moderators feel that I need to add a disclaimer to my posts they'll advise.

Sorry for the derail Max but wanted to reply.

 

[vinylweatherman]

I fully intend to supply the copy of the transaction on the statement as soon as it appears, which will be another day or two. But I will not be supplying it quietly, I intend to shout it from the rooftops to protect other players.
I am also wondering if it is worth contacting Netent and Cryptologic about this casino as they supply them the software to operate, is this worth doing ? any suggestions would be appreciated. I can contact the LGA the contact details are on the website but as you say it is a waste of time, but certainly going to search around for departments in their licensing area to complain to. There is already far too much identity theft occurring without casino's demanding such sensitive personal information on top of the ample amount of ID they already hold on me. I may even raise the issue with my bank and see what opinion they hold on supplying this data to foreign based companies, I am sure they would object to it as a security risk.

NOT until you get paid!!!!!

Stay quiet whilst THEY have your money.

When you have been paid, THEN shout from the rooftops about the procedure involved, and your concerns over the risks posed to your own security. Let them know how you feel by uninstalling the casino and ignoring all of their emails (set up a rule that sends them to your spam folder if possible, and review them in bulk at a time when you feel strong willed).

Making too much fuss now could further antagonise them, and they could react by further stalling on paying you.

.........because you can do a lot more damage running a few chargebacks against them than you ever could by taking out some winnings via a relatively new method

Yet things like this CAUSE players to feel they have been conned, and in seeking help they may be advised to complain to their bank, which surely INCREASES the risk of a chargeback, even though experienced players know that this is the WRONG advice in such a situation.

This entire situation was caused by Neteller being down when the OP wanted to deposit. This is hardly an "exceptional circumstance" as experienced players know that Neteller ALWAYS goes "down" on a regular basis, and without any regard to whether it is a good time to do so as far as their customers are concerned.

The operator should KNOW about this, and NOT consider a player switching to an alternative on those days Neteller is down is something to flag their account for.

Chargeback is a big problem for this industry, yet it is dismissed as intentional fraud, but has anyone on the industry side had a close look at WHY each chargeback occurs, as I am sure that at least part of the problem is caused when a player is faced with this kind of situation, but is NOT active on the forums, and believes that going to their bank for help is the ONLY viable solution. Given that the player ALREADY believes they have been screwed over at this stage, they are likely to cooperate with ANY solution that gets them at least part of their money back, even if this involves bending the facts when telling the bank what happened.

 

[gia]

Thanks guys for all your help. About to check if it has appeared on my statement yet. Still no response to yesterday's email to them.
Will be interesting to see if Betsson respond to the thread, I did not know they had taken over Betsafe.