Betroyal steals my winnings.

fredb

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Location
Cyberland
I had a horrific experience with Betroyal.

Back in March I played a promo at their casino and won a few thousands, but they confiscated my winnings because I played roulette, even though the rules merely mentioned that roulette does not count towards the rollover (I completed the rollover on other games that counted).

Since then I have discussed this issue on a few occasions with their ex-manager AJ. Just recently, AJ was supposed to discuss things with the accounting people but now he is gone. I have tried to resume discussion with James Cash today but it turned disastrous.

I know that another player on this forum (mathilda) also played roulette on a promo there a while ago and got a promise that she would get paid. I guess they were briefly open to logical thinking back then but these days are gone.

These guys, not just James Cash, others at Betroyal too, are used to the upbeat, pushy ways of the snakeoil salesman. Logical thinking and fair discussion are alien to them.

Trying to argue with them was a waste of time. I have a sceenshot that proves that the rules were changed after I played, but I could never even get Mr Cash to listen to what the rule amendment was, even though it was critical to what I was trying to explain. If at any point I could get him to listen long enough for me to begin to build an argument, he would interrupt and repeat again and again that it was pointless to discuss any further because 'I had broken the rules'. And then he would again fake to be listening only to interrupt again by hammering that I have 'knowingly broken the rules'. Countless times he threatened to close my account and seize the money still left in it, or to have me speak with his manager who is ' in no way as nice as me'. In the end I couldn't take the abuse anymore and I abruptly said goodbye and hung up. This caused him to lock my account and take away my 600$ deposit amount that they had returned to my account after seizing my nearly 4000$ in winnings.

For the record, the rule that was changed is this :

The current text :

3. Bets placed on Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Pontoon and Sic Bo do not count toward the wagering requirement. Where there are winnings from Black Jack or Video poker while the bonus is active, the bonus wagering requirement must be played out in the same game before any withdrawal. Any winnings generated at these games will be voided.
What it was when I played :

3. Bets placed on Roulette, Baccarat, Craps, Pontoon and Sic Bo do not count toward the wagering requirement. Where there are winnings from Black Jack or Video poker while the bonus is active, the bonus wagering requirement must be played out in the same game before any withdrawal.
Now why would they have added that last line unless they thought it meant something different when the line wasn't there?
I believe most people would agree that I have a good point there, but the significance of it appears to be way out of reach of the Betroyal people.

Note : I am aware that, in its current state, the rule is still ambiguous. That last line they added should appear in the middle of the paragraph, not at the end. As it is now, it seems to imply that playing video poker or blackjack will void you winnings too. Of course, it might get handy for them to make it mean exactly that when it'll suit their purpose.
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
You have two strikes against you:

1. You played at a shitty/rogue casino.

2. You further pushed your luck by flaunting an ambiguous part of the T&C hoping that it would work out in your favor. See #1.

Given that you joined the forum in 2003 you have probably been around and read quite a few posts even if you didn't contribute to many. By now you should have known that if you play with fire you are going to get burned. It is never safe to assume, without written clarification from the casino, that just because a game "doesn't count towards WR" that you have a green light to play that game when using a bonus.

I wish I could offer more sympathy, but... why would you play at DebtRoyal?
 

MPB

Dormant account
Joined
May 31, 2007
Location
Germany
To give a casino a name so close to "betrayal" is quite funny.
And what a suprise that AJ is gone and now there's "James Cash". If enough BS has piled up I guess he will quickly be replaced by "Johnny Gambol" and the by "Jack Black".:rolleyes:
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
To give a casino a name so close to "betrayal" is quite funny.
And what a suprise that AJ is gone and now there's "James Cash". If enough BS has piled up I guess he will quickly be replaced by "Johnny Gambol" and the by "Jack Black".:rolleyes:
And then by "Rich Greenback", "Jimmy DeMonay" and finally, "John Dough".
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
To give a casino a name so close to "betrayal" is quite funny.
And what a suprise that AJ is gone and now there's "James Cash". If enough BS has piled up I guess he will quickly be replaced by "Johnny Gambol" and the by "Jack Black".:rolleyes:
Okay so I'm a little slow on the uptake, but I just realized that "AJ" is probably a phony name too.

"AJ" is, after all, a Blackjack.

What a bunch of douchebags.
 

fredb

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Location
Cyberland
Just to make things clear :

I did not create this thread in order to whine or in the hope that anyone could help. I only created it to make sure that everyone is aware that, no matter the fact that the BetRoyal sportsbook has been sold to SBG Global, or whatever other news that might lead one to believe that things could be changing for the better, BetRoyal (the casino part at least) is run by crooks.

AJ is gone but all the others are staying. This place is ingrained with a rotten attitude that is not about to change.
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
Just to make things clear :

I did not create this thread in order to whine or in the hope that anyone could help. I only created it to make sure that everyone is aware that, no matter the fact that the BetRoyal sportsbook has been sold to SBG Global, or whatever other news that might lead one to believe that things could be changing for the better, BetRoyal (the casino part at least) is run by crooks.

AJ is gone but all the others are staying. This place is ingrained with a rotten attitude that is not about to change.
I've only been a member here for a little over a year, and they have been in the Rogue pit for that whole time and probably a lot longer. I can't speak for anyone other than myself but I'm pretty sure that most people know enough to stay away from them (new players excluded of course).

Have you seen this thread here? -
Threats from BetRoyal
Here's quite an interesting story, Thursday night I decided to give BetRoyal a shot. I spoke with support before depositing to make sure I had everything clear on the bonus terms. Then I deposit $200 and was then told I couldn't recieve a bonus. So I said fine, I'll just take my business elsewhere. I called up their support and spoke with the manager about getting my money back to my Neteller account. He told me that I would have to send in verification documents and wait 10 business days before I would recieve my cashout. I disagreed with this and we argued back and forth for a bit, until I finally gave in and sent him my forms.
We'll not being real happy about this and making a rash decision I wrote "go f*** yourselves", in the body of the email I sent them with my forms. Now I'll be the first one to admit that this was in bad taste, and I should not have done that, but what happened next is just plain unexcusable.
About 10 minutes later I recieved a phone call from the manager that I spoke with earlier, when I picked up the phone he said, "go f*** myself, go f*** myself? No f*** you! We are coming after you!" I immediatly hung up the phone. Not 5 minutes later I get another call from the same number. This time he says, "We will not stop coming after you, we have people in your area that are coming to find you." Again I hung up on them.
So the next day I called back thier CS number and asked to speak with a manager again. I explained to him what had happened and told him that I wouldnt post anything on the forums until his investigation was complete.
Well today he called me back and told me that no action was going to be taken because it was my fault and I had originally started it. It's my fault that I recieved threatening phone calls!
I'm not one to come and slander casinos on the forums, but what kind of casino will defend thier employees that make threatening phone calls to customers? My advice to you is to stay far, far away from BetRoyal.
And here's an article about how BetRoyal sent armed men to intimidate the people at Sportsbook Review (SBR) -
You do not have permission to view link Log in or register now.
.
4/4/2005 12:28 PM
Royal Sports (SBR rating D) The owner sends armed men to intimidate SBR staff, SBR agrees to allow a corrected SBR Newswire. SBR reports no corrected report offered by Royal Sports. After sending three armed thugs to detain SBR staff in Costa Rica it was decided SBR would give BetRoyal a week to clarify the SBR report that the infamous owner was in fact the new owner of Royal Sports. The thugs were arrested without incident by heavily armed Costa Rican police while the forced meeting between Royal Sports and SBR was still taking place. SBR appreciates the remarkable response time and overwhelming force employed by Costa Rican police.

Royal Sports has now declined to issue a corrected statement as promised leaving little doubt that the original report by SBR was correct.

The owner's tactics of intimidation threaten the industry and give critics of gaming in Costa Rica fuel for their argument that gaming attracts thugs, organized crime and other undesirables.
Just thought you should know what kind of people you are supporting by depositing there. :oops:
 
Last edited by a moderator:

fredb

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Location
Cyberland
I hadn't read that story about the armed thugs.
I must say they seem to be exactly the kind of people to do such a thing.

Amusingly, my antivirus detects a Trojan Horse in their casino installer.
 

SlotsWizard

Dormant account
Joined
May 11, 2006
Location
North of Antarctica
To uninstall them what you should do is first make sure you aren't running the casino, then go into the installation folder (it's probably C:\Program Files\betroyal or something similar) and select all the files and hold down Shift while you press Delete, then click Yes to the confirmation. Then move up a level (click the folder icon which has the up-arrow in the middle of it) and select only the betroyal folder, and again do Shift-Delete and click Yes.

Now go back to your Add/Remove programs and try to uninstall it; it should tell you that it can't find the uninstaller so would you like to remove the entry from the list of installed programs, and click Yes.
 

happygobrokey

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
canada
i played around february-march also, but before pontoon was disallowed from wagering. and apparently when they were in the process of changing their whole staff over to the group under aj. and aj is his real name, they once told me a real-sounding name that it stands for. aj told me he used to work at nine.com. i think "james cash" is just a generic csr alias, so the "same person" always deals with your issues for continuity.

and they were also giving me a hard time about withdrawals, and it took months to get ~2000 in two instalments. i was chasing down and grilling aj and jc weekly, and another guy ronald was instrumental in getting me the code for a wire transfer. and now they call me quite often and leave messages to call me back today for great bonuses. yecchh!

and indeed you tempt your fate by playing disallowed games to stack up a huge balance with the advantage of the bonus money.

bottom line, they suck. and don't get your hopes up. and i'm sorry i played there. it's a big risk. :thumbsup:
 

spino1i

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 3, 2006
Location
Berkeley,CA
I would not under any circumstances play at Bet Royal. They will make agreements with you and then not honor them, stating that they reserve the right to break any agreement they want at any time just because. Casinomeister needs to put these guys back on the rogue list (I dont see them there..)
 

lojo

Banned User - repetitive violations of <a href="ht
Joined
Jan 18, 2007
Location
USA
I would not under any circumstances play at Bet Royal. They will make agreements with you and then not honor them, stating that they reserve the right to break any agreement they want at any time just because. Casinomeister needs to put these guys back on the rogue list (I dont see them there..)
http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/rogue.php Look under 'the virtual group'

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I gotta say that Chris at Prism was always good to me, but after the shellacing I got at virtual.com, and he couldn't help me out, I don't gibba fug no mo. The profits from all the casinos on this list go to Virtual so they don't get my play any more. Period.
 

fredb

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Location
Cyberland
and indeed you tempt your fate by playing disallowed games to stack up a huge balance with the advantage of the bonus money.
It wasn't a disallowed game is my whole point. The rules merely say that roulette doesn't count towards the rollover.

I play games that don't count for rollover all the time at MG casinos (and others too) and they don't use that against me to steal my winnings. In fact, they have every reason to rejoice.
 

happygobrokey

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
canada
ok, now you enter a robotics competition at your school. each contestant is given $5k with which to complete the project. they may not dip into their own pockets or beg money from anyone. can you throw the 5k down on a hand of bj and double it, and then build the robot with 10k? how about if you only use the extra 5k to hire consultants (or to pay overnight shipping for cutting edge parts from japan) and it isn't used for actual material costs?

and hypothetics aside, i said you tempt your fate, not necessarily that you weren't within the rules. they do make up the rules and make them very extensive, and yes they should be more explicit with what they actually want it to mean. the warning on the lawnmower says keep your hands clear of the outlet port and the blades, do you take that to mean that other body parts going there won't present a danger? if in doubt, ask and clarify. :thumbsup:
 

fredb

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 18, 2003
Location
Cyberland
and hypothetics aside, i said you tempt your fate, not necessarily that you weren't within the rules.
Mainly, I tempted my fate by playing a bandit casino.

The point of my posting here is not about having people tell me I made a good decision or them making me feel good. It's about Betroyal and the fact that they will steal your money if they feel like it.
 

happygobrokey

Dormant account
Joined
Jul 24, 2006
Location
canada
Mainly, I tempted my fate by playing a bandit casino.

The point of my posting here is not about having people tell me I made a good decision or them making me feel good. It's about Betroyal and the fact that they will steal your money if they feel like it.
fair enough. but many other casinos than just them will void winnings even when they don't properly state whether a game is excluded from play when bonus money is involved or merely if it does not count towards wr. so i am just trying to illustrate that even though the words don't say it right out, that playing such games is hazardous without getting an explicit confirmation first. :thumbsup:
 

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