Betfair Bonus Fiasco

I dont know about laws in other EU countries but here in Germany a company or a private user can make a chargeback within 2 days or so . Imagine you make a bank transfer to a wrong account so you can charge back money within a small time frame.

Maybe thats why your bank allowed the chargeback from betfair .

Not in this case. It was to the CORRECT account, and the money is now in dispute. Where there is a dispute, one party CANNOT just take matters into their own hands.

Whilst we can make a chargeback on credit cards, the MERCHANT involved gets a right to dispute the chargeback BEFORE it is made, and we have to show some evidence that our claim is valid.

Betfair have not just taken the WINNINGS back, they have taken EVERYTHING, deposits and all, since part of this €32,000 would have been the deposit money. Even if Betfair win their case for voiding the bets, they have STOLEN the stake money too, which was NEVER theirs in the first place, since they didn't actually WIN it.
 
I did everything I could to solve this situation. Even if I never get my money back at least I want to hurt betfair in some way even if it´s only in Portugal. Next step is inform all media I can here in Portugal about this. I won´t give up from this and if I have to take this to court I will pay a lawyer no problem.

However every company I contaced here in Portugal said the problem is between me and my bank, not between me and betfair. Betfair were the thieves, bank allowed the thief to take 32k from my bank account. 3-4 working days left to have a reply from my bank :) I will keep you informed.

So, your initial deposit was €300. Now we know that betfair STOLE €300 from you, rather than simply "voiding your bets" - which is what they have claimed to have been doing.

This shows that Betfair are NOT simply "confiscating bonuses and winnings", but DEPOSITS as well. The terms they are using to do this do NOT cater for the confiscation of DEPOSITS for "irregular betting patterns".

Having accused PLAYERS of violating the terms, Betfair have now been shown to have violated their own terms as well.

How many others have had DEPOSITS confiscated, not just bonus and winnings.

Whilst this was pretty extreme "advantage play", the incompetence of Betfair meant that it was not actually a violation of the terms. There WERE no "irregular betting patterns" at all, it was purely down to NORMAL betting on a combination of game and promotion where it was IMPOSSIBLE for a player with any degree of ability to LOSE.

and yeah, the casino issue is on betfair, guess I should have checked there first:

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Wonder how long befor ethey get downgraded further, they were downgraded for a $120 issue from A+ to A so I imagine for an issue this massive.....

It has already been said that downgrades don't happen as a "knee jerk reaction", but after all possible channels for resolution have been exhausted, and a chance given for the sportsbook to make amends and admit it's errors, and above all take responsibility.

At present, Betfair are voiding play simply because they didn't like the result. I am sure THEY would make a big fuss if a PLAYER issued a chargeback for losses simply because they "didn't like the result" of their wagers.

It's one law for them, and another for us. No wonder trust in the industry is on the decline.
 
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Might also be a good place to go to file a dispute/adjudication form, as betfair is a member as well as a number of other very legitimate online and B&M sportsbooks/casinos/lotteries/betting exchanges etc.
Compleate and utter waste of time. IBAS want nothing to do with this case what so ever. The conversation on the phone I had with them went:

'Hi, I want to make a complaint about BetFair, can you help'
"Is that relating to the Happy Hour promotion? If so then it is a matter for the LGA."
"Er, yes it is HH, but the money was taken from my exchange acc"
"Sorry, we can't help. Speak to the LGA."

I had further emails with them on this matter and they won't touch this one with a barge pole.
 
IBAS are for Sportsbooks, they don't handle any gaming complaints from what I know, they're more based around Rule 4's and such.

Malta are rubbish, I don't touch a Casino licensed out there because they're only in it for a few quid. The likes of Gibraltar, IoM and Alderney actually do their jobs and control the operators. They take any complaint very seriously too
 
The LGA is not set up to assist players - it's to provide services to casino operations. The problem with complaining to Malta is that they have no expertise in dealing with players much less casino bonus schemes. You might as well complain to a house plant.

The ball is clearly in Betfair's court. What they ought to do is admit that they made an error and take the hit. Just imagine the positive reverberations that would ripple through the industry if they actually did this. Other casinos much smaller than them have set a precedence of making up for poorly written or failed bonus offers. Betfair should have done their homework and learned something from their competitors' mistakes. But apparently, Betfair's casino team is too inexperienced to handle this catastrophe appropriately. Unfortunately, I don't see players having any recourse but to take this into their own hands.
 
The LGA is not set up to assist players - it's to provide services to casino operations. The problem with complaining to Malta is that they have no expertise in dealing with players much less casino bonus schemes. You might as well complain to a house plant.

The ball is clearly in Betfair's court. What they ought to do is admit that they made an error and take the hit. Just imagine the positive reverberations that would ripple through the industry if they actually did this. Other casinos much smaller than them have set a precedence of making up for poorly written or failed bonus offers. Betfair should have done their homework and learned something from their competitors' mistakes. But apparently, Betfair's casino team is too inexperienced to handle this catastrophe appropriately. Unfortunately, I don't see players having any recourse but to take this into their own hands.

Quite,
Betfair are playing "hardball", and even seem to have "bought off" IBAS, since IBAS seemed to have a ready prepared line for such complaints, and even seemed to know what the issue was before the complainant gave details.

Clearly, these sportbook companies have decided to split their licensing arrangements so that they can divert casino complaints to a non-responsive jurisdiction. Had the casino been licensed in the UK, Alderney, Gibraltar, or even "New Kahwanake", they would have had a hard time with this.

Players need to "play hardball" themselves. Don't just go after Betfair, try to bring MALTA down by exposing the complete lack of player protection there. Players could try to help the Kahnawake keep improving so that they can make it onto the UK whitelist, which could then encourage (with a little pressure from players) casinos that moved to Malta in order to be able to advertise within the EU, to make the move back to Kahnawake and STILL retain advertising rights, BUT also have the confidence of players that there is effective help for players who have a dispute.

Malta could even be taken to court for failure to perform it's duties. As I mentioned previously, individuals CAN go as high as the EU court of justice, and WIN, and lower courts would be reluctant to overturn such a judgement.

Players within the EU should try to use their consumer rights to the full, and take action in their HOME countries, rather than Malta. The English courts DID agree to hear an English player's case against William Hill, even though William Hill tried the "it's an issue for Malta and the LGA" line.

Any player with a negative balance should ignore requests to give money back, and should tell Betfair to take them to court (they won't - they will ban the player for life, but only take "unofficial" action to recover the money, such as writing or phoning - if they overstep the mark they could be up on CRIMINAL charges).
 
compromise solution?

As a US player, I don't even know exactly how the BetFair bonus worked (but I have a pretty good idea). It seems to me the bonus was very poorly conceived and some people took extreme advantage of it. Anyway, does anyone here think a compromise solution would be reasonable? Sort of like all winners on that day get to keep an amount equal to say double or triple their deposits and all losing depositors get a rfull refund. Does anyone here think that is a good idea for both sides?

Just curious what people think of this idea.
 
As a US player, I don't even know exactly how the BetFair bonus worked (but I have a pretty good idea). It seems to me the bonus was very poorly conceived and some people took extreme advantage of it. Anyway, does anyone here think a compromise solution would be reasonable? Sort of like all winners on that day get to keep an amount equal to say double or triple their deposits and all losing depositors get a full refund. Does anyone here think that is a good idea for both sides?

Just curious what people think of this idea.
No I don't think it's a good idea.

Frankly I'm sick and tired of everything being in favour of the casinos.
If you accidentally bet $500 instead of $5 on a hand of Blackjack and lost it, do you think the casino would give your money back because you made a mistake?

The casino made the mistake, the casino should pay every player every penny they won IMO.

If they refuse, they should at least give everyone who LOST their deposits back too.
Not going to happen... :(

KK
 
No thoughts on appropriate jurisdiction but just want to counter the suggestion that Betfair's Maltese operations amount to a mailbox. They have a very tangible brick and mortar presence here and are a major employer - the apartment I live in was previously rented by them.

Also just to point out the LGA != Maltese courts. The LGA as a licensing body has the ability to suspend licences and impose specific fines for various things but they cannot issue legally binding judgements. From a players' perspective they are at best an ombudsman, or more realistically are there to run interference and to keep issues out of court. Unless Betfair have a massive change of heart a case like this would almost certainly be eventually settled in a civil court and in that case the LGA can be ignored from the outset and civil action brought directly.
 
That´s what IBAS replied to me:

"Dear Mr *******



I write further to receipt of your completed submission which outlined your complaint against Betfair’s casino site.



Matters dealing with the integrity or management of casino-related products should be raised with the Maltese Lotteries and Gaming Authority as outlined in Betfair’s terms and conditions.



The contact details for the LGA are as follows: La Concorde, Abate Rigord Street, Ta'Xbiex XBX, 1121, Malta. Tel +356 21316590/1/3/4l; Fax +356 21316599; Email info@lga.org.mt



I am genuinely sorry this Service can be of no assistance but trust the above helps in some way.



Regards



Danny Cracknell

Adjudication Manager

IBAS "

useless.
 
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Just a quick reality check here peeps.

Anyone who wants to get their money back should obtain independent legal advice from a LAWYER.

AFAIK there aren't any here so anything said should be treated as conjecture at best. I think you will find that the matter is far more complicated in a legal sense than it appears.

I'm still hoping Buttfair come to their senses and pay up.
 
No thoughts on appropriate jurisdiction but just want to counter the suggestion that Betfair's Maltese operations amount to a mailbox. They have a very tangible brick and mortar presence here and are a major employer - the apartment I live in was previously rented by them.

Also just to point out the LGA != Maltese courts. The LGA as a licensing body has the ability to suspend licences and impose specific fines for various things but they cannot issue legally binding judgements. From a players' perspective they are at best an ombudsman, or more realistically are there to run interference and to keep issues out of court. Unless Betfair have a massive change of heart a case like this would almost certainly be eventually settled in a civil court and in that case the LGA can be ignored from the outset and civil action brought directly.

The LGA are noted for taking 3 months or more just to confirm RECEIPT of a complaint, so as CM said, "you might as well complain to a houseplant".

You are probably right that the LGA can be kept out of this, and strong claims should go straight to court.

Legal advice should also be sought where the claims are substantial. Failure to follow procedure can sometimes damage a case, so the advice might be to submit a complaint first to the LGA, BUT if (or when:rolleyes:) they don't reply, proceed with the court option. You would then be able to show the court that you DID first try the appropriate channels, but got nowhere. Somewhere on the LGA site should be a set of guidelines, one of which should be how long they are allowed to take in replying to a complaint. If no such guide exists, then it is down to what a court would consider "reasonable". In most cases, 28 days should cover it.

Just a quick reality check here peeps.

Anyone who wants to get their money back should obtain independent legal advice from a LAWYER.

AFAIK there aren't any here so anything said should be treated as conjecture at best. I think you will find that the matter is far more complicated in a legal sense than it appears.

I'm still hoping Buttfair come to their senses and pay up.

Players should FIRST see if they can bring the case in their home country. This is probably only going to be a serious option for players within the EU, since Malta is within the EU, and consumers are not just protected by Maltese law, but EU wide laws regarding business vs consumer issues.

Betfair would prefer action to be taken in Malta, since they would be "playing at home", which as any sports fan knows, gives one the advantage.

It just needs ONE case to go against Betfair for them to be forced to reconsider their approach.

The LGA may even take notice because failure to respond means they are not "running interference" for operators to keep matters out of court.

If players take Betfair on, they are likely to force a compromise agreement, which although not full payment, would be a good deal better than the current position, AND Betfair will have paid a heavy price for being FORCED into making deals, rather than doing so voluntarily.
 

:thumbsup:

I'm still hoping Buttfair come to their senses and pay up.

Won't happen. It's been too long, they're trying to ride the storm but like Bryan said, they should have just taken it on the chin. Someone has cocked up big time in Betfair land, I can't even find out what the name of the Casino Manager is there, too many employees on Linkedin!
 
As a US player, I don't even know exactly how the BetFair bonus worked (but I have a pretty good idea). It seems to me the bonus was very poorly conceived and some people took extreme advantage of it. Anyway, does anyone here think a compromise solution would be reasonable? Sort of like all winners on that day get to keep an amount equal to say double or triple their deposits and all losing depositors get a rfull refund. Does anyone here think that is a good idea for both sides?

Just curious what people think of this idea.


I think they should pay all the winners in full. Period.
 
You would be able to claim in the UK against Betfair under the Forum Of Convenence Rules in the UK

The relevant case law is here


House of Lords in Lubbe and Others v Cape Plc (2000).
Norwich Pharmacal Co v Customs and Excise Comrs (1974).
Meredith v Hodges (1807) 2 Bos & PNR 453; Price v Harwood (1811) 3 Camp Walker v Willoughby (1816) 6 Taunt 530; Reeves v Slater (1827) 7 B & C
Cox v Cannon (183 4 Bing NC
Fisher v Magnay (1843) 5 Man & G 778;
Oakland Metal Co Ltd v D Benaim & Co Ltd[1953] 2 QB 261, [1953] 2 All ER 650; cf Hewlett v LCC(190 72 JP 136.
 
No I don't think it's a good idea.

Frankly I'm sick and tired of everything being in favour of the casinos.
If you accidentally bet $500 instead of $5 on a hand of Blackjack and lost it, do you think the casino would give your money back because you made a mistake?

The casino made the mistake, the casino should pay every player every penny they won IMO.

If they refuse, they should at least give everyone who LOST their deposits back too.
Not going to happen... :(

KK

I don't disagree, and yes, at the LEAST give everyone who lost their deposits back. That was my suggestion, give all losing deposits back and give winners a reasonable multiple of their deposit.
 
I disagree, giving money back is something that a Casino will never do, regardless of what happens on another persons account and rightly so.

Their logic will be that you lost and therefore didn't profit from breaking their terms. Those that won, in their eyes did break the terms and so they have reclaimed the money.

I agree with not having to pay back losing players, but I don't agree with not paying winning players when a mistake is made.
 
I disagree, giving money back is something that a Casino will never do, regardless of what happens on another persons account and rightly so.

Their logic will be that you lost and therefore didn't profit from breaking their terms. Those that won, in their eyes did break the terms and so they have reclaimed the money.

I agree with not having to pay back losing players, but I don't agree with not paying winning players when a mistake is made.

The only truly fair thing to do is to pay their winning players, and I don't think those players should settle for anything less. However, if they were refunding losing players at the same time as reclaiming winnings you could at least say they were making a legitimate effort to reset balances as if the promo never happened, which is what they claim to be doing. As things stand, they are making a PROFIT from their fuck up, or at least will be if they successfully reclaim everything. They have freerolled their players, which amounts to nothing less than outright theft. Again, I don't mean to suggest players should settle for anything less than being paid in these circumstances, but what they are actually doing is even worse than just reclaiming winnings.

No inside knowledge but just based on the fact that most people are reasonable people I'm willing to bet many folks at Betfair agree that they should be paying out here, but this policy continues due to some stubborn / business inept bean counter higher up in the decision making process who can't see the bigger picture. I'm still hopeful that player pressure and the like will eventually triumph here and Betfair will change their tune.
 
No doubt more to do with their latest Half Yearly Report than this fiasco but interesting to note that the Betfair share price absolutely tanked today.

Down over 15% on the day to less than £10. This is after having initially come to the market a few weeks ago at an opening £15.

That's some loss against a buoyant market! :eek2:
 

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