Betfair Bonus Fiasco

[raj]

The threat to white listing advertising appears to be a credible one and is being increasingly picked up by UK media, quoting senior government sources and the Culture Secretary himself.

Months back the Brit government back then intimated that it might have to take action on offshore outfits accessing the Brit market by advertising yet avoiding UK taxation; they were clearly irritated by Ladbrokes and Will Hill taking their online ops to Gibraltar to get a more competitive tax deal. As it turns out, Gibraltar has subsequently hiked its tax trate, but it's still more operator-friendly that the Brit one.

All the reports currently going the rounds have senior government people suggesting that 'white listed' companies interested in accessing the UK market will have to meet the requirements of the UK Gambling Commission and take out a 'secondary' licence....the operators aren't going to like the additional costs, but it's a big market that they will be reluctant to let go, even given the wide nature of internet advertising potential as an alternative to bring in UK punters.

Latest report are suggesting this new regime could be in place as early as within the next two months - around the end of March 2011.

WOW!! That is major!! and by end of March, would like to think they will follow through with this though I really cant see it happening.

Cue.....loads of industry bods taking MPs out to dinner and on expensive junkets to explain after a few bottles of top notch champagne why its not such a good idea...

Raj

 

[raj]

Back to the topic though....

Is there any indication of BF doing the right thing, or indeed anything to resolve the situation.

Mistakes happen, and can be put right with a bit of honesty and a willingness to accept that smoothing things over may mean biting the bullet and parting with some of the company profits for the long term benefit.

Reputation is everything in this game. I have a feeling if BF choose to continue to bury their head in the sand, cease winings and blame players they may regret making that decision for many years to come. BF are now being blacklisted, warnings against playing issued and shunned by affiliates left right and centre.
That sort of thing will stay online forever and most players are a lot more careful these days where they play and deposit.

I wouldnt want to be BFs affiliate manager right now!!

BF CEO "why are we getting no new sign ups?"

BF affiliate manger "Sir, our name is mud , its all over any respected internet forum, no one will touch us with a barge pole"

BF CEO "damn ....we would have gotten away with it if it were't for those pesky kids"

Raj

 

[Webzcas]

Latest report are suggesting this new regime could be in place as early as within the next two months - around the end of March 2011.

Have you got any information on how this affects sites if it indeed does, which are hosted in the UK which carry advertisements for casinos?

 

[raj]

This whole new legislation issue is probably worthy of a thread of its own for discussion rather than tagged onto the Betfair fiasco where it may be missed.

Raj

 

[daywalker]

Back to the topic though....

Is there any indication of BF doing the right thing, or indeed anything to resolve the situation.

From what I can see Betfair consider the matter closed and are happy with their actions.

Lets just hope anyone who is taking them to court is successful. I think anyone taking them on deserves a lot of credit for doing so and I wish the the best of luck.

 

[jetset]

Have you got any information on how this affects sites if it indeed does, which are hosted in the UK which carry advertisements for casinos?

The media reports thus far have been centred mainly on conventional (ie non-Internet) media, but logically digital advertising too would have to be covered to make the new legislation effective.

A lot of the pressure is coming from Brit companies themselves, who are resentful that competitors in other (white-listed) jurisdictions can access 'their' market without any of the disadvantages in terms of UK Commission licensing hassles and Brit taxation/levies.

It's a competitive thing, because many of the offshore jurisdictions have more tax-friendly rates.

I can understand the concern of UK webmasters who take on internet advertising from online gambling companies, but it is not at present clear how the drafters will treat that sector. Perhaps they will initially focus on the main media, penalising the big gambling companies that refuse to indulge in 'secondary' licensing.

But I would imagine in terms of equal treatment for all, and in the interests of making the new legislation water-tight, the role of online gambling websites based in the UK would have to be examined.

And even if they are considered, I'm sure the legal drafters appreciate that the Internet is a big place serviced by companies everywhere, and Brits freely access it for information, making any sort of restriction farcical at best.

On the positive side for webmasters, those companies that decide not to cooperate with this new Brit initiative could well have to rely more on affiliate activity to promote themselves if they are excluded from advertising in the UK.

One also wonders what the white listed jurisdictions are going to do about this - I suspect there'll be some special pleadings coming from them, too because at least part of their appeal is the white listing status they enjoy.

 

[pokeraddict]

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Quite a few players are complaining that Betfair has been stealing money out of their poker accounts and it has been going on since Jan 11.

 

[ergopro]

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Quite a few players are complaining that Betfair has been stealing money out of their poker accounts and it has been going on since Jan 11.

They're just probably raising money to pay Joaopc56

 

[hitobito2005]

2. People have pursued this in the courts and have been advised to stay quiet

Court action takes months and months. I doubt there have even been any hearings over this yet, assuming people have submitted a claim to the courts.

I will be doing this myself, but i'm unable to until the Spring.

 

[pokeraddict]

Court action takes months and months. I doubt there have even been any hearings over this yet, assuming people have submitted a claim to the courts.

I will be doing this myself, but i'm unable to until the Spring.

Right, I meant that the lawyers have advised the victims not to discuss the case until it is resolved.

 

[vinylweatherman]

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Quite a few players are complaining that Betfair has been stealing money out of their poker accounts and it has been going on since Jan 11.

It's a completely different issue, but is being handled badly, and the "Bonus fiasco" is now coming back to bite Betfair in the ass because people are quoting the issue as reference material in the wider discussion of "fairness" from Betfair in resolving such issues.

 

[henritabo]

Hello fellas. Just found casinomeister doing a search on google. I was looking for a place where I can report what happened to me yesterday in Betfair. I was shocked reading this entire thread and would like to tell my story.

So yesterday I deposited 1000€ in betfair casino, awarding their 500€ bonus as they advertise on their website. Everything ran fine. I played the usual games I prefer. Blackjack, some slot machines and casino holdem. It wasn´t long until I could withdraw my money because I made huge bets. The bonus is very good and I stoped loosing money on ladbrokes and thought about give betfair a try (I wish I knew this thread and this site before I deposited 1000 euro in there).

I withdrew 1532€ from their casino and then 1532€ from their sportsbook to my moneybookers account. However today I received an e-mail from betfair asking for my documents again. That´s ok, just some security measurement I thought. I sent them my documents again, they re-opened my account and sent me an e-mail saying the 500€ casino bonus was debited from my balance, so my balance is now 1032€. They said I played using unnaceptable patterns (?)... what´s this? If I lost money would them give it back? Just to let you know my story, not a big deal but it´s another one.

Henrique Taborda

 

[vinylweatherman]

Hello fellas. Just found casinomeister doing a search on google. I was looking for a place where I can report what happened to me yesterday in Betfair. I was shocked reading this entire thread and would like to tell my story.

So yesterday I deposited 1000€ in betfair casino, awarding their 500€ bonus as they advertise on their website. Everything ran fine. I played the usual games I prefer. Blackjack, some slot machines and casino holdem. It wasn´t long until I could withdraw my money because I made huge bets. The bonus is very good and I stoped loosing money on ladbrokes and thought about give betfair a try (I wish I knew this thread and this site before I deposited 1000 euro in there).

I withdrew 1532€ from their casino and then 1532€ from their sportsbook to my moneybookers account. However today I received an e-mail from betfair asking for my documents again. That´s ok, just some security measurement I thought. I sent them my documents again, they re-opened my account and sent me an e-mail saying the 500€ casino bonus was debited from my balance, so my balance is now 1032€. They said I played using unnaceptable patterns (?)... what´s this? If I lost money would them give it back? Just to let you know my story, not a big deal but it´s another one.

Henrique Taborda

This shows they just don't care about proper behaviour. They didn't like the result of these wagers, so decided to "charge back" their €500 offer. It shows they have learned NOTHING from the earlier fiasco, and are perfectly willing to do the same thing over and over again.
They believe that by splitting off the casino division, and hosting it in Malta, they can snub their noses at the law. This is how they dealt with the earlier issue, they said it had to be pursued through Malta, who are in it for the money, and do NOT have a proper system in place for ensuring PLAYERS get a fair deal.

Unfortunately, the new UK government have decided this "scam" needs looking into - not just Betfair, but the whole "abuse of the system" perpetrated by operators who have decided to hole up in offshore havens, yet gain full access and acceptance to the UK market whilst NOT being bound by UK laws and regulations, many of which are designed to protect the consumer from "sharp practice". Naturally, the BIGGEST incentive for the government is the TAX AVOIDANCE nature of this arrangement, profits are generated from UK players, but NOTHING makes it to the UK treasury by way of consumption and profit taxes, yet the UK government has to pick up the costs when things turn sour for players, who need help for gambling addiction, and help when they are scammed out of their money.

 

[henritabo]

Ok, I see your point but isn´t betfair the most accredited gambling site around? I mean, everyone say good things about betfair, pinnacle for example. How can them act like this? If you loose good luck next time, we take your money. If you win, sorry you can´t win give us our money back. I think it´s unnaceptable. What they mean by "patterns"? Is it some game in wich we can´t wager the bonus? that´s fine, but at least say wich games we can´t play. I looked into their terms and you can wager the bonus in black jack and slot machines, each one with his own percentage. I just can´t understand.

 

[pokeraddict]

All of this negative press is finding its way into SERPs. It's just a matter of time before this finds its way into major searches for Betfair. Also if UK forces the issue that casinos can't run and hide in tax havens I would imagine this issue will cause some major problems as I doubt UK players will be quiet there. These guys have become as scummy as it gets and it won't be long before the whole world knows.

 

[raj]

Its all kinda puzzling, certainly from a sports book point of view there is no better place to bet than Betfair.....why are they doing this ?? They HAD quite a good reputation but it is quickly crumbling away thanks to a couple of bad decisions.

You kinda expect this kind of attitiude from some lil clip joint casino in Costa Rica , but an established and reputable firm like Betfair should know better.

Raj

 

[Mousey]

They said I played using unnaceptable patterns

Ok... who kidnapped the Betfair management and dumped a roomful of Rival flunkies into the Betfair offices?

This whole Betfair thing is so... well... bizarre....

 

[hausse222]

I see that betfair continues to act as rouge as a casino can act.
As a consequence i will cashout my betting-role and will give another site, like
betdaq a chance.
I have the feeling that my money is not longer safe at betfair.

 

[uki]

Originally Posted by pokeraddict
This seems to have gotten quiet. Nobody has reported getting paid yet it seems. So....

1. Betfair has paid some people but were told to keep quiet
2. People have pursued this in the courts and have been advised to stay quiet
3. People have given up

Let's hope it is 1 or 2. Let's hear from some people that have prevailed sooner rather than later.

Court action takes months and months. I doubt there have even been any hearings over this yet, assuming people have submitted a claim to the courts.

I will be doing this myself, but i'm unable to until the Spring.

I'm taking the court route and they are planning to defend themselves.

'taking months'.

Nop. If you are in the UK you can use something called Money Claim On Line (google it). This it the new version of Small Claims Court. Apply on line, pay £100 fee (and thats it) an they have 14 days to respond.

Don't need to get solicitors etc involved.

For anyone who is still chasing this, then fill in an MCOL. easy peasy.

 

[GrandMaster]

I'm taking the court route and they are planning to defend themselves.

'taking months'.

Nop. If you are in the UK you can use something called Money Claim On Line (google it). This it the new version of Small Claims Court. Apply on line, pay £100 fee (and thats it) an they have 14 days to respond.

Don't need to get solicitors etc involved.

For anyone who is still chasing this, then fill in an MCOL. easy peasy.

If the defendant files a defence, it can take months before your case goes to court, and even if you win you may have to spend further time and effort to enforce the judgment.

 

[henritabo]

Betfair sent me this e-mail regarding the situation.

"Dear Sir/Madam

Please be advised that following an investigation into your activity in the Betfair Casino, we have concluded that your bets were carried out with the express purpose of abusing the bonus offered.

This is in accordance to the bonus terms and conditions which states that “Betfair also reserves the right not to pay any bonus to customers that it suspects to be abusing this promotion.”

Please be advised that your €1,000 has been returned to your card but the rest of the funds will not be provided as these are bonus money which was obtained against our Terms and Conditions.

We will not be entering into any further correspondence with you.

Kind Regards


Investigations Team"

So we can´t make profit in betfair casino? ok... I thought betfair was the most accredited ones.

 

[sambaEah]

How did you play your funds?

Large blackjack hands and then slots?

 

[uki]

If the defendant files a defence, it can take months before your case goes to court, and even if you win you may have to spend further time and effort to enforce the judgment.

Well small claims does not take that long. Even if it is 6 months then well worth it to get my 4 grand back and to demonstrate to the world that they were in the wrong and stole money.

 

[threescatters]

This is a very sad turnout of this whole thing, betfair are now acting mega rogue to everyone. UK accrediation means nothing...I hope their staff are not so cocky that they work for a great firm now.....betfair are nothing but thieves.

 

[vinylweatherman]

Betfair sent me this e-mail regarding the situation.

"Dear Sir/Madam

Please be advised that following an investigation into your activity in the Betfair Casino, we have concluded that your bets were carried out with the express purpose of abusing the bonus offered.

This is in accordance to the bonus terms and conditions which states that “Betfair also reserves the right not to pay any bonus to customers that it suspects to be abusing this promotion.”

Please be advised that your €1,000 has been returned to your card but the rest of the funds will not be provided as these are bonus money which was obtained against our Terms and Conditions.

We will not be entering into any further correspondence with you.

Kind Regards


Investigations Team"

So we can´t make profit in betfair casino? ok... I thought betfair was the most accredited ones.

Are these terms compliant with the unfair Business practices legislation of 2008? If not, they stand to LOSE these court cases. This act outlaws a number of business practices, and this is regardless of whether they are "clearly stated in the T & C" or not.

A vague "bonus abuse pattern" term would NOT stand up in court as it is "unfair" because it does not specify WHAT the player can & cannot do, and allows the casino to void winnings after the result for whatever reason it wants.

The court may decide that such a bonus term is merely a device for making it against the rules to win when playing with a bonus, and this would be a problem because of the way bonuses and payouts are advertised, with considerable emphasis on the winning, rather than the playing.

They are going to say they will defend the case, since if they don't they lose automatically. Saying they will defend buys them time, and a chance to consider their options, and get advice. If they think they stand to lose, they will probably try to negotiate a settlement.

If they think they will win, but are wrong, they are in BIG trouble. Losing a court case WILL make this story go "mainstream", and they will lose control of the situation.

Take a look at how the banks "shat themselves" during the arguments over charges, and first tried settling out of court to everybody who called their bluff and served them with a small claims summons. Eventually, it got out of control, and a "supercomplaint" was brought by the regulators. This actually turned out quite well for the banks, since a compromise was reached, new laws, but no liabilty to pay back past charges under most circumstances.

The UK government is already considering blocking offshore casinos that don't meet UK standards, and losing a court case against a player could cause Betfair to be "kicked out of the UK" under any new rules. This would be a total disaster for them.