Bonus Complaint Betfred - Withdraw Issue

Scarlett.Irons

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Location
Cambridgeshire
Hi All,
I am new to online Casino's & to this forum, and feel very disapointed with my first experience.

Anyway, this is the problem I have -
I signed up to Betfred, and I start off by saying I didnt choose them because of any bonus offers I had seen - I really didnt do any research whatsover (I dont know why I chose them over any other casino).
I then deposited £100 (I have to admit at this stage I was just going to play Blackjack, as I am not really familiar with any other game).
Once I had made my deposit I was greated with £100 bonus, which as said previously I hadnt looked for, nor asked for (and being new to casino's, I feel the way it is given is very misleading).
So I have gone through the depositing process, and I enter the casino - And as said previously I am looking for Blackjack, so I find it under table games, but as I find it I see a game called Blackjack switch, and think to myself this looks interesting, so proceed to open game.
Now I am a couple of weeks down the line now, and have enjoyed my experience with playing Blackjack switch, and one or two other Blackjack games, I had initially came here to have fun, and was not expecting any massive wins, but I have been rather lucky, and have found myself with £6000 in my balance - so last night I decided to ask how I would withdraw cash (not because I wanted to withdraw the whole amount, and leave Betfred - mainly because I was feeling quite smug with myself, and the amount I had in account, would solve a lot of problems for me and missus after not long becoming a father - anyway thats probably more suited to another forum, lol).
I was initially told that I would need to meet a wager, and they would check if I had met it, they came back to say I had and then said they had noticed that I had been playing blackjack and therefore this doesnt meet the wager, and so my balance would be taken away from me.

As you can probably understand, I am gutted - Now many of you are going to say thats the way all casinos work (which is fair enough if you know this, but my argument in all this is in my eyes I entered the casino with my £100, and was greated with the bonus, which I hadnt asked for, and the support staff last night said I agreed to, I can remember seeing a box to put a code in for a bonus, but I didnt put anything in there, so am not quite sure how I asked for it at all, but anyway I then proceeded to play - And as previously said I didnt expect to come away with any big amount, but what I did expect was when I clicked on 'play for real money' that if I won anything it would be mine, and if I lost anything it would be the casinos - I am sure I have no argument if I had lost my £100!!!).

Anyway rant over, and I am sorry for the way I have typed this, and grouped it together - I just wanted to get my side of the story across and typed it as I remembered it.

I am probably small fry, and my view in all this is more than likely not going to be considered in all this - but I have just come away from this with a very nasty taste in my mouth, and I am hoping you guys will see that I kinda feel cheated!!!

Thanks for taking the time to read to the bottom.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Nate

Paleo Meister (means really, really old)
webmeister
CAG
Joined
Feb 14, 2007
Location
Cyberspace
Betfair were recently put into the Rogue Pit by Casinomeister. You can read about it here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/betfair/

If you received a Bonus and played an excluded game, there is not much you can do. Although you mention that the Bonus was imposed on you without asking, surely you would have seen the bonus funds in your Balance?

I stand to be corrected as I am not very familiar with the Playtech Bonus system and the display thereof.

I think CM does not accept a PAB (Pitch a Bitch) for Rogued Casinos.

Nate
 

Scarlett.Irons

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Location
Cambridgeshire
Betfair were recently put into the Rogue Pit by Casinomeister. You can read about it here:

https://www.casinomeister.com/casino-reviews/betfair/

If you received a Bonus and played an excluded game, there is not much you can do. Although you mention that the Bonus was imposed on you without asking, surely you would have seen the bonus funds in your Balance?

I stand to be corrected as I am not very familiar with the Playtech Bonus system and the display thereof.

I think CM does not accept a PAB (Pitch a Bitch) for Rogued Casinos.

Nate

Hi Nate,
Thanks for your response.
Like I said previously, I obviously saw the bonus when it was in my account, but wasnt aware of all the terms of it.

The argument I have is why was I even allowed to take that bonus onto blackjack tables - if at the end of the day it was meaningless???

As said above - I clicked on 'play for real money' and I now feel that is not exactly what I have been given.
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Sorry guys, just realised I had made the mistake of saying Betfair when it ws actually Betfred.

Apologies Betfair - have now edited.

Well...no need no to apologize to Betfair :rolleyes:

Anyway. This is a clear case. I don`t like it when casinos automatically gives you a bonus. But thats the way they do it obviously.

If you did not want to use the bonus, then you should ask CS to remove it. If you choose to play with a bonus, then you need to follow the T&C

You can win "real money" with a bonus, so it is a real money play.

Sorry, but people needs to read T&C before playing at a new casino :)
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
If you didn't want the bonus, you should have told the customer service to remove it.

Still, to put one into your account without asking is uncool. Bonuses are not obligatory.
 

petro

Dormant account, per user request
PABaccred
PABnoaccred2
Joined
Nov 28, 2010
Location
Narnia
If I was in a situation where I was given a bonus that I didn't want the first thing I would have done is contact customer support and go from there. I am wondering why Scarlett.Irons did not do this.
 

Casinomeister

Forum Cheermeister
Staff member
Joined
Jun 30, 1998
Location
Bierland
If I was in a situation where I was given a bonus that I didn't want the first thing I would have done is contact customer support and go from there. I am wondering why Scarlett.Irons did not do this.

This could be the reason:

Hi All,
I am new to online Casino's & to this forum, and feel very disapointed with my first experience...

It could be that he just didn't know.

BTW - the casino peeps are already looking into this.
 

HodgeyBoy

Newbie member
Joined
Jul 11, 2007
Location
Andalucia, Spain
Hey there Scarlett - I work at BetFred so when I was made aware of your post I took a look and have now passed it to the Casino Team.

Your forum name reminds me of 'Gone With The Wind' so let me say that Frankly my Dear, I DO Give a Damn!

As soon as they have had a look I'll make sure that someone - probably me, comes back here to update the situation.
 

Scarlett.Irons

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Location
Cambridgeshire
This could be the reason:



It could be that he just didn't know.

BTW - the casino peeps are already looking into this.

Thanks Casinomeister.
I am not trying to cheat anyone here (although I feel cheated).
I really cant understand why I was allowed onto those tables with Betfred's bonus if I physically was not allowed to use it.
Is this the norm for all casinos?
If so - Its a bit wrong!!!
 

Scarlett.Irons

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Location
Cambridgeshire
Hey there Scarlett - I work at BetFred so when I was made aware of your post I took a look and have now passed it to the Casino Team.

Your forum name reminds me of 'Gone With The Wind' so let me say that Frankly my Dear, I DO Give a Damn!

As soon as they have had a look I'll make sure that someone - probably me, comes back here to update the situation.

Thank you HodgeyBoy.
I wouldnt normally make a song and dance about this, but to me that is a lot of money, and you wouldnt think that it would be possible to go from being absolutely over the moon, to feeling absolutely miserable in less than a minute.

Its not that I even was considering at that time of withdrawing - I only asked how I would go about it when I should want to.

But once again, Thanks.
 

LHofsdal

Ueber Meister
MM
Joined
Jan 9, 2010
Location
NY
Kudos, Hodgey!!! It is great that you have stepped right in to help this member out! Not something you see very often, (a reply from a rep within hours of the orginal post!)

LH
 

Christoff

Full Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2006
Location
Spain
Hodgey is a good guy (I know him personally) and I know he'll do his upmost to sort this problem out properly.

As for the moral of this thread, bonuses seem to be deceiving to new players.

I personally don't play with one so there is no problems.
 

Betfred

Dormant account
Joined
Dec 24, 2004
Location
UK
Hi,

Firstly thank you for your patience in awaiting a response.

We have now reviewed the account in question and can confirm that you are yet to meet the wagering requirements for the first deposit bonus that was awarded.

Kindly note, as per the terms & conditions for the first deposit bonus you must complete the required wagering before you are permitted to withdraw any winnings.

In addition you have been playing Blackjack Switch, which is actually an excluded game towards the required wagering. In fact our terms and conditions actually state the below:

“Roulette (All Types), BJ Switch and BJ Surrender (All Types), Spin A Win, Craps, Baccarat are restricted for wagering. Any wagering on these games will result in bonus and winnings being removed from a players account.”

On this occasion and as a gesture of goodwill we will not void your winnings but you will be required to complete the required wagering playing non excluded games before you are permitted to withdraw your accumulated winnings.

In regard to being awarded a bonus that you did not request, please note that the below screen appears prompting you to either accept or decline the bonus on offer before it is awarded.

attachment.php


As you can see we clearly display that terms & conditions apply. Unfortunately we cannot fit all of the terms & conditions via such a pop up message, which is why the onus is on the player to take the time to read the details via our website.

Even when the bonus has been awarded you still have the opportunity to have the funds removed as long as you make your request prior to placing any bets, as per section 5 of our General Bonus Rules, as seen below:

“If you do not wish to receive a bonus, you must contact our support team either by live chat or email support@betfredcasino.com to decline the bonus prior to placing any bets.”

We hope that this is a satisfactory explanation and conclusion to this issue that you have raised.

Should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to ask.

Phil
Casino Manager.
 

rainmaker

I'm not a penguin
Joined
Dec 28, 2010
Location
-
Thanks for a good reply Betfred (Phil, casino manager).

The OP did not tell us anything about this "screen" where he has to accept or decline the bonus. He said that the bonus was credited automatically, which is a lie. He claims to be unfamiliar with online casinos. That is OK. But I really can`t understand that someone could misunderstand that accpet/decline bonus offer.


On this occasion and as a gesture of goodwill we will not void your winnings but you will be required to complete the required wagering playing non excluded games before you are permitted to withdraw your accumulated winnings

In this case, I think that the casino should have voided the players winnings.
 

Scarlett.Irons

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Location
Cambridgeshire
Thank you Betfair for your response - and I am extremely grateful for the resolution you have made.

Betfair - Could you possibly message me on here to advise me how I find out how much I need to wager?

Rainmaker - I honestly dont remember this screen, and as being a newbie didnt realise that here would be a wager requirement on a bonus I didnt want.

I appreciate your input, but my argument is 'why was I allowed to play on those tables with the bonus which I physically could not win with'.

Anyway - once again, I really appreciate everyones help, and input.

I now need I guess to learn how to play another game - any recommendations to game I should play would be highly welcome.

PS - How do I do the whole thank users on the bottom of there posts???

THANKS
 

Scarlett.Irons

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Location
Cambridgeshire
You need a minimum of 10 posts for that to kick into gear :D

Thanks for getting back to me Casinomeister.
I have to say I am extremely impressed with this forum :thumbsup:
And if I was able I would thank everyone that been of assistance to me in here.

I have learnt a valid lesson as far as Casinos go, and have read somewhere in here that some users do not ever use the bonus, and maybe if you dont know the terms it makes sense.

THANKS EVERYONE
 

Scarlett.Irons

Dormant account
Joined
Feb 16, 2011
Location
Cambridgeshire
I have looked through what I cant play - which are:

“Roulette (All Types), BJ Switch and BJ Surrender (All Types), Spin A Win, Craps, Baccarat are restricted for wagering. Any wagering on these games will result in bonus and winnings being removed from a players account.”

And I am now obviously being cautious - can anyone give me any recommendations as to games that I can play please?

Thanks in advance (I am running out of thanks for you guys today)
 

De Beuker

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 20, 2009
Location
Netherlands
I have looked through what I cant play - which are:

“Roulette (All Types), BJ Switch and BJ Surrender (All Types), Spin A Win, Craps, Baccarat are restricted for wagering. Any wagering on these games will result in bonus and winnings being removed from a players account.”

And I am now obviously being cautious - can anyone give me any recommendations as to games that I can play please?

Thanks in advance (I am running out of thanks for you guys today)

When playing a bonus you usually cant go wrong with slots (always allowed, altough some casinos exclude progressive jacpot slots from bonusplay)
They are easy to play, you set a total bet per spin and click the SPIN button.
When you see a whole lot of the same symbols appear (left to right mostly) and the thing starts to make loads of noise, you won.:D

The Marvell superhero slots are great, especially Iron Man, Fantastic Four and The Hulk.
 

newjam

Dormant account
Joined
Aug 18, 2009
Location
Vienna
Looking at their t&cs you need to wager 20x deposit + bonus so that's 200x 20= 4000 on slots, so you're guaranteed 2k even in the unlikely event you lost all the wagering, pretty sweet offer.
 

vinylweatherman

You type well loads
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Location
United Kingdom
Hi,

Firstly thank you for your patience in awaiting a response.

We have now reviewed the account in question and can confirm that you are yet to meet the wagering requirements for the first deposit bonus that was awarded.

Kindly note, as per the terms & conditions for the first deposit bonus you must complete the required wagering before you are permitted to withdraw any winnings.

In addition you have been playing Blackjack Switch, which is actually an excluded game towards the required wagering. In fact our terms and conditions actually state the below:

“Roulette (All Types), BJ Switch and BJ Surrender (All Types), Spin A Win, Craps, Baccarat are restricted for wagering. Any wagering on these games will result in bonus and winnings being removed from a players account.”

On this occasion and as a gesture of goodwill we will not void your winnings but you will be required to complete the required wagering playing non excluded games before you are permitted to withdraw your accumulated winnings.

In regard to being awarded a bonus that you did not request, please note that the below screen appears prompting you to either accept or decline the bonus on offer before it is awarded.

attachment.php


As you can see we clearly display that terms & conditions apply. Unfortunately we cannot fit all of the terms & conditions via such a pop up message, which is why the onus is on the player to take the time to read the details via our website.

Even when the bonus has been awarded you still have the opportunity to have the funds removed as long as you make your request prior to placing any bets, as per section 5 of our General Bonus Rules, as seen below:

“If you do not wish to receive a bonus, you must contact our support team either by live chat or email support@betfredcasino.com to decline the bonus prior to placing any bets.”

We hope that this is a satisfactory explanation and conclusion to this issue that you have raised.

Should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to ask.

Phil
Casino Manager.

Including only PART of the terms is actually quite misleading, since it appears to be saying that only ROULETTE play is not allowed. Where it refers to "terms and conditions" it doesn't appear that they can be reached from within the casino (no "clickable" link). This only encourages players to skip reading them because they are not easy enough to get at from that stage in the process.

There is also no logic in confiscating winnings just because a game "does not count" towards meeting WR. There is no reason why your "goodwill gesture" should not be the NORM for EVERY player. Let them play what they like, but they MUST complete a set WR on the games "that count" before being allowed to withdraw, no matter HOW much they have played through on the other games.

Despite the apparent mistrust of "bonus players", it seems casinos still go to considerable lengths to get players to accept a bonus on their deposit.

Whilst experienced players will "know the ropes", a first time player could very easily have a very NEGATIVE first impression of the whole industry, which could scare them away for good, especially with the considerable negative publicity surrounding the issue from certain "vested interests" and politicians around the world.

This player was able to play a game they shouldn't because the software itself has deliberately NOT been adapted to assist the player in complying with the terms. It is NOT a case of "can't be done" either, it is a CHOICE on the part of the software provider to NOT implement software based compliance because it is CHEAPER to rely on the terms and conditions, and the ability they grant to confiscate the winnings after the fact. The ONLY victim of this cost cutting approach are the players who DON'T "know the ropes", and don't see any real need for them to FEAR any stipulations buried in the terms and conditions.

This player simply ASSUMED that they could trust the software to ONLY let them play in the style allowed, and believed that if they were able to open a game, place a bet, and play - it was OK to do so.

It is only TWO Blackjack games that are banned, and had this player played any other Blackjack game this problem would never have arisen. This again makes little sense, as surely ALL Blackjack games are just as "bad" for the casino, which makes most profit from the slots.

Sticking to slots is also no longer reliable advice, since there have been numerous cases where players have ONLY played slots, yet STILL had their winnings confiscated.

The SAFEST approach is to not play online at all - the regulations are pretty lax and player unfriendly compared with B & M casinos. A B & M casino also has to obey the laws where the player is located, whereas ONLINE casinos obey the laws in carefully chosen jurisdictions that offer the best compromise with regard to taxation and regulation. A player sitting on a PC in England could find they are betting under the laws of Costa Rica or Malta, yet THINK that it is their own DOMESTIC laws that apply (until they become more experienced, and realise this is almost NEVER the case).
 

pinsnpies

Experienced Member
PABaccred
PABnononaccred
Joined
Sep 10, 2008
Location
Bangor North Wales UK
The new marvel slots are good. Who knows you may even win more. Imo playtech slots trump the bloted tripe provided by microgaming hands down. Its just that 4 day pending period for withdrawals which let the vast majority of the show down.
 

Deeplay

New World Order
webmeister
CAG
mm1
Joined
Aug 27, 2008
Location
The biG Eu
I think this is a pretty good result for the player. As no matter what he will be up when requirments are met. Agreed the casino could have had a clickable link on the pop up box to open in a new window for the terms & conditions. But again it comes down to ALWAYS reading the terms and NEVER presume anything when it comes to online gambling. At least in this case the casino didnt drag their heels and came forward with a solution that seems fair all round. If in doubt dont take the bonus!
 
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