BetonSoft Lucky Creek (Genesys Group) gone rogue?

buddy16cat

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Location
Earth
I have received a free no deposit in the mail from Genesys Group, BetOnSoft casinos (Lucky Creek, Grand Eagle, Treasure Mile, Mandarin Palace) and was surprised my withdraw was declined. They changed their terms so that now the max withdraws from a fee bonus is $100 which is new but now they are claiming multiple free bonus redemption. I have made deposits in the past. I can't help but notice the similarity in the new rules with Virtual Casino Group. I have never had a problem with them before. Did they go rogue?
 
Last edited:

kavaman

Senior Member
PABnononaccred3
PABnononaccred3
MM
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Location
finland
I dont believe they have gone rogue. They are having some payment issues to certain ewallet transactions though meaning they often want to pay winnings by wire , or creditcard transfer.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
I have received a free no deposit in the mail from Genesys Group, BetOnSoft casinos (Lucky Creek, Grand Eagle, Treasure Mile, Mandarin Palace) and was surprised my withdraw was declined. The changed their terms so that now the max withdraws from a fee bonus is $100 which is new but now they are claiming multiple free bonus redemption. I have made deposits in the past. I can't help but notice the similarity in the new rules with Virtual Casino Group. I have never had a problem with them before. Did they go rogue?

Well, they sent it to you personally, so they decided you were eligible. They should still pay the $100 under the new terms.

This is certainly going rogue in terms of marketing, although they have merely wasted your time since you didn't have to deposit.

It will backfire, as if they start sending deceptive mailers, players will start binning them instead of responding to the lure. They will then have to throw even more money at winning back the trust of these players.
 

buddy16cat

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Location
Earth
Yes, these code are specific.

Well, they sent it to you personally, so they decided you were eligible. They should still pay the $100 under the new terms.

This is certainly going rogue in terms of marketing, although they have merely wasted your time since you didn't have to deposit.

It will backfire, as if they start sending deceptive mailers, players will start binning them instead of responding to the lure. They will then have to throw even more money at winning back the trust of these players.
Yes, they state in their terms that they are by invitation only. Yes, it was a big waste of time really. I had them close my account so I will not receive any more mailers. It is the same deceitful marketing Virtual does except they didn't have these terms before and must have just recently added them. Same with their $100 max withdraw. If they want to weasel out of paying players by adding new terms without notifying them or at least adding them to the mailer it is going to backfire. I have deposited in the past because I knew that payment was not an issue but apparently it is. If they aren't going to pay me my $100 (minus $15 check fee), imagine if you deposited and won 100X that. They are definitely going down hill and would not buy any "issues". At very least, they should have stated they had new terms and I did contact support about the free bonus and the terms and they could have at least mentioned it. Do I need to read the full terms every time I play?
 

buddy16cat

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Location
Earth
Funny how online casinos can go rogue fast.

I was looking and was surprised Rushmore is on the rogue group. I played there, won, and was payed no problem. Lucky Creek was good when they started now using the same terms as Virtual and sending out free chips all the time people can't cash out. The difference is off course everyone knows Virtual don't pay on them and Genesys Group's bonuses are exclusively sent and the terms were changed suddenly to deny payouts, which appears worse.
 

buddy16cat

Dormant account
Joined
Oct 14, 2009
Location
Earth
I was actually mistaken, only one no deposit permitted per acccount.

This is the rule they used not to pay me:
8.4.1 A player is only permitted to claim one free bonus offer on their casino account, where no deposit is required. This includes free money offers and free spins offers. Should a player claim more than one free bonus offer (in succession without making a purchase at any Genesys casino), any winnings generated from this bonus will be null and void.

I have made purchases in the past but not recently and did redeem one coupon since then. So was I suppose to use it at a casino of theirs where I didn't use a non-deposit? Why were they sending them out since they used to give out free chips all the time and had a welcome no deposit? Didn't they realize most people have redeemed no deposits in the past. I see though that they changed the terms to general 'Genesys Club" casino group terms. There has obviously been major changes to their casino group and I would be wary and throw out no deposit coupons if you already redeemed one.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
This is the rule they used not to pay me:
8.4.1 A player is only permitted to claim one free bonus offer on their casino account, where no deposit is required. This includes free money offers and free spins offers. Should a player claim more than one free bonus offer (in succession without making a purchase at any Genesys casino), any winnings generated from this bonus will be null and void.

I have made purchases in the past but not recently and did redeem one coupon since then. So was I suppose to use it at a casino of theirs where I didn't use a non-deposit? Why were they sending them out since they used to give out free chips all the time and had a welcome no deposit? Didn't they realize most people have redeemed no deposits in the past. I see though that they changed the terms to general 'Genesys Club" casino group terms. There has obviously been major changes to their casino group and I would be wary and throw out no deposit coupons if you already redeemed one.

Their new 8.4.1 is a near cut & paste of a term Virtual casino use to deny payouts. They too deceive by sending out personal offers in the full knowledge that the targetted player is not eligible. The idea is to get the player back in the casino, or to reinstall it. They struggle to get deposits, so can't actually afford to give away these free chips, but if they at least send them out, they ensure more players have the casino installed, and are thus in a better position to deposit on impulse.

Further, most players don't reach a withdrawal on these free chips, and the casino keeps quiet on the matter, letting them continue to play them and keep the casino installed for the next one that comes along. They hope the player will end up depositing, so they don't want them to find out that had they ever won from the free chips, they would not have been paid.

Some players like yourself do eventually find out what a waste of time it has been, but these casinos target the US market where players have far fewer choices, making it more likely that players will accept what little they are given.

Luckily, you have found out without depositing, because they may have voided a win from a deposit as well, using the grounds that you used too many free chips, even if you lost on each one. This is the stunt Virtual have tried, even when the deposit didn't come with a bonus. Their explanation for needing such a term beggared belief, it was that by playing and deliberately losing all those free chips meant the slots had been "filled up", and that the "abuse" was to then deposit without claiming a bonus just to bring the RTP back to the norm by winning back a percentage of the money "deliberately lost" when playing the free chips.

It does seem that they are aligning their terms and policies with those of Virtual group, that Genesys group have a very secretive structure, and that Virtual group have been known to run cloaked operations that claim to be nothing to do with them (Acerevenue for example). Perhaps Virtual are the ultimate owners of this Genesys group.

I remember when Mandarin Palace appeared from nowhere. They had terms that catered for players from all over the world, but this was just a front. In fact, anyone who registered from outside the US was refused without explanation. The pattern was obvious, they were being refused entry because they were not from the US, but the casino would not state this on the site nor in the terms. It was like they were running a "black op".

They then started accepting players from elsewhere, but I think this was because it became public knowledge that their criteria for acceptance was strictly US only, and this would make them a sitting target for the DoJ.

Rushmore seem to be doing the same. Loads of free tournaments to ensure players keep the casino installed, but too few depositing players to pay everybody who wins. With such a cash shortage, running loads of free tournaments isn't going to help.

Many players now ONLY play the Rushmore free tournaments, and are not going to deposit because they cannot trust the casino can pay up if they win. With the free tournaments, it is only wasted time if they end up not paying out.

Rushmore are in the pit because they are effectively trading whilst insolvent, and have sent reps to various fora with the specific intent to lie about their long term problems in order to entice players to start depositing again, hence "double rogued".
 

Nifty29

Dormant account
Joined
Jun 20, 2001
Location
Turn right, then right. then right again
Actually, I don't have a problem with casinos limiting freebies for players who have never deposited. I object to players getting free stuff when they won't risk their own money like me.

It's certainly clear in the terms, which players should read before they play.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Actually, I don't have a problem with casinos limiting freebies for players who have never deposited. I object to players getting free stuff when they won't risk their own money like me.

It's certainly clear in the terms, which players should read before they play.

I object to deceptive marketing. This was not a general offer, but one sent directly to the player.

If there was a party up your street to which you hadn't been invited, you would not expect to be let in.
However, if you had been sent an invite, addressed to you, and you turned up but was told you can't come in because you hadn't thrown your own party since you came the last time, you would feel offended that they had wasted your time by sending the invite in the full knowledge that you would be turned away if you showed up.

It's really basic good manners, and there is no reason why a business should be excused if you wouldn't accept bad manners from another person.

If they REALLY didn't want players using all these free chips, they wouldn't send them out. The thing is they DO want players to keep using and losing all the free chips as it ensures the casino remains installed on their machine. This in turn makes it easier to induce a deposit from the player. A few players have gotten wise to this marketing deception, and only play the free chips. Instead of taking such players off the mailing list and risk them uninstalling the casino, they keep quiet whilst the player keeps losing as this buys them a little more time in which to induce a deposit. Once the player wins, they call it a day and refuse to pay. They know that the result is that the player will uninstall the casino and maybe tell a few friends, but their marketing has failed on this particular player, so they are not bothered by the loss.

The problem for the casino is that word gets around that they find excuses for not paying, so players are more likely to stick with playing just on the free chips, being prepared to call it a day the first time they win and the casino refuses to pay.

Rather than loads of free chips, they should be sending out loads of deposit bonuses. Players will learn that the only way they are getting anything is through parting with a little of their own cash first. Those with no intention of depositing will uninstall the casino, leaving the operator with a greater proportion of depositing players to look after, and fewer non depositing players to keep an eye on.
 

Genesys Club

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Location
Not Applicable
Good day buddy16cat,

My name is Fred Hills, I am a Senior Representative at the Genesys Club. I would like to address your concerns in order to shed more light on the reason for your withdrawal being declined.

I have reviewed the 4 accounts you have with us based on the same nick name you are using here on Casinomeister and the one you have registered with our casino.

You first registered a Mandarin Palace account with us in 2009 and subsequently opened a Grand Eagle, Treasure Mile and Lucky Creek Account. I have thoroughly reviewed your 4 accounts and can confirm that you have never made a deposit at anytime at anyone of the casino accounts you have registered. Based on the current account details at hand, I have found that you have claimed 19 Free bonuses between the 4 casinos you have registered with us. These bonuses are to the total value of $1025. You have further made withdrawals totalling $500 which the casino has honoured and paid to yourself. All of this has been done with out any deposits from yourself. I do not believe that this a sign of a casino that has gone rogue.

We pride ourselves on being fair, honest and transparent. Our maximum withdrawal amounts did change from $500 to $100, this change occurred just over a year ago, so please note that this is not a new development at our casinos. We do recommend that players review our terms and conditions from time, we do try and inform players of changes where ever possible, but the onus is on the player to review these. Since October 2011 you have claimed 3 free bonus, one in October 2011 and the last 2 in September and October 2012, respectively. As your bonus claims prior to 2012 was in 2011, and you have not played at the casino during the year, we believe it is not unreasonable for the casino to have made a few small changes to our terms and conditions in that year and we would hope a player who had not played with us for almost a year would have familiarised themselves with our terms and conditions.
Our terms and conditions state the following:

1. APPLICABILITY OF THIS AGREEMENT
By using or installing the software, making use of any services and / or taking part in any promotion at The Genesys Club and any of its affiliated casinos, you acknowledge that you have read and accepted these Terms and Conditions, and agree to comply with them. You also acknowledge that when The Genesys Club is referred to any where in our terms and conditions, this will include all casinos affiliated to The Genesys Club, namely:

•Mandarin Palace Casino,
•Treasure Mile Casino,
•Lucky Creek Casino,
•Grand Eagle Casino and Wizbet Casino.
You further acknowledge that non-compliance with any casino terms and conditions could lead to your account being closed, disqualification from any promotion, the possible forfeiture of wins and /or the taking of Legal Action should it be deemed necessary by casino management. The Casino Terms and Conditions are liable to change from time to time without prior notice or notification being sent to player’s. It is the player's responsibility to regularly check all of the casino Terms and Conditions for any changes that are made.

8.4.1 A player is only permitted to claim one free bonus offer on their casino account, where no deposit is required. This includes free money offers and free spins offers. Should a player claim more than one free bonus offer (in succession without making a purchase at any Genesys casino), any winnings generated from this bonus will be null and void.
buddycat16, Had you made a deposit since your last free bonus claim, the casino would have paid your withdrawal. Withdrawals are only denied under these circumstance where players have been found to have claimed multiple back to back bonuses without depositing between these bonuses. Your withdrawal was denied as you have never purchased and have claimed back to back bonuses. Our terms and conditions are clear on this point.

vinlyweatherman, to answer you concern regarding the fact that we sent buddycat16 an invitation and did not take him of a mailing list when he clearly was not a depositing player. We do use external marketing companies on some occasions, who market on the casino’s behalf. We unfortunately do not have access to this list of players that are mailed, thus a scenario like this occurred. In this regard the casino relies on our players to familiarise themselves with our terms and conditions.

buddycat16 and vinlyweatherman, I have to stress the following:

• The casino has not done anything negligent or malicious or anything that remotely resembles a “rogue casino”.
• We are not associated with the “Virtual casinos” in any shape, way of form, nor have we used or copied their terms and conditions. Our Terms and conditions are drawn up by our Senior Management to specifically represent our casinos only.
• We Do honor hundreds of withdrawals on free bonuses, as long as the casino terms and conditions are adhered to.
• Our terms and conditions are fair and not unjust or unrealistic when compared to other online casinos.
• We are honest, reputable, transparent and fair and have always upheld these values.

buddycat16 and vinlyweatherman, I hope I was able to allay your concerns and shed some light on the statements you have raised.
 

dionysus

Good(w)ill Ambassador
CAG
MM
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Location
the land of snow and maple syrup
Good day buddy16cat,

My name is Fred Hills, I am a Senior Representative at the Genesys Club. I would like to address your concerns in order to shed more light on the reason for your withdrawal being declined.

I have reviewed the 4 accounts you have with us based on the same nick name you are using here on Casinomeister and the one you have registered with our casino.

You first registered a Mandarin Palace account with us in 2009 and subsequently opened a Grand Eagle, Treasure Mile and Lucky Creek Account. I have thoroughly reviewed your 4 accounts and can confirm that you have never made a deposit at anytime at anyone of the casino accounts you have registered. Based on the current account details at hand, I have found that you have claimed 19 Free bonuses between the 4 casinos you have registered with us. These bonuses are to the total value of $1025. You have further made withdrawals totalling $500 which the casino has honoured and paid to yourself. All of this has been done with out any deposits from yourself. I do not believe that this a sign of a casino that has gone rogue.

We pride ourselves on being fair, honest and transparent. Our maximum withdrawal amounts did change from $500 to $100, this change occurred just over a year ago, so please note that this is not a new development at our casinos. We do recommend that players review our terms and conditions from time, we do try and inform players of changes where ever possible, but the onus is on the player to review these. Since October 2011 you have claimed 3 free bonus, one in October 2011 and the last 2 in September and October 2012, respectively. As your bonus claims prior to 2012 was in 2011, and you have not played at the casino during the year, we believe it is not unreasonable for the casino to have made a few small changes to our terms and conditions in that year and we would hope a player who had not played with us for almost a year would have familiarised themselves with our terms and conditions.
Our terms and conditions state the following:

1. APPLICABILITY OF THIS AGREEMENT
By using or installing the software, making use of any services and / or taking part in any promotion at The Genesys Club and any of its affiliated casinos, you acknowledge that you have read and accepted these Terms and Conditions, and agree to comply with them. You also acknowledge that when The Genesys Club is referred to any where in our terms and conditions, this will include all casinos affiliated to The Genesys Club, namely:

•Mandarin Palace Casino,
•Treasure Mile Casino,
•Lucky Creek Casino,
•Grand Eagle Casino and Wizbet Casino.
You further acknowledge that non-compliance with any casino terms and conditions could lead to your account being closed, disqualification from any promotion, the possible forfeiture of wins and /or the taking of Legal Action should it be deemed necessary by casino management. The Casino Terms and Conditions are liable to change from time to time without prior notice or notification being sent to player’s. It is the player's responsibility to regularly check all of the casino Terms and Conditions for any changes that are made.

8.4.1 A player is only permitted to claim one free bonus offer on their casino account, where no deposit is required. This includes free money offers and free spins offers. Should a player claim more than one free bonus offer (in succession without making a purchase at any Genesys casino), any winnings generated from this bonus will be null and void.
buddycat16, Had you made a deposit since your last free bonus claim, the casino would have paid your withdrawal. Withdrawals are only denied under these circumstance where players have been found to have claimed multiple back to back bonuses without depositing between these bonuses. Your withdrawal was denied as you have never purchased and have claimed back to back bonuses. Our terms and conditions are clear on this point.

vinlyweatherman, to answer you concern regarding the fact that we sent buddycat16 an invitation and did not take him of a mailing list when he clearly was not a depositing player. We do use external marketing companies on some occasions, who market on the casino’s behalf. We unfortunately do not have access to this list of players that are mailed, thus a scenario like this occurred. In this regard the casino relies on our players to familiarise themselves with our terms and conditions.

buddycat16 and vinlyweatherman, I have to stress the following:

• The casino has not done anything negligent or malicious or anything that remotely resembles a “rogue casino”.
• We are not associated with the “Virtual casinos” in any shape, way of form, nor have we used or copied their terms and conditions. Our Terms and conditions are drawn up by our Senior Management to specifically represent our casinos only.
• We Do honor hundreds of withdrawals on free bonuses, as long as the casino terms and conditions are adhered to.
• Our terms and conditions are fair and not unjust or unrealistic when compared to other online casinos.
• We are honest, reputable, transparent and fair and have always upheld these values.

buddycat16 and vinlyweatherman, I hope I was able to allay your concerns and shed some light on the statements you have raised.

Well, for anyone who ever asked 'how did so-and-so get my email', there's your answer
 

wobble33

Experienced Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
uk
Good day buddy16cat,

My name is Fred Hills, I am a Senior Representative at the Genesys Club. I would like to address your concerns in order to shed more light on the reason for your withdrawal being declined.

I have reviewed the 4 accounts you have with us based on the same nick name you are using here on Casinomeister and the one you have registered with our casino.

You first registered a Mandarin Palace account with us in 2009 and subsequently opened a Grand Eagle, Treasure Mile and Lucky Creek Account. I have thoroughly reviewed your 4 accounts and can confirm that you have never made a deposit at anytime at anyone of the casino accounts you have registered. Based on the current account details at hand, I have found that you have claimed 19 Free bonuses between the 4 casinos you have registered with us. These bonuses are to the total value of $1025. You have further made withdrawals totalling $500 which the casino has honoured and paid to yourself. All of this has been done with out any deposits from yourself. I do not believe that this a sign of a casino that has gone rogue.

We pride ourselves on being fair, honest and transparent. Our maximum withdrawal amounts did change from $500 to $100, this change occurred just over a year ago, so please note that this is not a new development at our casinos. We do recommend that players review our terms and conditions from time, we do try and inform players of changes where ever possible, but the onus is on the player to review these. Since October 2011 you have claimed 3 free bonus, one in October 2011 and the last 2 in September and October 2012, respectively. As your bonus claims prior to 2012 was in 2011, and you have not played at the casino during the year, we believe it is not unreasonable for the casino to have made a few small changes to our terms and conditions in that year and we would hope a player who had not played with us for almost a year would have familiarised themselves with our terms and conditions.
Our terms and conditions state the following:

1. APPLICABILITY OF THIS AGREEMENT
By using or installing the software, making use of any services and / or taking part in any promotion at The Genesys Club and any of its affiliated casinos, you acknowledge that you have read and accepted these Terms and Conditions, and agree to comply with them. You also acknowledge that when The Genesys Club is referred to any where in our terms and conditions, this will include all casinos affiliated to The Genesys Club, namely:

•Mandarin Palace Casino,
•Treasure Mile Casino,
•Lucky Creek Casino,
•Grand Eagle Casino and Wizbet Casino.
You further acknowledge that non-compliance with any casino terms and conditions could lead to your account being closed, disqualification from any promotion, the possible forfeiture of wins and /or the taking of Legal Action should it be deemed necessary by casino management. The Casino Terms and Conditions are liable to change from time to time without prior notice or notification being sent to player’s. It is the player's responsibility to regularly check all of the casino Terms and Conditions for any changes that are made.

8.4.1 A player is only permitted to claim one free bonus offer on their casino account, where no deposit is required. This includes free money offers and free spins offers. Should a player claim more than one free bonus offer (in succession without making a purchase at any Genesys casino), any winnings generated from this bonus will be null and void.
buddycat16, Had you made a deposit since your last free bonus claim, the casino would have paid your withdrawal. Withdrawals are only denied under these circumstance where players have been found to have claimed multiple back to back bonuses without depositing between these bonuses. Your withdrawal was denied as you have never purchased and have claimed back to back bonuses. Our terms and conditions are clear on this point.

vinlyweatherman, to answer you concern regarding the fact that we sent buddycat16 an invitation and did not take him of a mailing list when he clearly was not a depositing player. We do use external marketing companies on some occasions, who market on the casino’s behalf. We unfortunately do not have access to this list of players that are mailed, thus a scenario like this occurred. In this regard the casino relies on our players to familiarise themselves with our terms and conditions.

buddycat16 and vinlyweatherman, I have to stress the following:

• The casino has not done anything negligent or malicious or anything that remotely resembles a “rogue casino”.
• We are not associated with the “Virtual casinos” in any shape, way of form, nor have we used or copied their terms and conditions. Our Terms and conditions are drawn up by our Senior Management to specifically represent our casinos only.
• We Do honor hundreds of withdrawals on free bonuses, as long as the casino terms and conditions are adhered to.
• Our terms and conditions are fair and not unjust or unrealistic when compared to other online casinos.
• We are honest, reputable, transparent and fair and have always upheld these values.

buddycat16 and vinlyweatherman, I hope I was able to allay your concerns and shed some light on the statements you have raised.

thanks thats the other side of the coin...
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top