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Betfair - Casino History wrong

Discussion in 'Casino Complaints - Non-Bonus Issues' started by poser, Jun 9, 2008.

    Jun 9, 2008
  1. poser

    poser Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Hamburg
    Hi,

    after I had this extreme bad streak in Black Jack at Betfair Casino (The dealer had soo many natural BJs, that I thought the game was broken.) I looked at the hand history and realized, that at least 50% of the hands were missing.

    I mailed this to Betfair and only got the answer, that it is to hard to get out my hand history. And then I got the hint to delete my temp. internet files and my cookies and my browser history to avoid this in future !!!

    I think this answer is just a joke. What has the hand history to do with my browser ????

    My brother played BJ there too, one day after it and had nearly the same. Too many nat. BJs and a series of 20 (!) losses and ties.

    I normally wouldn't think Betfair is rigged, but I would believe that this game is just broken.
    Wasn't it Betfait, that had that broken poker client last year, that awarded a prizepool of 150% in SnGs ? I think they realized it only 8 hours later and lost 1 or 2 million US$ !!!

    Glitchy....
     
  2. Jun 9, 2008
  3. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    I would like to add to this complaint that Betfair has refused to send me the hand history of a playing session where I had statistically very unlikely results. First they said that they will get the hand history from software provider (Chartwell), but then they replied that they will not send me the hand history after all and now they don't even reply to my e-mails anymore.

    I understand that it might be extra effort for them to get the hand history, but no reputable casino can refuse to send player data of their play. I think it is a serious breach of player security if the player is given no possibility to review his history and verify the fairness and randomness of the results s/he received.
     
  4. Jun 9, 2008
  5. Roar

    Roar Dormant account

    Occupation:
    SE
    Location:
    Philippines
    The incidence of missing play history data is something belatedly coming to the fore. A player recently reported a rotten BJ run at UniBet (Net Entertainment) where the proliferation of BJs on face value defied statistical tolerance.

    An unwitting UniBet CSR responded that there was "no blackjack play history" on which to report. The player has pressed UniBet for further details but has yet to receive a response as to the whereabouts of his play history.

    Another player requested play data from PF Games (and her cash out). After threatening to lodge a complaint with Maltese LGA she eventually got the cash but the gaming history has never seen the light of day.

    It has been said on these Forum pages before. The audited casino play history data is cherry picked. The play history that does not suit the online Casinos needs does not make it to the auditors desk.

    And the auditors always make mention of this exact point in their respective reports where they file the disclaimer that "the results of this audit are based upon the data presented".

    Where a casino fails to furnish on request a full play history then IMHO on complaint to a properly functioning regulatory authority (Maltese LGA - lolz) the player would receive a full refund of all monies lost. If a player (and/or Casino) is not able to independently review (audit) the play history for fairness then that player has been fundamentally denied what is known as "procedural fairness".

    The concept of "procedural fairness" operates at all levels of criminal, commercial and administrative Law. I have no doubt it would operate within places such as the Maltese LGA.

    Betfair supposedly operates under the Maltese LGA as does UniBet, PF Games and our friends down at Interwetten.

    /
     
  6. Jun 9, 2008
  7. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    FYI, I have notified the rep of this thread. He's pretty good about looking into these things.
     
  8. Jun 9, 2008
  9. GaryWatson

    GaryWatson Dormant account

    Occupation:
    Marketing Consultant
    Location:
    Europe
    I dont trust online blackjack full stop, but I have played live for a long time and sometimes I feel the dealer has a few extra aces up her sleave. Its just one of those games. It will drive you nuts. The live gave produce rediculous runs of bad luck. I dont think you can prove anything by requesting a hand history, although I feel it should be readily available.

    Blackjack is just one of those games, you need to take the rough with the smooth. Everyone feels cheated at some time but it doesnt necessarily mean cheating has occurred.

    The Internet game has more scope to make you feel that way but you would feel that way at times with a live dealer.

    Either quit or continue, its your choice but analyzing the hands is a pointless job other than ironing out your mistakes.
     
  10. Jun 9, 2008
  11. poser

    poser Experienced Member

    Occupation:
    Student
    Location:
    Hamburg
    Well,

    2 days before today, I asked again for the history.

    Yesterday, my complete history was unavailable !!

    Today, my old hitory is gone and the part that was missing before is now there and only this part.

    Too strange. (And I'm not sure if this is not a "selfmade" history..)


    ::: Normally, I do trust online BJ. And it is not the fact THAT the dealer won so many hands, I saw this so often and it is normal coincidence. It was the way HOW the dealer won those hands and that my brother had the same thing one day later with the exact same bonus type and starting money. Remember, 80% of the BJs of the dealer started with a face card as the first card and he drawed an ace on it.... If you see this 3 times in 5 hands, you become mad, and if if it then doesn't stop you believe the game is broken:::
     
  12. Jun 9, 2008
  13. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Somewhere in eternity
    BetVoyager

    Just to compare: I can see every spin immediately after I made it :)
     
  14. Jun 13, 2008
  15. vinylweatherman

    vinylweatherman You type well loads CAG MM

    Occupation:
    STILL At Leisure
    Location:
    United Kingdom

    If no records are available, how can there possibly be any way to audit for fairness any of the games?

    What would happen if the game went the other way, and the PLAYER got an endless stream of Blackjacks. Would the casino then suddenly accept that the game was "broken", and more to the point, would they then be able to conjour up these "lost" hand histories to prove the point.

    This seems to show one thing,

    Chartwell = avoid


    I have played Chartwell Blackjack before, and have not noticed such a bad streak - only ones that I have seen elsewhere.

    The ONLY place I have experienced consistently bad Blackjack is at the defunct "Lucky Chance" casino, which had a bonus that was impossible to lose on if their BJ was fair (rules gave it a 0.451% house edge, yet you got the bonus at a rate of 2.5% - should have been impossible to lose!).
    I was able to get all my hand histories, but they went defunct before I got around to looking into it.

    I was hoping to work out how the software cycled, so that I might be able to crack it;)

    Casinos that have non-random games can have non-random results, and one of these days, they will get taken to the cleaners by a savvy player or three, and will face having to admit to the world their games are not random, or quietly pay up.
     
  16. Jun 13, 2008
  17. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    That is exactly my problem. Having lost more than 5000 in one hour and finishing 4 SD's under normal (1 in 10000 odds), I would at least expect to get the complete history to review and analyze it. But they said they are unable to send it to me.

    For me 5000 is a LOT of money and I can't simply walk away before I have had the chance to do a statistical analysis of the results I was dealt.
     
  18. Jun 13, 2008
  19. Roar

    Roar Dormant account

    Occupation:
    SE
    Location:
    Philippines
    That is the $64 question. They claim the games are 'fair' but are unable to furnish play data. It makes you wonder what the monthly audits are built upon.

    Alice in Wonderland.

    .
     
  20. Jun 13, 2008
  21. Jufo

    Jufo Three-toed sloth

    Occupation:
    Teacher
    Location:
    Finland
    I asked Betfair to send me their overall results from Zero Blackjack from April and May (total wagers and total returns) but of course they didn't send that data either. They advertise that game as zero house edge so they should be able to prove that they make no overall profit from that game.
     
  22. Jun 13, 2008
  23. SlotMonster

    SlotMonster SoftSwiss Representative webmeister

    Occupation:
    Manager
    Location:
    Somewhere in eternity
    Where is Red Army?
    It would be pleasure to give us a sign that he at least have red this thread and working with the issue :what:
     
  24. Jun 14, 2008
  25. maxd

    maxd Complaints (PAB) Manager Staff Member

    Occupation:
    The PAB Guy
    Location:
    Saltirelandia
    Good question. Unfortunately it seems our boy is AWOL.
     
  26. Jun 14, 2008
  27. Roar

    Roar Dormant account

    Occupation:
    SE
    Location:
    Philippines

    I think it has been about a week and it is possible big Red Army has been otherwise engaged (sickness, on assignment, seminar attending, travelling).

    But.......

    BetFair has already declined to further repsond to the play-log requesting player. So on the evidence that is rapidly accumulating one might be persuaded to the view that big Red has done a runner.

    When the going gets tough .........it's time to show BetFair the casino accreditation exit door.

    >>
     

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