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Betfred - Sneaky hidden bonus terms

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Bonus Issues' started by brutaldeluxe, Mar 1, 2010.

    Mar 1, 2010
  1. brutaldeluxe

    brutaldeluxe Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    UK
    Hi, just a warning to others so you don't get caught out like I did.


    I've had a few emails with subject "You have a surprise" lately from Betfred with offers of a bonus. The most recent ones had this sentence.....

    "For example, when you deposit GBP 400 you'll receive the maximum bonus and play with 600 GBP for better chances to win. Click here for full details."


    Click here for full details, a link which explained the terms and conditions. OK cool


    The most recent email was very similar except it didn't have a click here for full details sentence in it. At the bottom of the email it said....

    "Betfred Casino House Rules and General Bonus Rules apply."


    Ok fine.


    It turns out that the PICTURE in the email which says "You have a surprise" was in fact a link to the terms and conditions of this bonus. This bonus was different as .....

    "This bonus is for play purposes only and will be removed from a players balance once a withdrawal/transfer has been made."



    This is all sneakily hidden away and it's not at all obvious that the picture is a link. In fact there is nothing to suggest it is. Nothing which says click here or anything.


    Unfortunately I was caught out and deposited 750 for a 100% bonus only to find out that after being tied to a massive wagering that the bonus I had was worthless. I complained to live support and they said oh sorry for any confusion but tough luck.

    I PM'ed the betfred rep here and he said oh your 20% cashback has now been credited (Big deal I would have gotten that anyway) and as a gesture of good will he credited me 50. Of course both those had another playthrough requirement on them too, needless to say they didn't last long.


    Losing is never fun but it happens. But I can't but help feel like I have been conned a bit here. Very sneaky term hidden away very nicely. So be aware.......don't make the same mistake I did and think twice before playing with Betfred as if something goes wrong it doesn't seem like they are too bothered.
     
    1 person likes this.
  2. Mar 1, 2010
  3. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    This is VERY poor indeed, any bonus subject to special terms must make this ABSOLUTELY CLEAR. Since this bonus could be claimed WITHOUT clicking on the picture, this is NOT GOOD ENOUGH, since many players would assume (quite rightly) that NORMAL house rules applied.

    If there were special terms, there should have been an OBVIOUS link, with text to the effect "click here for terms and conditions for this offer". Ideally they should have made an extra effort to indicate these terms were NOT simply the "house rules", and that players had to read them.

    The difference is crucial, because it could influence whether the player was prepared to deposit for the offer. The WR might seem reasonable for a "normal" bonus, but NOT for a phantom one, and the player would then have declined the offer.

    Now, players caught out by this will be looking for further "tricks", and this weakens the trust they formerly had in the brand - they will assume that OTHER bonuses will have "hidden" terms, and they might be even worse than the bonus merely being phantom, such as max cashouts, different game restrictions, and max bet restrictions, all of which have caught out players at many other establishments.
     
  4. Mar 2, 2010
  5. zippedup

    zippedup Dormant account

    Occupation:
    retired
    Location:
    Atlanta suburb of alpharetta
    There are actually quite a few casinos that don't allow you to keep the bonus they give you no matter how much you win. I avoid these like the plague. They do give you the extra money to play with but you always must remember their are no games where the house doesn't have some advantage. So the more you gamble the better your chance of losing.

    Some of the terms at these places can be quite confusing(on purpose no doubt). One has to read the terms very very carefully:mad:
     
  6. Mar 2, 2010
  7. brutaldeluxe

    brutaldeluxe Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    UK
    Well I just got another "you have a surprise" email from betfred. This time is does have a click here for details sentence so that is good.
    Upon clicking it I see that it is offering me the phantom bonus again.
    I knew to look out for it this time........it's just a pity that they conned me the first time and it cost me 750 to realise this.

    Suffice to say I won't be betting with betfraud, er betfred again in a hurry.
     
    1 person likes this.
  8. Mar 2, 2010
  9. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    Looks like someone spotted the error, and corrected it for the next time, but what about an APOLOGY for those who were caught out the first time.

    There are many casinos offering this kind of bonus, but players expect to be told this is what is on offer, especially if this is NOT normal for that particular casino.

    Casinos like to be creative, but they should also ensure that their creativity does NOT cause bad feeling among players who didn't quite grasp the promotion, but grasped enough to "give it a go" anyway.
    I have often seen promotions where the ONLY way to fully understand them is to have a go, and look back on how things worked out. The LAST thing I would appreciate is finding out I had LESS money coming to me than the visible balance in my account after finishing play, and any WR on any promotional bonuses - often, there is more to come, such as a manager extra, lucky draw win, or even ending up higher on the scoreboard than I expected. I play many of these at MGS casinos, and bonuses for regular players have ALWAYS been cashable, so if the bonus balance shows zero, I KNOW that what sits in my account is ALL mine, and free to be withdrawn.
     
  10. Mar 20, 2010
  11. sparkz

    sparkz Senior Member

    Occupation:
    sales
    Location:
    Earth
    betfred are a certain nono... the casino is owned by a non uk company called "petfre" and its simply poor...

    as mentioned before i played with £300+ of my deposits... blackjack was a losing streak constantly. Every bet over £3 would lose.

    Then I went on and played slots. 50p a spin. Not 1 bonus. Most of my spins won nothing except 1 or 2 which were just about 70p and there was a few winning less than my spin amount.

    When all was lost..I simply asked them if there was a chance for a free chip to grant me a bit more entertainment seeing that my £300+ worth of deposits were almost mugged off me. Live support said no...

    I then emailed their support direct. A manager replied and also said nope.


    Avoid!!!
     
  12. Apr 16, 2012
  13. Betfred

    Betfred Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Hi everyone,

    I'm the new casino manager at Betfred and I'm trying to do the rounds here, picking up old threads and getting feedback.

    First off, a big thanks to brutaldeluxe for pointing me to this one.

    In regards to the main issue here: bonus terms and conditions, their clarity and accessibility, is of paramount importance to me. Putting the link in images, which can break, is very bad practice. I will be tightening up emails, making sure bonus terms are present or clearly linked to in an appropriate page, and equally ensuring that t&cs are clear and in line with industry expectations. Furthermore, I will be ensuring that adequate compensation is awarded when Betfred is at fault, because, let's face it, everyone can make mistakes - people just need to hold their hands up and make the best of a bad situation.

    If you can PM usernames I can review accounts and add goodwill bonuses where applicable, including you please sparkz, who's experience here definitely warranted a bonus of some form.

    Also, I'm reviewing the use of non redeemable bonuses here and will be making adjustments in either the wagering requirements or making the actual bonus amounts redeemable.

    Kind regards,

    Aaron
     
    4 people like this.
  14. Apr 16, 2012
  15. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    Good work Aaron!

    Some promising ideas.

    Could you please review the minimum coin value of your new slots? E.g. Viking, gems and panda . It is currently .20c minimum which means $4 per spin which means you're excluding a lot of players, including me. The same with the circle soft slot it goes from $1 a spin straight to $100 with nothing in between.

    If you would consider this I would most definitely play at betfred more than I do currently.
     
    3 people like this.
  16. Apr 17, 2012
  17. brutaldeluxe

    brutaldeluxe Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    UK
    Well I got given a £50 bonus with 20x wagering requirement (game weightings apply) and apparently that is supposed to make it ok.
    I did point out that's what the first betfred rep offered me so it would appear different name, same practices.
    After being conned out of £750 I didn't really feel that was adequate compensation but after saying this to Aaron apparently this is supposed
    to be fair. So for me, nothing has changed at betfred. I would be interested to hear if anyone else gets on any better.
     
  18. Apr 17, 2012
  19. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    I agree. It's very disappointing.

    Aaron had a real chance to show how genuine betfred is now. A bonus that you're almost certain to lose isn't even close to fair compensation.
     
  20. Apr 17, 2012
  21. sattty

    sattty Senior Member

    Occupation:
    im disabled so cant work now..but used to be in th
    Location:
    wakefield
    i would imagine the outcome of that will be very few people from here signing upto them
     
  22. Apr 17, 2012
  23. brutaldeluxe

    brutaldeluxe Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    UK
    He said he could be more generous if I deposit again but then I just feel like it's all a ploy to get me to deposit more money and tie
    me into a massive wagering requirement no doubt and hence I lose more cash but it looks good for him as he is drumming up more business
    but at the pretence of trying to right past wrongs. Call me paranoid but thats what it now looks like to me.
    Contrast that with someone like 32Red.......that just wouldn't happen with them.
     
  24. Apr 17, 2012
  25. Nifty29

    Nifty29 Dormant account

    Occupation:
    PAID CASINO SHILL
    Location:
    Turn right, then right. then right again
    He asked you to DEPOSIT again on the promise of a better compensation offer for THEIR mistake? Wow. I admit my first impressions of him were positive, but trying to coax you to deposit in return for his "generosity" is really scraping the bottom of the barrel.

    In fact, I would contact Bryan as I really think this gives forum reps a bad name, which isnt fair. No way would reps from other accredited casinos here even consider "wheeling and dealing" with an aggrieved player, especially when the casino has admitted fault.

    The amount and form of compensation offered is a reflection of how sorry a business is about how they treated a customer. Hence, betfred obviously aren't sorry at all.

    I reckon if betfred had said "here's $100 no strings and please accept our apologies" the players reading this thread would have been left with a very positive feeling about the casino. Instead, being miserly and unreasonable has created a negative vibe. You cannot buy the good PR you get in forums for doing the right thing, and betfred missed the bus big time.

    In fact, if it was another member telling us this story, I'd be checking my calendar again to make sure it wasn't April 1st.
     
  26. Apr 17, 2012
  27. Betfred

    Betfred Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    UK
    Hi all,

    Feel I need to clarify my decisions here. I combined the fact that a bonus was added as compensation initially by the VIP manager at Betfred and added another, doubling the compensation, and, because one of the issues was that previous compensation was in none redeemable bonus, I made it fully redeemable this time. I feel this addressed both compensation and this issue. I apologies if I missed the mark here, it certainly wasn't meant as a slight.

    Also, the offer of a deposit bonus was not pushed, it was merely to improve the player's experience should the player chose to play with us again. Again, apologies if this was misconstrued.

    Nifty, I will be looking at coin sizes; in fact I'm investigating large default bet sizes on some of the new games tomorrow. I will tack this on to that job. Thanks for the heads up.

    Kind regards,
    Aaron
     
  28. Apr 18, 2012
  29. brutaldeluxe

    brutaldeluxe Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    UK
    Put yourself in my position. I deposited £750 for a bonus. It turns out I didn't get what I thought I was getting. What I actually got was a worthless bonus.
    The email made me think I was getting something I wasn't.
    I was now tied into a big wagering requirement and I had a worthless bonus. I did indeed lose the entire £750. It was clearly a mistake as the next set of emails
    offering this bonus had links to the terms properly, rather than being hidden in a picture which didn't even say click here. This mistake cost me £750.
    It didn't cost betfred anything, in fact it made them some money.


    Now as compensation I have been given 2 x £50 bonuses with 20x wagering requirement. So that's £100 of bonus with a £2000 wagering requirement on it.
    After I have wagered £2000 on slots exactly how much of that £100 do you think I might have left ? Do you think that some equates or is adequate
    for being conned out of £750 ? If you do then that is why betfred has a very bad reputation. You said in your PM to me that you indeed thought this was fair.
    Also you seem to think that I should be depositing yet more in order for you to be more generous.

    Betfred haven't been generous at all. They have conned me out of £750 and tried to pass me off with £100 of bonus with a 20x wagering requirement and act
    like they did the honourable thing. Aaron should I perhaps ask some other casino reps like say Mark at 32red and see if they agree that your compensation is fair ?
    It seems you have set out to try and put things right but in actual fact you are just re-affirming what everyone already knows about betfred.
     
  30. Apr 18, 2012
  31. zeledrith

    zeledrith Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Team Manager
    Location:
    Singapore
    Non-cashable bonuses are annoying, I hope casinos stop offering them.

    Betfred has been providing me same day withdrawals to Skrill recently and thats great.

    However for a casino that claims to be the bonus king, their bonuses are kind of shabby :p
     
  32. Apr 18, 2012
  33. Betfred

    Betfred Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Casino Manager
    Location:
    UK
    I obviously did miss the mark on this one. I was trying to put right a wrong that was done in 2010 - a wrong I couldn't even verify and was relying on your word alone - which was why compensation came in the form of a modest bonus. I will change the £50 bonus to cash and I hope we can move on (and I can learn). Change should take effect shortly.

    zeledrith, I will be reviewing the bonus system and I'm taking all the feedback I can from here. Not unsurprisingly, none redeemable bonuses aren't popular :)

    Kind regards,

    Aaron
     
    2 people like this.
  34. Apr 18, 2012
  35. brutaldeluxe

    brutaldeluxe Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Other
    Location:
    UK
    Well £50 is better than nothing I guess. I had long since written off any hope on this issue anyway.
    I'll let the forum members and audience be the judges if they think that is fair.
    They shall vote with their feet so to say afterall.
     
  36. Apr 18, 2012
  37. Tirilej

    Tirilej Still a Lady CAG MM

    Occupation:
    Breathing
    Location:
    Sweden
    My feets are saying that it was an honorable thing the Rep did, digging up an old thread and try to solve the problem :thumbsup:

    He feels like the genuin kind that actually are listening and are wanting to make a bad reputation better.

    My opinion only, but so far I like what he's trying to do;)
     

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