Bonus Complaint Betfred Not Paying £7.5k Win Due to Single Mistaken Bet

[dunover]

Right, so some players basically, at huge complication, cost and inconvenience want casinos to IDIOT-PROOF everything??

Let's not have clear bonus terms and conditions, but let a portal for the game, or pop-up do everything for you. This fantastic piece of software would simply appear when you accepted any bonus, and would flash up a skull and crossbones every time you attempted a bet in violation of that bonus, which daily the extra staff taken on would have religiously programmed the portal to do.

Even better, when you have met the WR, a smiley face could appear say "Hey, you've now met your WR, did you know if you cashed out now, you would have made xxx profit which you could spend shopping?"

Then it could say "Are you eating a balanced diet? Don't eat pizza while you play, why not get a grab-bag of red grapes?"

It could even remind you of your local time: "It's 1 o'clock in the morning and you are still playing - do you know most physicians recommend at least 7 1/2 hours sleep a night? WELL DO YOU? Please fill in the check box to acknowledge this advice or I will SHUT the games down for 24 hours!"

 

[petr1]

Right, so some players basically, at huge complication, cost and inconvenience want casinos to IDIOT-PROOF everything??

Let's not have clear bonus terms and conditions, but let a portal for the game, or pop-up do everything for you. This fantastic piece of software would simply appear when you accepted any bonus, and would flash up a skull and crossbones every time you attempted a bet in violation of that bonus, which daily the extra staff taken on would have religiously programmed the portal to do.

Even better, when you have met the WR, a smiley face could appear say "Hey, you've now met your WR, did you know if you cashed out now, you would have made xxx profit which you could spend shopping?"

Then it could say "Are you eating a balanced diet? Don't eat pizza while you play, why not get a grab-bag of red grapes?"

It could even remind you of your local time: "It's 1 o'clock in the morning and you are still playing - do you know most physicians recommend at least 7 1/2 hours sleep a night? WELL DO YOU? Please fill in the check box to acknowledge this advice or I will SHUT the games down for 24 hours!"

Yeah, no. If a casino doesn't WANT you to bet more than 20% of your balance, don't let the players do that. It's not "idiot-proofing" everything. It just prevents mistakes like losing £7.5k happening. It seems many people would be on the casino's side even if the player had broken the terms by accidentally clicking max bet and thus breaking bet limit rule. I don't see any logical reason for the button other than a trap for players. I've lost some amount after accidentally clicking max bet and then continuing doing normal bets. Soon I noticed that I have made huge bets.

 

[Mouche12]

Right, so some players basically, at huge complication, cost and inconvenience want casinos to IDIOT-PROOF everything??

Let's not have clear bonus terms and conditions, but let a portal for the game, or pop-up do everything for you. This fantastic piece of software would simply appear when you accepted any bonus, and would flash up a skull and crossbones every time you attempted a bet in violation of that bonus, which daily the extra staff taken on would have religiously programmed the portal to do.

Even better, when you have met the WR, a smiley face could appear say "Hey, you've now met your WR, did you know if you cashed out now, you would have made xxx profit which you could spend shopping?"

Then it could say "Are you eating a balanced diet? Don't eat pizza while you play, why not get a grab-bag of red grapes?"

It could even remind you of your local time: "It's 1 o'clock in the morning and you are still playing - do you know most physicians recommend at least 7 1/2 hours sleep a night? WELL DO YOU? Please fill in the check box to acknowledge this advice or I will SHUT the games down for 24 hours!"

Lol, too funny. Although NetEnt does have a pop up after X hours played, telling that you have lost/won [amount] during your current session.

 

[Nifty29]

Yeah, no. If a casino doesn't WANT you to bet more than 20% of your balance, don't let the players do that. It's not "idiot-proofing" everything. It just prevents mistakes like losing £7.5k happening. It seems many people would be on the casino's side even if the player had broken the terms by accidentally clicking max bet and thus breaking bet limit rule. I don't see any logical reason for the button other than a trap for players. I've lost some amount after accidentally clicking max bet and then continuing normal bets. Soon I noticed that I have made huge bets.

Maybe someone like Enzo would be able to tell us how many people use the "max bet" button? Or maybe another rep if they know?

Just about every slot I've played has had a max bet button in one form or another, and I've never come across a serious campaign by players to eliminate it.....and I find that odd if it is the "huge issue" that some are making it out to be.

Petr....the amount is immaterial....unless you're saying that larger depositors should be held to different rules and standards e.g. if the OP had deposited $20 and had $150 confiscated, most of you wouldn't have even blinked an eye, or at least wouldn't have posted, and that includes the OP. After all, we would be talking about the same deposit vs winnings ratio. What is lots of money to some is a "normal" deposit amount for others I.e. if the OP was happy to deposit $1000 in the first place, then it places 7.5k in a very different light.

 

[Nifty29]

Right, so some players basically, at huge complication, cost and inconvenience want casinos to IDIOT-PROOF everything??

Let's not have clear bonus terms and conditions, but let a portal for the game, or pop-up do everything for you. This fantastic piece of software would simply appear when you accepted any bonus, and would flash up a skull and crossbones every time you attempted a bet in violation of that bonus, which daily the extra staff taken on would have religiously programmed the portal to do.

Even better, when you have met the WR, a smiley face could appear say "Hey, you've now met your WR, did you know if you cashed out now, you would have made xxx profit which you could spend shopping?"

Then it could say "Are you eating a balanced diet? Don't eat pizza while you play, why not get a grab-bag of red grapes?"

It could even remind you of your local time: "It's 1 o'clock in the morning and you are still playing - do you know most physicians recommend at least 7 1/2 hours sleep a night? WELL DO YOU? Please fill in the check box to acknowledge this advice or I will SHUT the games down for 24 hours!"

Very very funny dununder

Scary thing is....there will be some thinking "Yes! Exactly! The casinos should be forced to do that!". Its a worry.

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. Very apt when it comes to casino/bonus terms.

Even scaryMouche scaryMouche is doing the Fandango on this one

 

[cass1071]

Yeah, no. If a casino doesn't WANT you to bet more than 20% of your balance, don't let the players do that.

This reminds me of a post recently (27-05) about Casino Tropez confiscating a players winnings because they requested a withdrawal prior to meeting the play-through requirements. Their balance was reduced to the original deposit amount of $2k and all history relating to the $40k the player had attempted to withdraw could not be accessed.

As a Playtech fan, I compared T&C's at Tropez against accredited Omni; -

Tropez; "If you withdraw before having reached the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void"

and Omni, "Withdrawal prior to meeting the wagering requirements is not permitted"

so safe to say Tropez would loathe your pop-up idea as quite clearly human error is a money spinner for them.

Worthy of a mention - I too play at BF (usually the downloaded software) and with this version whatever my last bet was on a particular slot will be the preset wager next time I login. I got caught - downloaded software last bet was $5, started playing same machine in flash version and preset wager was $25, and without thinking played it. If I attempted a withdrawal on a bonus...no pay for me either. I think there is a little rogue in all of them.

And for the record the BF issue I danced around yesterday was quickly and effectively resolved - my money was paid today. Thank you Aaron and a huge thank you to the wonderful Lauren who was ever so gracious even with me whinging (not pleasant believe me)

 

[Nifty29]

This reminds me of a post recently (27-05) about Casino Tropez confiscating a players winnings because they requested a withdrawal prior to meeting the play-through requirements. Their balance was reduced to the original deposit amount of $2k and all history relating to the $40k the player had attempted to withdraw could not be accessed.

As a Playtech fan, I compared T&C's at Tropez against accredited Omni; -

Tropez; "If you withdraw before having reached the minimum wagering requirements, your bonus and winnings will be void"

and Omni, "Withdrawal prior to meeting the wagering requirements is not permitted"

so safe to say Tropez would loathe your pop-up idea as quite clearly human error is a money spinner for them.

Worthy of a mention - I too play at BF (usually the downloaded software) and with this version whatever my last bet was on a particular slot will be the preset wager next time I login. I got caught - downloaded software last bet was $5, started playing same machine in flash version and preset wager was $25, and without thinking played it. If I attempted a withdrawal on a bonus...no pay for me either. I think there is a little rogue in all of them.

And for the record the BF issue I danced around yesterday was quickly and effectively resolved - my money was paid today. Thank you Aaron and a huge thank you to the wonderful Lauren who was ever so gracious even with me whinging (not pleasant believe me)

You're right about Tropez. The terms stink and they have a poor reputation.

However, we all have the power of choice, and the terms are quite clear. If one cant be arsed reading them....then it is their fault is things go pear shaped when they make a mistake etc.

 

[dunover]

Very very funny dununder

Scary thing is....there will be some thinking "Yes! Exactly! The casinos should be forced to do that!". Its a worry.

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. Very apt when it comes to casino/bonus terms.

Even scaryMouche scaryMouche is doing the Fandango on this one

Classic, best laugh I've had all day......

 

[Sovietsky]

I belive that everyone will sooner or later hit that max button someday. I have hit it a few times. Things like that can happen and will happen.

So far there are no solutions to the max bet other then don't play with a bonus but I would sure like to see a warning box or something that disables the bonus.
I'am thinking what if I won a jackpot and in all happiness accidently pressed the spacebar or the max bet. Well Sovietsky if you had read the T&C then it is all your own fault.

 

[chayton]

So there's ONLY a link. Many people never check T&Cs. They don't realize that predatory terms do exist: That could result in all youre winnings being confiscated due to one single isolated spin.

hahahaha....sorry but this cracked me up. First of all, the OP WAS aware of the rule so that doesn't apply here. And second, people who don't read the terms of a bonus shouldn't be taking bonuses. And third, how is it predatory that the casino doesn't let you bet more than $100 per spin when you're using THEIR money?

You're just being silly.

 

[mathsboy1975]

I belive that everyone will sooner or later hit that max button someday. I have hit it a few times. Things like that can happen and will happen.

So far there are no solutions to the max bet other then don't play with a bonus but I would sure like to see a warning box or something that disables the bonus.
I'am thinking what if I won a jackpot and in all happiness accidently pressed the spacebar or the max bet. Well Sovietsky if you had read the T&C then it is all your own fault.

I have been thinking about this more and more regarding the max bet button. I do not like them (which is irrelevant), but is it not the case that on most slots the max bet is relative to the coin size selected? In which case you could ensure that you never exceeded any bonus max limitation by setting the coin value low enough that even max bet at this coin value is still under the bonus limit. If that is the case the "I accidentally hit max bet" excuse should never be used when breaking bonus limit rules.

Don't get me wrong, I find it frustrating - only today I got stung. I played first Battlestar Galactica - that slot just spins as normal when you tap the space bar. Then I moved onto The Dark Knight (same casino) and the space bar there not only spins, but puts you at max bet first. I was only playing for toy money but I find the inconsistency between games a little irritating.

 

[Sovietsky]

I have been thinking about this more and more regarding the max bet button. I do not like them (which is irrelevant), but is it not the case that on most slots the max bet is relative to the coin size selected? In which case you could ensure that you never exceeded any bonus max limitation by setting the coin value low enough that even max bet at this coin value is still under the bonus limit. If that is the case the "I accidentally hit max bet" excuse should never be used when breaking bonus limit rules.

Don't get me wrong, I find it frustrating - only today I got stung. I played first Battlestar Galactica - that slot just spins as normal when you tap the space bar. Then I moved onto The Dark Knight (same casino) and the space bar there not only spins, but puts you at max bet first. I was only playing for toy money but I find the inconsistency between games a little irritating.

Let's say you play starburst but you want to play 5 lines only so you select coinvalue to say 0.50€ and total bet is 2,5€ and if you would hit the max bet then it selects all lines (10 lines) at level 10 so the bet would then be 50€. Imagine doing that with a slot that has 20 lines 100€ or more.

I personaly play 5 lines on piggy riches and blood suckers.

 

[mathsboy1975]

Let's say you play starburst but you want to play 5 lines only so you select coinvalue to say 0.50€ and total bet is 2,5€ and if you would hit the max bet then it selects all lines (10 lines) at level 10 so the bet would then be 50€. Imagine doing that with a slot that has 20 lines 100€ or more.

I personaly play 5 lines on piggy riches and blood suckers.

Yeah but surely it cannot increase your COIN value?? That would enable you to annihilate your entire bankroll in one spin!!

 

[Sovietsky]

Yeah but surely it cannot increase your COIN value?? That would enable you to annihilate your entire bankroll in one spin!!

Coinvalue is whatever you choosed, but you get max lines and max level. Haven't you played netent slots before? You could try it out.

 

[mathsboy1975]

Coinvalue is whatever you choosed, but you get max lines and max level. Haven't you played netent slots before? You could try it out.

Yeah I have but not often and luckily I never hit max bet there... yet. I just did a free version of starburst to test it out. As you said, coins do stay the same but level and lines go to the maximum. So in that case you could still set the coin level low enough to never go over any bonus bet limitations, although you would need to be even more careful.

 

[dionysus]

Oh, I've hit that max button a dozen times (chatting and not paying attention, mouse slips, bug touches the touch screen)...and never yet hit when it has (grr).....but if I did I'd take it and run, so I can't cry foul to the casino when it doesn't hit

 

[Mouche12]

Very very funny dununder

Scary thing is....there will be some thinking "Yes! Exactly! The casinos should be forced to do that!". Its a worry.

You can lead a horse to water but you cant make it drink. Very apt when it comes to casino/bonus terms.

Even scaryMouche scaryMouche is doing the Fandango on this one

Why scaryMouche - I am a very lovable person Nifty

Anyway, the fact remains that this is not good publicity for BF. And I am still of the opinion that it could be argued before a court of law that one honest single mistake (if this can be proven, also taking into account that the OP had failed to contact support right after it happened) should not entitle BF to confiscate the OPs winnings, because the OP had no intention of violating the rules.

 

[dionysus]

Why scaryMouche - I am a very lovable person Nifty

Anyway, the fact remains that this is not good publicity for BF. And I am still of the opinion that it could be argued before a court of law that one honest single mistake (if this can be proven, also taking into account that the OP had failed to contact support right after it happened) should not entitle BF to confiscate the OPs winnings, because the OP had no intention of violating the rules.

yes, but unfortunately, that logic doesnt much work:

'sorry y'honour, I didnt mean to kill 'im, just wound 'im a bit'

'what stop sign? oh, if I'd seen it, I'd have stopped, I promise'

 

[petr1]

hahahaha....sorry but this cracked me up. First of all, the OP WAS aware of the rule so that doesn't apply here. And second, people who don't read the terms of a bonus shouldn't be taking bonuses. And third, how is it predatory that the casino doesn't let you bet more than $100 per spin when you're using THEIR money?

You're just being silly.

Hahahahaha. Expect they do let you bet more than $100 per spin and in the process take everything you have won. Bonus money isn't their money, it's BONUS MONEY which you bought with real money. Difference is that you have to wager the bonus money.

People who don't read terms shouldn't take bonuses? Sure but that'll never happen. There are always new players that don't know that casinos are filled with traps and predatory terms and that's why I think casinos should force the rules technically (bet limits, restricted games etc.)

I have been thinking about this more and more regarding the max bet button. I do not like them (which is irrelevant), but is it not the case that on most slots the max bet is relative to the coin size selected? In which case you could ensure that you never exceeded any bonus max limitation by setting the coin value low enough that even max bet at this coin value is still under the bonus limit. If that is the case the "I accidentally hit max bet" excuse should never be used when breaking bonus limit rules.

Don't get me wrong, I find it frustrating - only today I got stung. I played first Battlestar Galactica - that slot just spins as normal when you tap the space bar. Then I moved onto The Dark Knight (same casino) and the space bar there not only spins, but puts you at max bet first. I was only playing for toy money but I find the inconsistency between games a little irritating.

Yeah? What if I want to play Space Wars with a 0.40€ minimum bet. I would set a coin size of 0.01€ and coin value to 1. Hitting Max Bet would make a 4.00€ bet and it could break the rules e.g. on Betfred if I had balance lower than 20€.

 

[dionysus]

Hahahahaha. Expect they do let you bet more than $100 per spin and in the process take everything you have won. Bonus money isn't their money, it's BONUS MONEY which you bought with real money. Difference is that you have to wager the bonus money.

People who don't read terms should take bonuses? Sure but that'll never happen. There are always new players that don't know that casinos are filled with traps and predatory terms and that's why I think casinos should force the rules technically (bet limits, restricted games etc.)


Yeah? What if I want to play Space Wars with a 0.40€ minimum bet. I would set a coin size of 0.01€ and coin value to 1. Hitting Max Bet would make a 4.00€ bet and it could break the rules e.g. on Betfred if I had balance lower than 20€.

But is IS their money - you don't own it, control it and cannot withdraw it, until you meet their terms

 

[Mouche12]

yes, but unfortunately, that logic doesnt much work:

'sorry y'honour, I didnt mean to kill 'im, just wound 'im a bit'

'what stop sign? oh, if I'd seen it, I'd have stopped, I promise'

Sorry, but those are poor analogies IMO. The OP was aware that she had mistakenly raised her bet in excess of the maximum allowed - but courts also apply the principles of fairness and reasonableness. Given the fact that it was only one spin (by mistake), the OP clearly had no intention of breaking the rules, which leads us to the question whether BF was in accordance with those principles entitled to confiscate the OPs winnings.

 

[dionysus]

who guaranteed life's fair? If it were, I'd withdraw 50% of the time. And frankly, we've only the op's word it was accidental..you think I tell the cop 'oh yes, sir, I totally meant to do 20 over, but it was only this one time'

 

[Sovietsky]

Oh, I've hit that max button a dozen times (chatting and not paying attention, mouse slips, bug touches the touch screen)...and never yet hit when it has (grr).....but if I did I'd take it and run, so I can't cry foul to the casino when it doesn't hit

If you lose the casino would not say anything if you win they would void your winnings. Pretty simple.

 

[petr1]

who guaranteed life's fair? If it were, I'd withdraw 50% of the time. And frankly, we've only the op's word it was accidental..you think I tell the cop 'oh yes, sir, I totally meant to do 20 over, but it was only this one time'

Who cares if it was accidental or not? If it was only one bet that was over the 20% limit it's still unreasonable and unfair to confiscate everything.

There's no way I could support Betfred actions, they need to understand that humans aren't robots.

 

[Mouche12]

who guaranteed life's fair? If it were, I'd withdraw 50% of the time. And frankly, we've only the op's word it was accidental..you think I tell the cop 'oh yes, sir, I totally meant to do 20 over, but it was only this one time'

The "Life's not fair" quote is just a platitude. The principles of fairness and reasonabless are there for a reason in the judiciary - to make life (less un)fair! I also mentioned earlier that it needs to be proven, of course, that the OP has indeed made an honest mistake.